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Leaving Neverland

Started by JamesC, 07 March, 2019, 08:07:07 AM

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JOE SOAP

Quote from: Tjm86 on 13 March, 2019, 09:37:24 PM
Not wanting to return to the razorblade era, I'll have to forego the 'pleasure'.  Was Jackson 'guilty'?  Hard to tell.  Are those who lay claims against him fabricating?  Possibly.  Enough to discard complaints?  Fuck no.

If you ever manage to watch it, and to the very end, it just doesn't leave much room for doubt.

Even the seeming contradictictory past behaviour of the accusers so readily fits the psychology of adults who were groomed as kids. Like a bullet that never stops travelling inward, the grooming just doesn't stop for them and this realisation hits like a sledgehammer when they eventually try to have normal, grown-up relationships and start families.

In both cases the background noise they long tried to tune-out becomes deafening; blocks out everything else in their lives and the malaise manifests as acute, paralysing anxiety.

As a result their lives completely fall apart leaving them no choice but to let it out.


radiator

Well put.

It's extremely easy to hear, second hand, that both of the accusers had previously testified in Jackson's defence and simply write them off. I almost did myself. But that is why it is so important to watch the doc itself. You will go away from it understanding perfectly why they did it.

Watching old clips of Jackson carrying on now, I see them in a whole new light and it seems completely insane what was allowed to go on. I mean, jesus.

It's all so clear now, his whole deal, the whole persona he projected. It's so transparent, and it's staggering to reckon with. Even the Simpsons episode he guest stars in - where his avatar pointedly ingratiates himself into the Simpson family and is promptly left alone unsupervised with the children - it was all part of the act and the deception.

Link Prime

Quote from: radiator on 13 March, 2019, 11:30:41 PM

Watching old clips of Jackson carrying on now, I see them in a whole new light and it seems completely insane what was allowed to go on. I mean, jesus.


It's like rewatching The Usual Suspects and noticing that Verbal was wearing an "I'm Kaiser Söze" T-shirt in every scene.

This was effin madness.


von Boom

I tried watching. I couldn't finish the first episode. It was just too much for me.

Dandontdare

There is no middle ground anymore - seems you have to choose a side and fiercely defend it: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/mar/15/michael-jackson-fan-groups-france-lawsuit

Keef Monkey

I haven't watched it myself, mainly because I've heard enough to know I believe it and don't really need to see the harrowing details. I did have a conversation with a colleague though who took the 'maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but it's wrong to accuse him now that he's dead and isn't here to defend himself' view, which is something I just can't understand because this must be really important to the victims.

Seems like some people just enjoy the music too much to want it sullied for them, but I doubt they were taking the same 'leave him alone' stance when it's someone they're not a fan of. I don't remember hearing those sorts of defenses when all the Jimmy Saville stuff came out posthumously.

Tjm86

Quote from: Keef Monkey on 27 March, 2019, 02:52:46 PM
...  took the 'maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but it's wrong to accuse him now that he's dead and isn't here to defend himself' view, which is something I just can't understand because this must be really important to the victims.


It's not just that though.   Back in the day a lot of this type of behaviour was dealt with by 'mutual agreement'.  The net result being that a known nonce simply moved on to fresh hunting ground and wrecked more lives. For him to have carried it on as long as he allegedly did, there is a strong chance of his having been enabled by those around him.  He might not be around to defend himself but they are. 

Also there is the question of the lessons to be learned. How obvious is the predation and what signs do folks need to watch out for? 

radiator

QuoteI did have a conversation with a colleague though who took the 'maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but it's wrong to accuse him now that he's dead and isn't here to defend himself' view, which is something I just can't understand because this must be really important to the victims.

Yeah, I've heard this 'defence' too - even my girlfriend says this - 'he's dead/whats the point/why did they wait ten years?'.

It's baffling to me. As if that in any way absolves his crimes.