“Truth? You can't handle the truth!”

[M.I.K.]

As for dictators i wouldnt support any dictator by default like i didnt support Saddam Hussein and if it was North Korea i wouldnt support KimJungIl but because Gadaffi and the Gadaffi regime have positive aspects i support them on that basis but not on the basis of abuses of power.

Okay... What are the positive aspects?

[The Legendary Shark]

President Museveni cites positives for Gaddafi:  http://rosebellkagumire.com/2011/03/21/part-two-president-museveni-cites-positives-for-gaddafi/

[Peter Wolf]

As for dictators i wouldnt support any dictator by default like i didnt support Saddam Hussein and if it was North Korea i wouldnt support KimJungIl but because Gadaffi and the Gadaffi regime have positive aspects i support them on that basis but not on the basis of abuses of power.

Okay... What are the positive aspects?

Why dont you go and look them up for yourself apart from those that i have already listed in this thread like the issuance of debt free currency or the funding of overseas students or the investment back into Libya and its people or the irrigation project or the possible introduction of a gold backed currency or the goodwill extended towards the rest of Africa etc etc etc

I am not an advocate of dictatorships or dictators as all i am doing is pointing out some facts.As for the negatives of Gadaffi and the Gadaffi regime i have read up on it and i waiting to talk to my friend as it were who has first hand insight into the goings on inside the Gadaffi regime and the prisons etc etc but my friend is presently unavailable so that will have to wait.

I also said that i support Gadaffi because he is standing up to the western Plutocrats that want to take over Libya and i like the fact that he spoke his mind to the UN and told them some home truths.

Someone else could always post some of the negative aspects that are factual in the meantime befiore i do.

[M.I.K.]

So the positives are that he's friends with his neighbours, good with money and doesn't like people that you don't like?

What about decades of backing international terrorist groups, including the IRA?  I presume you don't advocate that either?

[The Legendary Shark]

Since when were people either good or bad? Things all seem so simple, these days. So cut and dried. This is a good guy, this is a bad guy.

He's a mass of contradictions, dichotomies, mysteries, experiences, emotions, beliefs and knowledge just like the rest of us. In short, he's just as human as anyone else and just dismissing him as one thing or another makes him two dimensional. It de-humanizes him. Makes him easy to dismiss, easy to hate. God forbid our perfect leaders would attack human beings like you or me. No, they only attack bad people - not real people.

[Peter Wolf]

So the positives are that he's friends with his neighbours, good with money and doesn't like people that you don't like?

What about decades of backing international terrorist groups, including the IRA?  I presume you don't advocate that either?

You presumed correctly.

The upshot of this fucking pointless conversation that is a waste of my time is that you can only condemn or focus on the negative or else you are met with a chorus of disapproval.

[M.I.K.]

No, Peter. The upshot is that you said that you support a man who is directly responsible for the deaths of innocent people. If you can't see why some would have a problem with that, then there's something very, very wrong with the way you think.

Since when were people either good or bad? Things all seem so simple, these days. So cut and dried. This is a good guy, this is a bad guy.

He's a mass of contradictions, dichotomies, mysteries, experiences, emotions, beliefs and knowledge just like the rest of us. In short, he's just as human as anyone else and just dismissing him as one thing or another makes him two dimensional. It de-humanizes him. Makes him easy to dismiss, easy to hate. God forbid our perfect leaders would attack human beings like you or me. No, they only attack bad people - not real people.

I am well aware of this. I judge people by their actions, not by what list some other three-dimensional political human being git happens to have them on at the time.

[The Legendary Shark]

Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron - all directly responsible for the deaths of innocent people. I'm not defending Gadaffi on this point - but I wouldn't defend any of the first three either.

To be honest, I don't think any of our leaders deserve our complete respect.

[M.I.K.]

Gadaffi's been around longer.

[Peter Wolf]

No, Peter. The upshot is that you said that you support a man who is directly responsible for the deaths of innocent people. If you can't see why some would have a problem with that, then there's something very, very wrong with the way you think.

The upshot of this argument is just what i said it was.

I said very very clearly that i supported the positive aspects of Gadaffi and the Gadaffi regime but NOT the negative aspects which means that i dont support the deaths of innocent people.

Its not my problem that you are thick or that you cant read plain English or that you can only see things in simplified black and white polarised terms.You are not even interested in the subject other than to criticise my comments with your simplistic sanctomonious view of things and you havent bothered to look any of it up as you reiterated my points without adding anything to the argument.

Boring timewaster.

Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron - all directly responsible for the deaths of innocent people. I'm not defending Gadaffi on this point - but I wouldn't defend any of the first three either.

To be honest, I don't think any of our leaders deserve our complete respect.

They all vote for them as well but thats alright because they are different but they do it in your name.The only way any of you dont sanction the murder of innocents abroad is if you dont vote for any of the 3 mainstream political parties so you can all go away and think about that.Anyone who pays taxes which is all of you in one way or another pays for the murder of innocent people.

Thats reality.





Not so whiter than white now are you ?

[M.I.K.]

Richmond was right.

[Richmond Clements]

Richmond was right.

Cool!

I said very very clearly that i supported the positive aspects of Gadaffi and the Gadaffi regime

And you have yet to tell us what they are. Instead of doing so you demanded we find out for ourselves. I dunno- do you think his best feature is selling guns and explosives to the IRA or perhaps the killing of policewoman in London? Which one do you think is his most positive aspect?


Or perhaps- and this is me just thinking out loud- your entire argument is full of shit.



(This is the bit you storm off in a faux huff claiming your being picked on and don't have to answer to anyone, by the way)

[TordelBack]

Which one do you think is his most positive aspect?

Maybe it's supporting Milosevic, another stalwart dictator who the west done wrong? 

(A man who was quick enough to use the UN Charter to oppose his trial for war crimes, BTW).

I think I can see what Peter is saying, that reducing everything to black and white ignores both the good that even the most villainous government can do, and the crimes that their opponents perpetrate, and that this tendency is particularly unfortunate when it falls in with the global party line.  But really, 'accentuating the positive' of a persistently nasty fucker like Gaddafi just undermines all that attempted subtlety by virtue of being ridiculous.

 

[Mikey]

I tried, I really did. I give you the information, even a picture which is easier than having to read. Is NO ONE interested in him driving a golf buggy about? I think that's important. Are alla yous fuckin thick?

Pfft!

I'm away to talk to someone who already agrees with me.

M.

[Peter Wolf]

Richmond was right.

Cool!

I said very very clearly that i supported the positive aspects of Gadaffi and the Gadaffi regime

And you have yet to tell us what they are. Instead of doing so you demanded we find out for ourselves. I dunno- do you think his best feature is selling guns and explosives to the IRA or perhaps the killing of policewoman in London? Which one do you think is his most positive aspect?


Or perhaps- and this is me just thinking out loud- your entire argument is full of shit.



(This is the bit you storm off in a faux huff claiming your being picked on and don't have to answer to anyone, by the way)

Its clear to me that you are entirely full of shit because you refuse to see my point.

Its you thinking out loud and your inability to understand my argument and your inability to argue against it properly.

You obviously cant read either since i have listed them in previous comments so go back and read them.You obviously cannot read because just above your comment i stated that i dont advocate funding and arming the IRA.Dont advocate means i dont support.Its very simple so go back and read it.As for demanding i didnt demand anything as i suggested that others could look them up for themselves.

As for storming off in a faux huff that is utter nonsense as i didnt storm off in a faux huff as i signed off and went to bed as it was late.

You are a complete arse sometimes like now when you argue in these threads.

Now i hyave to sign off and go and do some work so you can think that i am storming off in a faux huff as well if you like.