dredd film - mistake?

[TordelBack]

In fairness, Dredd takes his helmet off all the damn time (although not, apparently, when he's on chain gangs), its just that his face is usually in shadow/bandaged/transfigured at the time.  We know roughly waht he must look like anyway from the various depictions of Fargo and various half-sightings.  White (possibly hispanic), big chin, flattish nose, blue eyes with square pupils, a fair number of scars and wrinkles,  either bald or a buzz cut - not massively unlike Stallone (or Perlman!).  It's not like Nemesis leaving the Bltzspear or what's under Shakara's armour, which were all plot points - it's more tradition that anything critical to the story - presumably the other judges know what he looks like, it's just we the readers that are in the (relative) dark.

I don't think it really matters to the strip and hence not to the film, although to judge by Wagner's apocryphal reacton to Fraser's IMHO excellent depiction of the Brothers Dredd, it may well matter to him.

No, I could have lived with Stallone's ugly mug if his diction had been clearer and the story had been even vaguely coherent or interesting.

[IndigoPrime]

:: I don't think it really matters to the strip
:: and hence not to the film

I disagree: to a great extent, not seeing Dredd's face highlights the facelessness of justice in MC1. Of course, reforms have somewhat changed that, but it's hardly like MC1 is a free democracy.

[dweezil2]

Realisticly, there was no chance in hell that the film producers would go to the expense of hiring a highly bankable star at the time, therefore greenlighting the project, If Stallone was not to show his face.
Besides, this was hardly the greatest flaw of the film- the greatest, in my opinion, being the narrative decision to make the Dredd chracter a subject of ridicule and somewhat clueless, therefore undermining the character, in the process!
Do you think Dirty Harry would put up with some wise ass punk backchatting him? He'd give him a crack round the chops, just for looking at him funny!
And for my money, there wasn't enough 'over the top' violence in the movie. But that's what happens, when you try and sanitise a character like Dredd.

[Jim_Campbell]

"And for my money, there wasn't enough 'over the top' violence in the movie"

And therein lay the (IMO insurmountable) problem that faced the film from the outset:

If they made a 'proper' Judge Dredd film, then the wider audience would simply have slammed it as a rip-off of Robocop, even though Neumeier and Miner were quite open in their admission that Dredd was a massive influence on their Robocop screenplay ...

Cheers!

Jim

[TordelBack]

"I disagree: to a great extent, not seeing Dredd's face highlights the facelessness of justice in MC1. "

I hear the "New Frontiersman" in the background: " Justice is like the Hawk, sometimes it must go hooded"!  I do agree, a helmeted Dredd should emphasise the 'faceless' nature of the Justice Dept., especially as it was originally conceived as an executioner's hood.  Except that it doesn't.  

Dredd is very recognisable to the citizenry, a constant even, as attested to by Silver's disastrous decision re: Kraken.  How many times have perps cried "Grud!  It's Dredd!"?  Hardly faceless, that chin is as distinctive as Lopez's 'tache - don't tell me the average spug is reading that badge, especially if Siku is on art duties. So Dredd has a face, it's just from the mouth down.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out in 'Origins' that Dredd's habit of always wearing his hat in public is because he didn't want to be seen as another Fargo ('went off the rails a bit'), so there may yet be an 'in universe' reason given.  I just don't think it's essential to the story or the character that we don't see his face.  

[ThryllSeekyr]

I allways tok Drdd to be a typical White New York  native. Hint of Italian, Hint of Jew.

[Dog Deever]

I thought it was pretty violent for it's certificate., but i'd agree that there should have been more violence- you can never have too much OTT violence in a film!

[Concrete Block 15]

Nice WATCHMEN reference, TB!

I think in fairness, the 'faceless' comment wasn't intended as a literal reference, but instead in the context of 'robot-like, esp of bureaucratic officials who allow no degree of personality to intrude on their decision-making processes' (definition courtesy of The Chambers Dictionary which happens to be the one to hand.) Now, if that ain't just the perfect description of JD, I don't know what is!  

And from JD: The Mega History:

In his early Dredd visual, Ezquerra took one far-reaching decision on his own: "I covered up his face... for the simple reason that, if he was a Judge, he would have many enemies and these people wouldn't know what he looked like. So when he was off-duty (!) without his helmet, he could pass unnoticed and go about without being recognised."

And from the same article, an ironic touch of foreshadowing to come:

But, Ezquerra knew he had to base what little was seen of Dredd's face on something. "When I first started to draw Dredd's face, he was based a little bit on Sylvester Stallone (whose movie Rocky had been released around that time in the summer of 1976.) I felt that Judge Dredd would be a man of few words and Stallone's Rocky Balboa was a good contemporary model. I also decided to give him some large lips, to put a mystery as to his racial background."    

[TordelBack]

Damnit, I have got to get copy of that book!  Unfortunately, it came out during my wilderness years (when I was spending all my money on condoms, photocopying and tequila [in reverse order, sadly], rather than than the GCC - fool that I was!).

[Concrete Block 15]

Link: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/judge-dredd-the-mega-history-book_W0QQitemZ130027107598QQihZ003QQcategoryZ108883QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Eh-up,  eBay gum!

[Concrete Block 15]

Link: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/185291128X/ref=dp_olp_2/026-5902097-9587661" target="_blank">Better Still!

[TordelBack]

Cool!  Thanks for the links, CB15.

[JOE SOAP]

It's a book well worth getting except there's no interview with Wagner.

[JOE SOAP]

Didn't Wagner & Grant do a treament for the Dredd film but because the producers wanted it for nothing, they never did a first draft?

What happened to that treatment, has anyone seen it?

[Doggy Carrots]

i first saw the film before i was a serious dredd fan and thought it was allright, i watched it again and i almost threw up that i actually liked it even for a second.