Are old TV and Movies the best?

[steverogers1001]

Just wondering as I've noticed that there's quite a lot of 'older' people who use this forum, who quite often prefer older shows and films.

I personally (for the most part anyway) prefer older shows and films because of my watching nostalgia channels (and also the Gerry Anderson repeats on BBC2) during my childhood and teenage years during the 1990s.

However there are one or two shows which I enjoy (eg Arrow) and a few others which I continue to watch out of loyalty (eg Doctor Who) rather than out of enjoyment of the quality, which is often lacking.

Also I enjoy watching some modern SF and Fantasy movies, provided that they have a distinctly 'retro' style to them such as Dredd which is pretty much as close as you are going to get to an old school (18 rated) 1980s SF action film that you are going to get in todays ultra PC media world, and Chappie which while it can be a little twee at the same time it's a VERY 80s film, albeit one made in 2015.

So what do you guys think?     

[Famous Mortimer]

todays ultra PC media world

So what do you guys think?   

I think that's a pretty lazy criticism of modern media. Would you rather go back to the days when women were basically props in TV and movies, to be ogled or rescued depending on the situation?

I don't think "PC" concerns enter the heads of media creators these days. What I do think they're worried about is offending any of their corporate partners, which is why much of the stuff made today feels hollow and unsatisfying. If I'm misrepresenting you, sorry - I just get pissed off with people saying "PC" is a bad thing in 2015. It basically means "think about what you say, because words have power".

But to the meat and drink of your post. I think modern sci-fi is way more able to deal with different and interesting topics. I really enjoyed, from the last few years, "Defying Gravity" and "Almost Human", both cancelled after a season. They had some meaty issues discussed, as well as having cool sci-fi and so on.

Then, to provide an example of an older show I'm rewatching, "Highlander". Not sci-fi, admittedly, but certainly "genre" TV. It's fun, but if they'd made it in 2015 it would have been so much richer - the plotlines feel pretty basic at times.

[Colin YNWA]

Well being old my definition of old may well be very different but in short, no, certainly in terms of telly.

While there were a lot of good shows when I was younger there is little doubt that since say 1999 (I use that date as I always set The Sopranos as the high mark) US TV has woken up to its potential and started churning out well written, high quality drama. Comedy has also developed on the trimuphs of the past and become better overall.

Now a factor in this is that I have a LOT less time for telly these days, so I filter out the better stuff and watch only that. Could be but I very much doubt it.

So yeah we had Edge of Darkness and Twin Peaks back in the day, but lets be honest really top rate telly was relatively rare. Since 1999 we've have The Sopranos, West Wing, The Wire and Breaking Bad and many many others. The bits of the other quality telly I glimpse makes clear that there is way to much for me to keep up with.

So in short for telly the answer is defo no. Its much better now.

[Daveycandlish]

There's nowt wrong with PC world. Certainly no worse than Curry's or Dixon's.

[steverogers1001]

There's nowt wrong with PC world. Certainly no worse than Curry's or Dixon's.

LOL

See what you mean though.

I agree that modern American TV (and in some cases film) is better than what it was and that many shows were somewhat simpler back in the day, but rather I was stating that UK (SF in particular) has gone downhill.

I mean just look at the majority of the recent Doctor Who episodes in the last few years (2011 on-wards) while I'll agree that the post 2005 revival (and also Torchwood) was great when RTD was the showrunner the show has gone downhill ever since Moffet took charge, which is a shame really as he used to write such good episodes.

I mean look at it, the show has become cartoonish (and not in the way the old show sometimes was, back then they were trying to do it properly but were unable due to lack of budget and time) and inconsistent (I could write volumes about the plot holes in recent Dr Who scripts) however I won't make this my mouthpiece for  my views on the current state of my fave program....

What I meant was when I said that TV and Film is more PC nowadays (and I don't just mean less racist or sexist) is that a lot of SF and Fantasy stuff (barring the odd exception) in the UK isn't very good such as the recent new series of Thunderbirds granted that has always been something of a light hearted and shallow show, and it's nice to see that the women have better roles to play this time around, but think about it.

Thunderbirds 1960s was aimed at both adults and children thus having a number of references that would have gone above the heads of kids at the time, and the Tracy bros were written as mature adults (barring the lack of romance) while Thunderbirds 2015 is aimed at kids (it's shown on CITV go figure) while we do have a story arc this time around due to the show being aimed at kids, it's a lot faster paced and the stories are spelled out to the viewer.

While I have no disrespect for children's TV (both past and modern) I just feel that there is 'something' missing from UK TV and Film...       

[Greg M.]

Can't comment on US tv – I've no interest in these big US dramas, however objectively excellent they may undoubtedly be – but British tv is substantially poorer than it once was, especially on the sf front. As an example, last year's BFI dvd releases of British sci-fi and telefantasy included 'Red Shift', an episode of 'Play For Today'. 'Red Shift' is an amazing piece of tv – complex, intellectually challenging, assumes a level of intelligence on the part of the viewer – and as I was watching it, I had to keep reminding myself that this wasn't some weird niche cult thing at the time. This was mainstream tv in 1978. Think of 'Quatermass and the Pit', think 'Sapphire and Steel', think 'The Prisoner' – hugely imaginative mainstream shows dealing with complex ideas for a mass audience. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I don't see modern UK equivalents.

[steverogers1001]

Another thing that I'd like to point out is that while modern shows and films don't seem to portray women as sex objects, and ethnic 'minorities' as being stupid or evil simply for being born in their own gender/race(s) the sad truth is that the heads of media still do stereotype people in other ways.

Eg-Young women: Assertive sex hungry whores who 'want it all' in life, good job, sexy man and maybe kids, who (if they are in an action adventure series) fight in an overt sexual manner (all high kicks and open legs) and wear skin tight outfits.

Eg-Black men: Hard as nails, cynical, sometimes with good family values and sometimes speaking in a 'ghetto' dialect, although this has become less common in recent years.

What's worse is the way the actors behave outside the programs that they are in, such as the time Jenna Coleman (who plays Clara in Doctor Who) did a nude shoot for some magazine or website.

I don't know which one, I just found it on Google images after a friend told me about it.

After when did any of the actresses in the 1963-1989 series of Doctor Who do nude shoots? (Katy Manning did hers some years after she left the program) granted there were those who did 'glamour' shots but those were images with no nudity in them.

Really I think that TV and Film hasn't got less racist or sexist in recent years, but rather more so.

All that changed is the images and portrayals that are used, not the fact that stereotypes are used.

At the end of the day people are people, not characters.
           

[Professor Bear]

It's possible that the conservative values of most sci-fi appeals to older audiences, but my personal opinion is that modern media is still recycling ideas from decades-old tv and movies, so why not just go straight to the source?

[WhizzBang]

I think production values are generally better today but the content is poorer. The already mentioned Doctor Who is a good example, but all those US series are overly stretched out and go on for series after series like 24. I think 24 should have ended 12 hours in to the first season.

[M.I.K.]

What's worse is the way the actors behave outside the programs that they are in, such as the time Jenna Coleman (who plays Clara in Doctor Who) did a nude shoot for some magazine or website.

I don't know which one, I just found it on Google images after a friend told me about it.

Are you sure the photos are genuine? I would've thought that would be the sort of thing the internet would go mental about, and I haven't heard/read a word about it 'til just now.

[Professor Bear]

New board members may want to take note of where the thread seems to be going.  This happens a lot.

[M.I.K.]

Oops.

I merely wished to make sure Ms. Coleman's good name was not being unfairly sullied.

Honest, guv'nor.

[JudgeOiNK!]

I have to say, as a 37 year old man who grew up with the Thunderbirds revival in the 90s, that the new show is tops.  I love the model work, it's just sublime and the fact the show is delving deeper into the characters of the Tracy family and there's some arcs there.  All good.  But it does need to be longer, or at least have multiple part stories, the tension is gone, replaced by action.  All fine for today's kids though and it's certainly head and shoulders above the usual TV tripe for kids these days.

Don't let the scheduling be an indicator though.  ITV have had a major backlash from older viewers who, rightfully, say ITV have finally found their Saturday teatime show they've been looking for ever since DW came back (and they showed the 45 minute premiere episode in this timeslot) to only then bury it on ITV (not just CITV mind you) at 8am every Saturday morning.  The last one of this run was shown on Sunday there at teatime so maybe they're trying it out.  It's great fun and I actually get up to watch it - a great excuse not to lie in, even though I have Sky Plus.  It's a bit of an event

Growing up my main TV treats were things like Knight Rider and A-Team and it'd be nice to have some good family-orientated action shows again but the vogue thing these days is to go dark and have previous family shows go all dark and moody.  While that's worked a treat in some cases such as the much more adult Battlestar, it's getting tiresome now.  There's a place for it, don't get me wrong, but where's all the lighter fun stuff?

For me the turning point in really good quality TV was in the 90s with Babylon 5.  TV leapt on from there, with story arcs (although not many are very well planned it has to be said {{cough}}Lost{{cough}}), proper character development etc.  For a show which also didn't pander to non-SF types it also attracted a lot of non-SF fans.  Just shows that pandering to a crowd won't always get you the results you want.  B5 was honest in its pure SF storytelling and it paid off, there were loads (my mum included!!) who really got into it who weren't fans of SF beforehand.  Good quality TV shines no matter the genre.

So yes I've seen TV evolve and the nostalgia is there for the 80s (I'm working through Knight Rider at the mo actually) and B5 was a turning point.  There's some great telly these days but I'd like to see more of a balance - let's have the big deep shows, but let's bring back more of the fun elements too, especially to family viewing.  Knight Rider, Airwolf and A-Team were all lighter shows my family would all watch together, B5 was an example of a deeper one which worked the same way too, and today there's those like NCIS in all its incarnations (probably the best example of the balance I'm talking about) which continue to have us watching together whenever we get the chance.  But we need more shows like that.

(Completely agree about DW though, I got tired of waiting for it to become good again so have now just stopped.)

[Professor Bear]

Where is this backlash and how can I contribute to it?  ITV have already killed one Anderson cartoon with their crappy scheduling and I'd like this one to do better.

You had me up until Babylon 5 there - I think sci-fi fans overestimate B5's importance, as TNG - and later DS9 (whose success was likely what kept B5 on the air) - were more responsible for bringing arc plotting to syndicated shows because they were part of a successful franchise and not a cult show largely kept alive by a fawning sci-fi press.  Far more likely that the rise in arc plotting had more to do with the expansion of channels and number of tv networks in the US at the time.  The old model of syndication was largely redundant and the "episodic" format of most tv shows - not just sci-fi - was a casualty of a more competitive market that couldn't afford to let audiences think they could just drop in and out of viewing a show anymore.

[locustsofdeath!]

Stop watching TV and do something useful with your lives.














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