Look at the list of 8 Dredd stories below and tell me your top three:
1 (your favourite of the 8) will get 3 points
2 (your 2nd fav) will get 2 points
3 (your 3rd fav) will get 1 point
The Chief Judge's Man (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/08/epics-46-44-actually-these-are-quite.html) - Progs 1244-1247, 1263-1266, 1342-1349
Raptaur (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/08/epics-50-47-dont-bother.html) - Megs 11-17
City of the Damned (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/08/epics-50-47-dont-bother.html) - Progs 393-406
Dead Ringer (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/08/epics-50-47-dont-bother.html) - Megazines 3.64-3.69
Purgatory / Inferno (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/08/epics-50-47-dont-bother.html) - Progs 834-841/842-853
Luna-City (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/08/epics-53-51-worst-first.html) - Progs 42-59
Blood of Satanus III (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/08/epics-53-51-worst-first.html) - Megs 257-265
Crusade (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/08/epics-53-51-worst-first.html) - Progs 928-937
Voting will close on the morning of Wednesday 24th February and the 4 Epics with the most votes will progress to the next round.
All links go through to AlexF's simply brilliant Dredd Epics Ranked (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/) blog. You may need to scroll to find his write up of a particular story - but I'd suggest just reading the whole thing anyway - it's fantastic stuff.
Baffled by what's going on here - well we have a a thread for that (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47367.0) - though that might leave you more confused than anything.
Rules (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47367.msg1053448#msg1053448) for what they are worth.
Not sure about anything just ask and I'll blag it.
1. City of the Damned
2. The Chief Judge's Man
3. Inferno
Let the games begin!
1. The Chief Judge's Man
2. Raptaur
3. City of the Damned
Hmmm......can I vote for just one?
1. The Chief Judge's Man.
It's actually quite good; I read the collected edition a couple of years ago and enjoyed it.
Not so much the others.
I agree with you Magnetica not the strongest line-up
Quote from: broodblik on 22 February, 2021, 07:41:45 AM
I agree with you Magnetica not the strongest line-up
Don't forget that will be the case for a while as we work up from the bottom of AlexF's ranking - we've going to have some stinkers for a little bit. Its surprising though how quickly it gets decent. The GREAT stuff is a little way off though.
The Chief Judge Man was really good and in my opinion should be rated higher (sorry AlexF)
1. City of the Damned. I have a soft spot for this, the Mutant is a great villain and the future ruined city has bags of atmosphere.
2. The Chief Judge's Man. This works well, always good to see Judge Edgar, one of my favourite (and underrated? - may be a future tourney there) supporting characters in Dredd.
3. Raptaur. I forgot how much trouble Dredd gets in here. It's a solid Dredd vs. alien beastie yarn.
- The Chief Judge's Man
- Raptaur
- City of the Damned
I've not read Blood Of Satanus III but Alex's description makes me determined to track down a copy at some point as it sounds utterly bonkers. Hicklenton drawing tons of grotesque demons sounds like exactly my kind of thing.
1.The Chief Judge's Man - easily the best of the bunch here.
2. City of the Damned - I find this is one of those epics that falls a bit flat, but it's got a lot of cool stuff in it.
I can't in all good conscience give a point to any of the others.
1) The Chief Judge's Man
2) City of the Damned
3) Raptaur
Am I...
...allowed to vote here?
I mean in theory my top 3 ought to match the list exactly :D But if I'm voting purely based on how my heart feels on vague memories of reading each story and the feelings that generates, I'd go for:
1. City of the Damned
2. Blood of Satanus III
3. Raptaur
(Chief Judge's Man is more competently told and, on the whole, better illustrated than all of these by miles. But I'll be damned if I don't wanna revisit those other ones more often...)
Quote from: AlexF on 22 February, 2021, 09:32:29 AM
Am I...
...allowed to vote here?
I thiunk there's no vote I look forward to more. Its going to be fascinating to see how you vote when not bound by the scoring you put in place for your list. And this is a prime example of that.
1) The Chief Judge's Man
2) City of the Damned
3) Raptaur
Quote from: sintec on 22 February, 2021, 08:38:26 AM
I've not read Blood Of Satanus III but Alex's description makes me determined to track down a copy at some point as it sounds utterly bonkers. Hicklenton drawing tons of grotesque demons sounds like exactly my kind of thing.
For me Hicklenton's art was always an "acquired taste". I'm kinda ok with it on Nemesis and actually I'm just biased against any art on Nemesis that's not by O'Neill or Talbot.
But on Blood of Satanus III it was a whole other level. And not in a good way for my taste....but I can see how others would like it and you should absolutely check it out.
Hicklenton's art worked for me on Nemesis, Blood of Satanus it just did not work. Apart form the art the script was also pretty weak. I could not enjoy the story at all.
Some real gems hidden at this end of the ranking.
1). Lunar City - "The Pit" in space! As a whole story, it's not as good as some of the other entries but there are some great individual tales here - Lunar Olympics/Sov War - Oxygen Board - Tough Guy and The Face Change Crimes just being some of these. So much of Dredd law starts here and there are some great Dredd moments: "Don't do it citizen - littering the streets is an offence!"
2). City of the Damned
3). The Chief Judge's Man
HM - Raptaur
I'm kind of interested to see if there's any epic that'd rank below Crusade.
Even when reading the synopsis of Dead Ringer, I don't remember it — which says a lot. So:
1. The Chief Judge's Man — because it was good and imporatnt
2. City of the Damned — because it was a good first half of a story before Wagner got bored and Steve Dillon's art is fantastic
3. Raptaur — because it's the only one of the remaining items I'd still actually want to read today, although...
HM: Luna City, because Huey2 is right in that it's a bit like The Pit on The Moon. however, it really doesn't feel like an epic to me, and is more a bunch of individual strips.
Quote from: Magnetica on 22 February, 2021, 07:34:52 AM
Hmmm......can I vote for just one?
1. The Chief Judge's Man.
It's actually quite good; I read the collected edition a couple of years ago and enjoyed it.
Not so much the others.
Actually I think I will vote for another:
1. The Chief Judge's Man.
2. Luna City.
Re Luna City - it's not really an epic, but some of the stories are great and the art is top notch, especially the Bolland episodes.
I have decided I will after all vote for those stories I don't consider to be epics and will include "epic-ness" as part of the criteria i.e. a great but not epic story will get penalised.
I didn't mind Inferno at the time - I hated Judgement Day and I was absolutely sick of Garth Ennis's shouty, motormouth Dredd and at least now Dredd was sounding like Dredd again. Also, Purgatory made it look good. But looking back on it now, it's kind of shite and I'll probably never read it again.
Haven't quite made up my mind here yet though. A relief though Inferno was back then, for me at least, it's not up there with even the mediocre Wagner Dredds.
I'll slightly defend my vote for Inferno as #3...it has some awesome Ezquerra art and McGruder develops a little further...and I haven't read it in a few years. That's all I got!
1. luna city
2. the chief judge's man
3. city of the damned
Quote from: Magnetica on 22 February, 2021, 02:22:31 PM
I have decided I will after all vote for those stories I don't consider to be epics and will include "epic-ness" as part of the criteria i.e. a great but not epic story will get penalised.
This is kinda the approach I think I will take if I need to make a call. I'll not exclude a story I don't consider an Epic. But a story of similar quality but feels less of an Epic to me will lose out to a story that I don't think is quite as good but ticks all my Epic boxes.
1) Chief Judge's Man
2) City Of The Damned
3) Luna City
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 22 February, 2021, 02:45:21 PM
I hated Judgement Day
I won a copy of a Judgement Day graphic novel a few years back for getting a letter published in the Judge Dredd Megazine.
I think it was the US version and at the risk of being ungrateful, it had the feeling of "whatever we had lying around the office."
I did read it and it was every bit as bad as I remembered. Which was a shame as the first episode was actually quite good and the premise
ought to have resulted in a good story.
I think we are in the murky waters here for the first few rounds, still going to be interesting. I try remember what Judgement Day was about and then the curtains came down. It was that cross-over story and the rest is history
Getting through Inferno in the Mega Collection required effort. I'm not sure I agree with the previous comment that Dredd sounded like Dredd again. He sounded like meathead Dredd — a one-note bully boy cliche machine entirely lacking in nuance, as he did throughout the Morrison/Millar run. They at the time revelled in not giving a shit about the strip's history — and it showed. Ennis arguably had the opposite problem: he was too reverential. Judgement Day was like a second-rate Apocalypse War, but Inferno was like Dredd from another dimension — one with worse scriptwriters. It's almost as bad as IDW's stuff. Purgatory was appalling as well. What a waste of Ezquerra. The transformation of Grice from conniving arsehole to muscle-bound indent-a-kit Morrison/Millar villain for me encapsulates that entire era of trashy and weirdly boring Dredd.
1 - Chief Judge's Man - Objectivley the best quality of the choices here, even if it's a bit safer and less mad/experimental than most of the others. Of course, the art is superb throughout - Simpson, Macneil, Burns. Wins bonus points for Edgar's role in the last entry.
2 - City of the Damned, I suppose, although I've never been a fan. Shows some early promise before it peters out, and Dillon's art is sublime.
3 - Luna City, if only because (apart from BoS III) this is the only other 'epic' here that I've read! Never been in much of a rush to seek those others out, either! Luna City is at least blessed with a lot of artistic talent, and some of the individual tales are true little gems. As has aready been noted, 'Don't jump, citizen!' is a properly classic Dredd moment.
Wot IP sed
also, can I ake the case for City of the Damned as my number 1 here:
I present two arguments:
Firstly, how often do we moan that a story wwmeandered on too long and would benefit frm beng x parts shorter? here, Wagner Grant have just that realisation and it is to the strips benefit, not its detriment.
Which leads me to the second part - how much of CotDs "poor" reputation is down to Wagner /Grant dismissing it themselves - like how Black Sabbath members slate "Never Say Die" as an album, more from their own harried feelings of the band rather than the actual quality of the ensuing product
I'll also make the case for Dead Ringer- yes, a bit of a reun of Judge Child structure wise, but Fegredo art! And lots of fun episodes - massively underrated in my book, so thats second
That leaves Chief Judges Man for third spot.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 22 February, 2021, 04:24:34 PM
Getting through Inferno in the Mega Collection required effort. I'm not sure I agree with the previous comment that Dredd sounded like Dredd again. He sounded like meathead Dredd — a one-note bully boy cliche machine entirely lacking in nuance, as he did throughout the Morrison/Millar run. They at the time revelled in not giving a shit about the strip's history — and it showed. Ennis arguably had the opposite problem: he was too reverential. Judgement Day was like a second-rate Apocalypse War, but Inferno was like Dredd from another dimension — one with worse scriptwriters. It's almost as bad as IDW's stuff. Purgatory was appalling as well. What a waste of Ezquerra. The transformation of Grice from conniving arsehole to muscle-bound indent-a-kit Morrison/Millar villain for me encapsulates that entire era of trashy and weirdly boring Dredd.
Quote from: Leigh S on 22 February, 2021, 04:34:12 PM
also, can I ake the case for City of the Damned as my number 1 here:
Firstly, how often do we moan that a story meandered on too long and would benefit frm beng x parts shorter? here, Wagner Grant have just that realisation and it is to the strips benefit, not its detriment.
I find it
feels far too long - a bit of a turgid slog to the end.
Coincidentally, I just reread it at the weekend. The first time around, my brother wasn't buying the prog every single week so I just got sporadic chapters. I vividly remember Dredd crawling blind through fire though and the profount effect it had on my tiny mind.
Later when I got the chance to read the whole thing later in life, i had to admit the story was a tad more slight, plot wise, than chapters like that one suggested. I still really like it, though, even if it is partly fuelled by nostalgia.
I seem to remember that patching up continuity from this story was a major reason that McGruder came back from her long walk. And the bionic eyes are a massive part of what makes Dredd Dredd. Can't say the follow - up story set in the 'real' 2020 was all that much cop but it was a nice little nod to CotD and I'm glad they addressed it. .
I don't like it too much in isolation; it is however much better as part of the whole Owen Krysler sequence of stories.
Yeah, individual epsiodes of City of the Damned are amazing! There's a massive 'how can Dredd get out of this one' feel to the whole thing.
CotD always felt disjointed to me (and the switching of artist did not help the story - I like one artist doing the whole run). Not my favourite epic but out of the choices presented here it is better than rest.
1City of the Damned
2 LunaCity
3 Blood of Satanus III
1. City of the Damned
And that's it. The others either aren't epics or don't warrant a vote.
Well, just voting on the basis of the epics that I can still recall, remember enjoying at the time and with scenes that still stay with me today:
1. City of the Damned (that moment when Dredd was blinded retains it's power to shock me)
2. Inferno (Dredd ordering his bike to repeatedly drive over Grice)
3. Crusade (I thought the Inquisitor Judge was a great villain, and the shocked reaction from the Emerald Isle Judge when Dredd tackles him in mid-air is just priceless)
Sure, the standard of writing and / or Art might be better in some of the other epics on the list, but these are the ones that I had the most fun reading.
1. City of the Damned. Flawed, sure, but Dillon and the initial premise were cool.
2. Chief Judge's Man. Totally agree with the "important story" point above.
3. Luna city. Pretty good and certainly better than the competition! Some lovely art.
Thanks for running this!
Quote from: Funt Solo on 22 February, 2021, 06:40:09 PM
1. City of the Damned
And that's it. The others either aren't epics or don't warrant a vote.
Hrmn ... that was a bit wanktastic of me.
2. Luna City
3. Raptaur
1. Chief Judge's Man
2. City of the Damned
3. Dead Ringer (I like this one!)
Luna City has some classic episodes, but also some filler: and it really isn't one story, which cost it third place.
Well these are shortened as we can only run one at a time and i want to get through two a week SO it might feel early but last call on this one. I'll count up in the morning and announce the 4 Epics going into the next round and the other four each of whom will fall into the play-off for final places.
Basically get any votes in today.
I have read the first 13 case files and enjoyed it at the time so my one vote goes to.
1. Luna City
1. City of the Damned
2. The Chief Judge's Man
3. Inferno
OK, I'll go with:
1 - City of the Damned (though admittedly nostalgia plays a part)
2 - Raptaur*
3 - The Chief Judge's Man
HM - Inferno, for reasons stated above, but its coupling with Purgatory drags it down. (I mean, falling into molten metal and then climbing out again...)
*Dredd dealing with the press in the most Dreddly way possible. Citi-def, who I'm always pleased to see. Dean Ormston, whose colour palette is absolutely perfect for the garish, plasticky, neon-lit MC1 nights. One of Alan Grant's best solo Dredds, imo.
I'd soooo like to join in with this...but I've only read City of the Damned. This rather poor hit rate made me wonder how many progs I've actually read, and being lockdown what better way to waste some time than to actually calculate the exact figure! It came out as 32% :-[ And I thought I was so well read on 2000 AD matters, what a wake up call up call! Oh well, I'll lurk on the sidelines...
Quote from: MumboJimbo on 23 February, 2021, 10:32:05 AM
I'd soooo like to join in with this...but I've only read City of the Damned.
Yeah, I thought I was pretty well-read Dredd-wise, but I've only read four of the eight here!
Apart from Dead Ringer, the others all come from the stretch of the Case Files (16-20) that I avoided - and I avoided that era because of its infamous reputation. So it's not too surprising that this is where most of the lower-tier epics dwell.
Somehow this had passed me by til today.
1. City of the Damned
2. Chief Judge's Man
3. Raptaur
And that's all I can say at the moment due to suffering the severe side effects of vaccination.
SBT
1. City of the Damned
2. Chief Judge's Man
3. Dead Ringer
1. Chief Judge's Man (From that wonderful Wagner period when he was seeding plot lines over many years)
2. City of the Damned (Cos it feels significant)
3. Inferno (Carlos!)
The top two are looking pretty consistent so far... Fascinating stuff!
City of the Damned
Chief Judges Man
Luna City
Glad to see I'm not alone in my enjoyment of Inferno (Carlos!)
1. City of the damned
2. Lunar city
3. Chief judge's man
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 23 February, 2021, 11:32:22 AM
Quote from: MumboJimbo on 23 February, 2021, 10:32:05 AM
I'd soooo like to join in with this...but I've only read City of the Damned.
Yeah, I thought I was pretty well-read Dredd-wise, but I've only read four of the eight here!
Apart from Dead Ringer, the others all come from the stretch of the Case Files (16-20) that I avoided - and I avoided that era because of its infamous reputation. So it's not too surprising that this is where most of the lower-tier epics dwell.
Just my 2 groats - While that is definitely a low period for Dredd, there are some gems in each of those Case Files, I'd recommend not skipping any. Many of the one-offs have great art, by Ezquerra, McMahon, Smith etc.
Case Files 16 has Twilights Last Gleaming and Justice One, CF 17 has Judgement Day (love it or not, a worthwhile Epic IMO), CF 18 has Mechanismo, CF 19 has Mechanismo returning and Inferno, and CF 20 has some fun stories including the Sugar Beat (Ron Smith) and The Enemy Below.
Some skippable stories for sure, but I treasure each of the Case Files (some more than others, obviously).
VOTING CLOSED
But feel free to carry on the conversation. I wasn't sure about this one but the response to this opening vote has been fantastic! Let's see if it sustains. Anyway the top two have been clear from almost the start. The next two became clear pretty soon after that, but fascinatingly ever story, even amongst these 'bottom 8' got at least one vote... anyway enough already the results.
Progressing to next vote:
1. City of the Damned - 62 points
2. Chief Judge's Man - 54 points
3. Luna City - 19 points
4. Raptaur - 14 points
Into the 52 - 44 position play off:
5. Purgatory / Inferno - 5 points
6. Dead Ringers - 4 points
7. Blood of Satanus III - 3 points
8. Crusade - 1 point
6. Dead Ringer
Tomorrow I'll start the next vote when things get really interesting and see if any of those top four beat the next four...
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 February, 2021, 12:39:58 PM
I'm kind of interested to see if there's any epic that'd rank below Crusade.
At least six of the others on this list for me. Oh, but I'm too late. Sorry, will try harder next time.
01.
City of the Damned. Weak Wagner & Grant is still better than anything else on the list. It's the only one that's a "real" epic and it gave us a handful of unforgettable moments. I should've had it done years ago.
02.
Crusade. I know it's like the World's tallest dwarf, but this is by far the best of Morrison Millar long form stories. Partly because there's a bit more Grant than Mark about the McGuffin and the finale but mostly down to Mick Austin. A very underrated artist whose Dredd goes back to the tough, wiry prototype.
03.
Luna City, I guess. Already stretching the definition of an epic but some early world-building, vintage art and fond memories of the Eagle comics reprints find a place here.
The rest:
Chief Judges' Man. Disqualified for not being an epic. I get that the original redefinition was a bit of fun to bring in more stories. However, the natural state of Dredd is an ongoing fight against all sorts of crime with occasional villains, plot threads and themes recurring over time as they would in life. Epics are the punctuation marks along the way which threaten to upset or at least resolve elements of this equilibrium. The CJM strand is very clearly in the former camp and it's a perfectly fine but unspectacular example. The background stuff about how it plays into the Edgar plot is more interesting than the individual stories.
Raptaur/
Dead Ringer. Have read both but neither left much of an impression.
Purgatory/
Inferno. I'm sure somebody's already made this joke but was Paradise when this rubbish finally ended?
Blood of Satanus III. I'm sure I'm not alone in being a bit ashamed of my comments on this story's original run in the Meg before I knew some of the reasons for it. What's left after that's acknowledged is a fairly incoherent story with occasional spectacular images. A good thing for Pat to have done perhaps, but not something I'm likely to revisit.
1) city of the dammed
2) chief judges man
3) purgatory / inferno
Never understood the dislike lumped upon City of The Dammed. 1 & 2 are solid but the writing of the Hersey relationship is CJM is icky (not a complaint, just it's not so enjoyable because it's inherently icky). Purgatory inferno gets the vote over anything else due to the art.
One days voting? Oh. Whatever...
Seems that I missed something. Nobody to mention Day the Law Died, Oz and Apocalypse War (i find these classic Dredd arcs the best).
Quote from: milstar on 24 February, 2021, 03:15:00 PM
Seems that I missed something. Nobody to mention Day the Law Died, Oz and Apocalypse War (i find these classic Dredd arcs the best).
This is only Round 1...!
Quote from: milstar on 24 February, 2021, 03:15:00 PM
Seems that I missed something. Nobody to mention Day the Law Died, Oz and Apocalypse War (i find these classic Dredd arcs the best).
As Dark Jimbo says its working bottom to top from a list AlexF put together. There's a load of links to checkout that list which I highly recommend cos his blog was excellent
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 22 February, 2021, 06:21:48 AM
All links go through to AlexF's simply brilliant Dredd Epics Ranked (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/) blog. You may need to scroll to find his write up of a particular story - but I'd suggest just reading the whole thing anyway - it's fantastic stuff.
Baffled by what's going on here - well we have a a thread for that (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47367.0) - though that might leave you more confused than anything.
of course you could quite legimately not be arsed to read that in which case patience we'll get to the other stuff in good time is the quick answer.
Quote from: BPP on 24 February, 2021, 02:58:06 PM
One days voting? Oh. Whatever...
Two days for these - lets me get two in a week (avoiding weekends) as they can't run in parallel like other votes. So the plans is
One vote Monday - Tuesday (counted up Wednesday morning)
Second vote - Thursday to Friday (counted up Saturday morning)
and ffrom next week the placing vote running Monday to Thursday (I think I might have just changed that!) with results on Friday.
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 24 February, 2021, 03:18:13 PM
Quote from: milstar on 24 February, 2021, 03:15:00 PM
Seems that I missed something. Nobody to mention Day the Law Died, Oz and Apocalypse War (i find these classic Dredd arcs the best).
This is only Round 1...!
Aye, Colin's hardly going to include
Crusade and
Purgatory, while forgetting that
The Cursed Earth,
Necropolis and
Day of Chaos ever existed ;)
I've just read Crusade, to see if I could find anything redeeming about it. Er...no. The plot as a whole, not just the summary, must have read something like "Let's stick a bunch of World Judges together, all after the same thing which we won't properly explain, introduce a new Judge who's as badass as Dredd, and, er, see what happens". The only thing I liked was the design of Cesare's uniform - have the Vatican Judges been seen anywhere else - I can't recall seeing them in Devlin Waugh?
Intrigued by Blood of Satanus III - presumably this will appear in the Case Files at some point.
My mini-review said:
QuoteCrusade is like Battle Royale on ice, with Judges! Vatican-Cit Judge Cesare has a cape: he's a caped crusader! Mix in Judges from Oz, the Emerald Isle, Brit-Cit, Hondo, East-Meg Two, Luxor, Indo-Cit & Pan-Africa and you've got your high concept all lined up waiting for the axe to fall (and the lava to flow).
Quote from: BPP on 24 February, 2021, 02:58:06 PM
1) city of the dammed
2) chief judges man
3) purgatory / inferno
Never understood the dislike lumped upon City of The Dammed.
Neither can I, love City of the Damned
My only disappointment with City of the Damned, on my first read, was that it ended so soon. It was a 14-prog mini-epic after waiting over two years since The Apocalypse War, which (when you stuck it together with Block Mania) was a 34-page epic. So...City of the Damp Squib, was the only problem. Expectations were not met.
1977: 17-prog Luna-1 sequence.
1978: 25-prog Cursed Earth saga.
1979: 23-prog Caligula sequence.
1980: 26-prog Judge Child
1981: 15-prog Mega-Rackets and 9-prog Block Mania
1982: 25-prog Apocalypse War
1983...
1984...
1985: 14-prog City of the Damned
QuotePurgatory/Inferno. I'm sure somebody's already made this joke but was Paradise when this rubbish finally ended?
Cosh, someone may have made this joke already but I've never heard it before! Genius.
Given the wraparound plot of 'Crusade' being about finding the head of God, I wonder if that was, at some point, meant to be the Paradise part of this potential trilogy? Although Millar spunked all his best ideas about questing for God in the first Canon Fodder.
Quote from: abelardsnazz on 24 February, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
Intrigued by Blood of Satanus III - presumably this will appear in the Case Files at some point.
I wouldn't get TOO excited. It's more of a curio than anything else. Pat Mills of course has done some amazing Dredds, but this isn't one of them. There are a few jarringly off-character Dredd quotes, such as '[spoiler]I get my kicks from polishing my gun[/spoiler]', the reader response to which Pat seemed irritated and puzzled by, and Dredd's not-very-original pun when someone is demanding justice - '[spoiler]There's just us.[/spoiler]'
John Hicklenton is one of my favourite artists the prog has ever had. But he's not at his best here - I'm not sure why, maybe it's TOO detailed or maybe the reproduction process hasn't been kind to it. Or maybe a bit of both.
Sorry, I've just realised how scathingly negative this post is. It's better than anything I could ever write or draw, of course, and a million times better than
Crusade. (I don't feel too bad about criticising Millar and Morrison's stuff; I'm sure if they read this they'd cry all the way to the bank.)
I unapologetically hate BoSIIII as a Dredd story, and I think this coloured my view of the art at the time, about which I was shamefully, unforgiveably rude. Going back to it, it has some of the most fantastic involving images of all of Hicklenton's incredible work, and that's more than enough justification for any praise it gets. As always, it speaks to Pat's genius for giving the right artist the right conditions to shine.
But it's over-long Dark Matter Cenobite nonsense nonetheless.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 26 February, 2021, 01:29:13 PM
John Hicklenton is one of my favourite artists the prog has ever had. But he's not at his best here - I'm not sure why, maybe it's TOO detailed or maybe the reproduction process hasn't been kind to it. Or maybe a bit of both.
What I alluded to earlier in the thread and TB has just mentioned. This is what I remember about the situation now. If I'm off anywhere I unreservedly apologise and please correct me here.
John was already quite ill. One of the big effects of MS is the gradual loss of fine control of delicate movements. Like drawing. To offset this, each panel of the finished comic was drawn as a separate piece and the final pages are a collage of these scaled up and down accordingly.
Thanks for the responses and insights on BoS III. I'm even more intrigued now! For something to cause so much comment and debate there has to be a uniqueness about it.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 26 February, 2021, 01:29:13 PMPat Mills of course has done some amazing Dredds
*checks Barney*
It looks like Mills did only ten Dredd stories. Two are of course instrumental world building (Return of Rico and Cursed Earth) although are still in that period where the comic was figuring out what Dredd was. (Read Cursed Earth now and an awful lot of it is very out of character.) Blood of Satanus was solid at the time and remains enjoyable now, but I don't remember the sequel and I abhorred the third story, bar Hicklenton's mad genius.
Looking at Mills's other strips, it feels like everything he did for Dredd past the old classic era didn't click with me: needlessly stretching out Return of Rico to three episodes; the Ill-advised Hammerstein crossover. Mind you, I can't remember Steamers and Birthday Boy, and so perhaps they were good.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 27 February, 2021, 10:50:03 AM
Mind you, I can't remember Steamers and Birthday Boy, and so perhaps they were good.
They were not, art from Smudge and the great Vince Locke aside. Steam-powered hillbilles driving unaccosted around MC-1 in the Arkansas Chugabug, and a serial killer thing with the angel Moroni and an Undercity time portal.
But the fun and worldbuilding of his earlier Dredd stuff makes up for a lot.
Quote from: TordelBack on 27 February, 2021, 02:46:51 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 27 February, 2021, 10:50:03 AM
Mind you, I can't remember Steamers and Birthday Boy, and so perhaps they were good.
They were not.
I reread Steamers recently. It wasn't great I have to say. I think it was meant to lead into something else... but it hasn't and it all kinda washed over me.
Quote from: TordelBack on 27 February, 2021, 02:46:51 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 27 February, 2021, 10:50:03 AM
Mind you, I can't remember Steamers and Birthday Boy, and so perhaps they were good.
They were not.
Nope.
Birthday Boy looked initially like it might be, but... no.
I quite liked the second
Blood of Satanus, though, I have to say! Nothing wrong with it bar Dredd saying a few clangingly odd things (I don't even mind the 'polishing my gun' line).
The original Blood of Satanus has a great concept and a cracking cover, but the actual story isn't much cop. BoS II is a bloody delight; BoS III is a follow-on to that but where part II is mostly a piss-take of satanic cults, part III seems to take them more seriously, or at least, takes seriously the idea of good and evil. Try reading it not as a Judge Dredd story, but as a sequel to 'The Two Torquemadas', where X-face is like the ultimate Hell incarnation of Torquemada, Nemesis is the unseen agent of KKKhaos that bridges the chasm between Hell and Mega City 1, and Dredd is the agent of Order who has to restore the status quo.
There's no WAY these books belong in the Case Files, though (certainly not if they didn't include the original America). But they'd fill a couple of floppies nicely.
VOTING CLOSED
The result here is pretty cut and dried. While all but one Epics got votes, four dominated. Two continued their seemingly unstoppable march forward, but their advance was slowed considerably by a new front runner, how much further can they go? Enough, the votes already -
Progressing to the next round:
Mechanismo - 59 points
City of the Damned - 33 points
Chief Judge's Man - 19 points
Doomsday - 18 points
Going into the 44 - 37 position play off:
Mandroid 2 - 6 points
The Hunting Party - 4 points
Darkside - 2 points
Cold War
Now I'm confused- is this the correct thread? Voting closed on this one already last week didn't it?
Quote from: Magnetica on 03 March, 2021, 07:37:07 AM
Now I'm confused- is this the correct thread? Voting closed on this one already last week didn't it?
Oh God this is meant to be on the Round 3 thread - I'm rushing too much!
Sorry for the confusion!