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#21
Announcements / Re: The 2000 AD Thrill-Cast - ...
Last post by Le Fink - Today at 08:53:51 AMI'm listening to the Lowborn High creator interview. It was commissioned specifically for Regened as "a working class Hogwarts". I was surprised to learn Tharg commissioned those 20 page episodes as 20 page episodes.
#22
Books & Comics / Re: Completely Self-absorbed T...
Last post by Colin YNWA - Today at 07:31:38 AMPart 2 - Not on the list Uncanny X-Men
His run worked to a formula and he worked and manipulated that to move with the times that his exceptional run covered. He experimented with ideas and character rosters, restlessly playing with that formula, though never really moving too far from it. As a teenager introduced to his work in the mid 80s these comics spoke to me so much and outside Daredevil, these were my favourite of that time.
Yet now, for all that, I can barely read them these days.
I don't really enjoy these comics as an adult at all. Why is that? Well for me they are so of their time and indeed my time then, but they don't hold up to my older eye. I see the formula, can't read past the cracks and the hookey dialogue. I see that crafted formula exposed so clearly and it isn't for me any more. The fact that they were so perfectly crafted for his audience of the time and age they were, means they simply don't translate to me as the reader I am now. There is no room in them to entertain the different reader I have become.
In my entry for Power Pack I talked about how I felt the characters there were honest, they felt real and I trusted them and their place in the story. It truly felt like the characters came first, the story developed from there. With Claremont's X-Men I just don't feel that any more, I don't trust the characters as drivers. The craft and skills behind them shows through, but not in a good way. In the way that makes me see what strings they are trying to pull, what aspect of the audience they are playing to. How they are being used to key into some element of teenage life that will make them appeal to the target audience.
I mean it's done brilliantly, it really works and it worked like billio on me when I was that audience. Now however I feel I see behind the curtain and the characters feel almost cynically built to pull certain emotional triggers. A large part of that is possibly the dialogue as well. I find it almost impenetrable these days. It's almost as bad as Stan Lees, it's hyperbolic and there's just so much of it. But written in a way that feels like it's sculpted to evoke a specific response, rather than feeling natural and evoking that response organically.
Fair to say all dialogue, all story will do this, I just feel with Claremont's work I can now see how he's pulling the strings. As said as well there's just too much of it, so many words, often not saying that much. It feels so written and underlines points which could have better been served by 'show not tell'. I do wonder how good it might have been if John Wagner had been a script editor and just chipped away at things to expose the essence of what was being said, not underline it three or four times.
It's a real shame as one thing Claremont does better than almost any superhero writer is craft combat to do just that. To evoke tension and excitement in very deliberate ways. With his action pieces though he gets away with it much better as he whisks you along at pace, whereas the dialogue drags the character moments back. In the combat sections you genuinely feel our heroes are in danger and the fight is hard and they have to be creative to win the day. Or often not, defeats happened and so the danger in these superhero tussles was palpable. Not so with the character moments where nothing feels earnt, to me at least these days.
I accept I'm very much an outlier on this and folks either see past the cracks that I perceive to glory in the great plotting. Or the stories have such a foundational part in their reading they don't care. OR they see the craft as so good they don't even notice what I perceive as forced characters I don't trust. I mean none of us can ignore the countless dangling plot threads, but they never really mattered, they were part of the fun wondering when some long forgotten idea would spring back to life.
My not liking Claremont's Uncanny run is another case of the reader bringing different desires to the table and therefore getting a different reaction to what they read. I do completely get what folks see in them, but they are just not for me these days. And for me this one is a case of not just thinking these comics are good, just not that good. Rather I just don't get on with them anymore at all, wonderful art aside.
It doesn't matter how important you are if I don't trust you, you're not getting my vote.
His run worked to a formula and he worked and manipulated that to move with the times that his exceptional run covered. He experimented with ideas and character rosters, restlessly playing with that formula, though never really moving too far from it. As a teenager introduced to his work in the mid 80s these comics spoke to me so much and outside Daredevil, these were my favourite of that time.
Yet now, for all that, I can barely read them these days.
I don't really enjoy these comics as an adult at all. Why is that? Well for me they are so of their time and indeed my time then, but they don't hold up to my older eye. I see the formula, can't read past the cracks and the hookey dialogue. I see that crafted formula exposed so clearly and it isn't for me any more. The fact that they were so perfectly crafted for his audience of the time and age they were, means they simply don't translate to me as the reader I am now. There is no room in them to entertain the different reader I have become.
In my entry for Power Pack I talked about how I felt the characters there were honest, they felt real and I trusted them and their place in the story. It truly felt like the characters came first, the story developed from there. With Claremont's X-Men I just don't feel that any more, I don't trust the characters as drivers. The craft and skills behind them shows through, but not in a good way. In the way that makes me see what strings they are trying to pull, what aspect of the audience they are playing to. How they are being used to key into some element of teenage life that will make them appeal to the target audience.
I mean it's done brilliantly, it really works and it worked like billio on me when I was that audience. Now however I feel I see behind the curtain and the characters feel almost cynically built to pull certain emotional triggers. A large part of that is possibly the dialogue as well. I find it almost impenetrable these days. It's almost as bad as Stan Lees, it's hyperbolic and there's just so much of it. But written in a way that feels like it's sculpted to evoke a specific response, rather than feeling natural and evoking that response organically.
Fair to say all dialogue, all story will do this, I just feel with Claremont's work I can now see how he's pulling the strings. As said as well there's just too much of it, so many words, often not saying that much. It feels so written and underlines points which could have better been served by 'show not tell'. I do wonder how good it might have been if John Wagner had been a script editor and just chipped away at things to expose the essence of what was being said, not underline it three or four times.
It's a real shame as one thing Claremont does better than almost any superhero writer is craft combat to do just that. To evoke tension and excitement in very deliberate ways. With his action pieces though he gets away with it much better as he whisks you along at pace, whereas the dialogue drags the character moments back. In the combat sections you genuinely feel our heroes are in danger and the fight is hard and they have to be creative to win the day. Or often not, defeats happened and so the danger in these superhero tussles was palpable. Not so with the character moments where nothing feels earnt, to me at least these days.
I accept I'm very much an outlier on this and folks either see past the cracks that I perceive to glory in the great plotting. Or the stories have such a foundational part in their reading they don't care. OR they see the craft as so good they don't even notice what I perceive as forced characters I don't trust. I mean none of us can ignore the countless dangling plot threads, but they never really mattered, they were part of the fun wondering when some long forgotten idea would spring back to life.
My not liking Claremont's Uncanny run is another case of the reader bringing different desires to the table and therefore getting a different reaction to what they read. I do completely get what folks see in them, but they are just not for me these days. And for me this one is a case of not just thinking these comics are good, just not that good. Rather I just don't get on with them anymore at all, wonderful art aside.
It doesn't matter how important you are if I don't trust you, you're not getting my vote.
#23
Books & Comics / Re: Completely Self-absorbed T...
Last post by Colin YNWA - Today at 07:31:03 AMPart 1 - Not on the list Uncanny X-Men
Not on the list - Uncanny X-Men by Chris Claremont
While we're talking about 80s Marvel comics let's talk about probably the biggest of them of all and why
Copyright Marvel Comics
Doesn't make the list.
Chris Claremont took over the then recently relaunched Uncanny X-Men (then just X-Men actually. It always surprises me how late the 'Uncanny' was added - actually issue 142 I think) from issue 96 in 1975 and started a 16 year run on the title covering well over 300 issues across all X-titles. I ain't going to try to work out how many issues, there were, like, almost 200 issues of Uncanny and countless Annuals, Specials, minis, spinoff titles and Xavier knows what else! These comics have a very good claim to be the most important in mainstream US comics beyond Action Comics 1, Detective 27 and say FF 1. Let's not get into that debate. Suffice to say this run fundamentally reshaped the comics landscape for Marvel and DC and those that followed in their wake.
His run played heavily into the outsider feeling many comics fans feel. It built a soap opera around the superhero shenanigans in a way that built on what Stan, Jack and Steve did and laid the template for almost all the comics from the 'big two' to follow. He understood how to engage and speak to his teen audience like few others, to appeal to a need for thrills and spills, bolstered by 'real' human stories to connect with his readers.
He did this supported by an astonishing line of artists who define for so many what good comic book art should look like. This run with John Byrne is seminal. He has a short time with Paul Smith that is insanely popular with those in the know. He then moved onto my favourite, John Romita Jr to continue things, before Mark Silvestri and Jim Lee blew fans' minds in the late 80s early 90s. Amongst all that there were numerous other fantastic artists involved. For me most significantly there are some stellar comics by Barry Windsor Smith dotted about, which even today stand out as the highlights of his tenure.
He took newly introduced characters created by others and shaped those rough drafts into some of the biggest superhero names in comics. Wolverine is the obvious one, but everyone who read these comics will have a favourite, Nightcrawler was mine, so many love Storm or Kitty Pryde, a few stand by straight edge Cyclops, I'd guess a few even have Professor X as their fav. All those characters spoke to someone. Not resting on his laurels though he'd go on to create a host of others that would reach similar levels of acclaim and adoration.
Not on the list - Uncanny X-Men by Chris Claremont
While we're talking about 80s Marvel comics let's talk about probably the biggest of them of all and why
Copyright Marvel Comics
Doesn't make the list.
Chris Claremont took over the then recently relaunched Uncanny X-Men (then just X-Men actually. It always surprises me how late the 'Uncanny' was added - actually issue 142 I think) from issue 96 in 1975 and started a 16 year run on the title covering well over 300 issues across all X-titles. I ain't going to try to work out how many issues, there were, like, almost 200 issues of Uncanny and countless Annuals, Specials, minis, spinoff titles and Xavier knows what else! These comics have a very good claim to be the most important in mainstream US comics beyond Action Comics 1, Detective 27 and say FF 1. Let's not get into that debate. Suffice to say this run fundamentally reshaped the comics landscape for Marvel and DC and those that followed in their wake.
His run played heavily into the outsider feeling many comics fans feel. It built a soap opera around the superhero shenanigans in a way that built on what Stan, Jack and Steve did and laid the template for almost all the comics from the 'big two' to follow. He understood how to engage and speak to his teen audience like few others, to appeal to a need for thrills and spills, bolstered by 'real' human stories to connect with his readers.
He did this supported by an astonishing line of artists who define for so many what good comic book art should look like. This run with John Byrne is seminal. He has a short time with Paul Smith that is insanely popular with those in the know. He then moved onto my favourite, John Romita Jr to continue things, before Mark Silvestri and Jim Lee blew fans' minds in the late 80s early 90s. Amongst all that there were numerous other fantastic artists involved. For me most significantly there are some stellar comics by Barry Windsor Smith dotted about, which even today stand out as the highlights of his tenure.
He took newly introduced characters created by others and shaped those rough drafts into some of the biggest superhero names in comics. Wolverine is the obvious one, but everyone who read these comics will have a favourite, Nightcrawler was mine, so many love Storm or Kitty Pryde, a few stand by straight edge Cyclops, I'd guess a few even have Professor X as their fav. All those characters spoke to someone. Not resting on his laurels though he'd go on to create a host of others that would reach similar levels of acclaim and adoration.
#24
Books & Comics / Re: Completely Self-absorbed T...
Last post by Colin YNWA - Today at 07:29:50 AMQuote from: Barrington Boots on 24 April, 2024, 09:28:23 AMQuote from: Tjm86 on 24 April, 2024, 07:12:06 AMEarly 80's Marvel does seem to be its hey-day. By the late 80's they seem to have crawled up their own backsides before completely losing the plot in the speculator boom of the 90's. (trillion's of covers, holograms, card covers, die cut covers, cover covers ...)
This is my feeling on Marvel too, although I did wonder if it was nostalgia telling me this. It's nice to see others of this opinion!
Nostalgia could well be a part of this, but look at what sustains and the quality of experimentation and innovation that fuels any nostaglia and I do reckon there's something there.
Quote from: Party-Pom-pom on 24 April, 2024, 03:03:21 PMHi,hope no-one minds me putting this here,but if anyone wants to buy or trade for a collection of Powerpack comics then let me know,I have a bunch of them in the attic that will have to go as recycling or charity shop
Thanks
Matt
Obviously with deals etc to consider this is an offer defo worth checkin' out... as I'm about to say why not trade in those old Uncanny comics for something more interesting...
#25
Off Topic / Re: Boys Adventure comic blog
Last post by Richard S. - Today at 06:44:07 AMA covers gallery for Marvel UK's 9-issue run of 'Thundercats' collected comics
https://boysadventurecomics.blogspot.com/2024/04/thundercats-collected-comics.html
https://boysadventurecomics.blogspot.com/2024/04/thundercats-collected-comics.html
#26
General / Re: Forthcoming Thrills - 2024
Last post by judgeurko - 24 April, 2024, 11:57:28 PMQuote from: Funt Solo on 24 April, 2024, 07:01:20 PMweirdQuote from: judgeurko on 24 April, 2024, 05:00:39 PMAI can go to hell
AI's response:
#27
Books & Comics / Re: Skybound to reprint 80s Ma...
Last post by JohnCKirk - 24 April, 2024, 11:24:46 PMThe related news (which I haven't seen mentioned here) is that the UK "Action Force" stories are being reprinted soon:
https://www.totaltoybooks.com/news/battle-action-force-treasury-editions
If that does well, maybe we'll see a "Storm Force" collection afterwards?
https://www.totaltoybooks.com/news/battle-action-force-treasury-editions
QuoteBattle Action Force, was published weekly from October 1983 to November 1986 by IPC Magazines limited, and brought together some of the greatest talents in the British comics industry of that time, both on the editorial and illustrative fronts including names like Gerry Finley-Day, Geoff Campion and Cam Kennedy. Included within its pages were the adventures of "Action Force", created by British toy manufacturer, Palitoy.
Four heroic Action Force teams: infantry specialists Z Force, ocean based Q Force, infiltration specialists the SAS and orbital guardians Space Force protected the world against the evil machinations of Baron Ironblood, The Black Major and their army of brainwashed Red Shadows.
Now, for the first time in over forty years, Total Toy Books, with kind permission from Hasbro and in collaboration with Rebellion Publishing and Skeletron, are proud to announce an officially licensed reprint of the Action Force tales from Battle Action Force collected in a series of deluxe sized 'treasury editions.'
If that does well, maybe we'll see a "Storm Force" collection afterwards?
#28
Off Topic / Re: This is the News!
Last post by Funt Solo - 24 April, 2024, 10:12:49 PMQuoteAnd the star-spangled Banner in triumph shall wave,
O'er the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.
Gaza protesters clash with police at US universities
#29
Games / Re: Gamebooks
Last post by Richard - 24 April, 2024, 08:57:41 PMNightshift
by Victoria Hancox
by Victoria Hancox
This is a non-FF horror-themed book which first saw print in 2019. I started it a while ago and enjoyed it at first, but then got put off by its one true path structure, and left it for what was meant to be a few days but turned out to be several weeks! I then got back to it a couple of days ago and was enjoying it again, but then got put off by a choice of direction with no information about either option, which is dull at the best of times, but quite frustrating when you know that your entirely random choice will later mean the difference between winning or losing! So I gave up, but thought I should still write something about it anyway, although this won't be a playthrough.
It has an interesting setting: you are a nurse (gender never specified) in a modern hospital on Earth, when you wake up in a break room and find one of your colleagues has been murdered, her throat slit. You soon find the murderer pursuing you, and you have to flee. The murderer is described in such a way as to create a real sense of peril, and if you manage to get away at the beginning, he stalks you around the hospital, so there is the prospect of unexpectedly bumping into him at any time.
The hospital is otherwise mostly deserted, and something has definitely happened -- or you're in some sort of parallel, supernatural world. It's a derelict ruin, full of monstrous surroundings. Early on, I hear an unpleasant sound which I investigate, and find that it's one of the patients who is quite beyond help... moving on, I find another murder victim, then one of the corridors is barred by a barrier made of human skins stitched together ... then my first proper encounter is with the incinerated corpse of a witch who was burned at the stake 500 years ago! After meeting her, I blunder into the murderer, who kills me.
It has an interesting setting: you are a nurse (gender never specified) in a modern hospital on Earth, when you wake up in a break room and find one of your colleagues has been murdered, her throat slit. You soon find the murderer pursuing you, and you have to flee. The murderer is described in such a way as to create a real sense of peril, and if you manage to get away at the beginning, he stalks you around the hospital, so there is the prospect of unexpectedly bumping into him at any time.
The hospital is otherwise mostly deserted, and something has definitely happened -- or you're in some sort of parallel, supernatural world. It's a derelict ruin, full of monstrous surroundings. Early on, I hear an unpleasant sound which I investigate, and find that it's one of the patients who is quite beyond help... moving on, I find another murder victim, then one of the corridors is barred by a barrier made of human skins stitched together ... then my first proper encounter is with the incinerated corpse of a witch who was burned at the stake 500 years ago! After meeting her, I blunder into the murderer, who kills me.
The whole description of events, encounters, and descriptions in general are very atmospheric and compelling, making it an enjoyable read. There are some nice instant death paragraphs, and one of the recurring puzzles involves finding and keeping tack of certain disembodied body parts that are lying around the place. There are no scores to keep track of or combat, it's just a matter of solving puzzles and choosing the right path. Unfortunately, while the puzzles are reasonable (although sometimes they require you to know some general knowledge that isn't in the book, which you could argue isn't fair but I didn't really mind), the necessity of choosing precisely the right path through the book or being killed became annoying after a while, and my patience with the book eventually dissipated entirely.
If you don't mind that sort of Ian-Livingstone-on-steroids approach to gamebooks, and you like horror, then this book will probably be right up your street. It had some positive attributes that I enjoyed about it, but ultimately I had to decide that it wasn't really for me.
(Back to FF for my next book!)
#30
Games / Re: Gamebooks
Last post by Richard - 24 April, 2024, 08:35:34 PMYes, the open-ended exploration is a big plus for me -- having the exact opposite feature in the gamebook I've just been reading was eventually the reason I stopped reading it!
From memory, there is an encounter with the dark elf in Ashkyos, which makes his re-appearance at the end of the book feel less random and more like plot. Recurring characters like him and the captain and Jesper make it feel more like a story than just a sequence of encounters.
Glad you enjoyed it!
From memory, there is an encounter with the dark elf in Ashkyos, which makes his re-appearance at the end of the book feel less random and more like plot. Recurring characters like him and the captain and Jesper make it feel more like a story than just a sequence of encounters.
Glad you enjoyed it!