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Started by SmallBlueThing, 04 February, 2011, 12:40:44 PM

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SIP

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 27 September, 2018, 09:41:44 PM
Star Trek V: The Final Insult.



That is all.

Would it be controversial at this point to say that I think Star Trek V is nowhere near as bad as the rap it gets........yup, budget issues, but I never tuned in to classic trek for its special effects. I like it, I think it's an interesting storyline with some solid character moments.

The Legendary Shark



I wanted to like it but no. Utter piffle from start to finish, the only highlight being that one single shot. David Warner - why the Hell was an actor of his quality even there? His role could have been filled by literally anyone else in the entire world galaxy universe multiverse - must be the easiest paycheck he ever earned. He could at least have been cast as "God" but even that wouldn't have saved this horrible monstrosity.

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Professor Bear

The quality of STV has long been acknowledged as the result of the troubled production process in which the studio did everything they could to sink the movie, from slashing the budget to firing the SFX company and even shelving the film entirely when a monster suit for the film's finale got damaged.  I gather The Shat's ego didn't do him any favors before and during shooting, but he did salvage the film from sitting on a shelf and killing movie Trek dead by paying for the final shoot out of his own pocket, and how do we repay this unsung cinematic auteur for winning Captain Kirk's greatest battle?  By taking the Red Pill and siding with The Man and his pro-corporate historical revisionism.

I always liked FFV, it was a silly romp that felt like an episode of the show - a season 3 episode, admittedly - but it was definately back to basics stuff, with the stakes lowered from galactic threats to personal drama.

von Boom

If ST:V had been the last film of the original crew it would have made a nice bookend to the films. From the overly cerebral TMP to the plain silly FF, but no, they had to go and spoil it by giving us Undiscovered Country. A quality Star Trek film and my favourite ST film after WoK.

Apestrife

Lars von Trier's The nymphomaniac director's cut. The 5h version of the film, with a sfx sex scenes. Actors' faces cgi:d into body double actors acting out the good stuff. Quite allright overall. Not a perfect film, but very interesting. I really enjoy the ending. If it has the effect I'm thinking it has, then it's brilliant. If anyone's planning on watching it, a warning. It has some quite shocking scenes in it.

Funt Solo

I was so caught up in the Star Trek conversation that I thought you were saying that Lars Von Trier had edited Star Trek V so that it included porno scenes.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Magnetica

Wow how did I miss this Star Trek thread?

It's too difficult to put them in order but what I would say is:

I would happily never watch ST TMP again because I find it extremely dull (and those grey uniforms don't help).

I don't get Tordel's Generations is worthless comment; I like it a lot. The Enterprise crash is just heart wrenching.

I don't get the general dislike for ITD either.

FC is generally pretty good but it is far from the best use of the Borg. That was and always will be Q Who (which is the best episode of any TV series ever).

I really want to see Nemesis again, if only because I didn't know who Tom Hardy was at the time  and as I recall he is totally unrecognisable in it compared to Peaky Blinders or Taboo. Not to mention MM FR.

STV FF rates pretty low for me, but it is the only one I haven't seen in the cinema and that might cloud my judgement of it.

Just trying to find the time to watch Beyond whilst it is still on Netflix. Again I don't get the dislike for it.


Jim_Campbell

Quote from: Magnetica on 28 September, 2018, 09:19:49 PM

I don't get the general dislike for ITD either.


Well, there's the fact that Khan's 'plan' makes literally no sense whatsoever. On top of that, for the simple sake of plot convenience, the film invents the ability to transport across the galaxy, making starships instantly redundant. Oh, and the whole curing death thing. 
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TordelBack

#12593
Add to that that it duplicates almost every sequence from the 2009 outing,  and throws in the skeeziest scene since Showgirls for good measure. In fact,  add every scene Alice Eve appears in - just ghastly casting for an awful character. And those grey uniforms with peaked caps!

The sheer disdain for sense that the production has is exemplified by the fact that Admiral Marcus has a bloody model of his super-secret super-evil spaceship on open display in his office.

Last time of watching,  the main (only?) positive I extracted was that the future cityscapes were very well realised,  even if San Francisco had become surprisingly flat.

In my experience,  most people who dislike Beyond don't seem to have seen it.

The Legendary Shark

My head canon for Khan's plan is that, believing Marcus has killed all his followers, he attempts to start the Klingon-Federation war (possibly even luring the Klingon "random patrol" to intercept Kirk's mission to do so), whereupon he will side with the Klingons and feed them tactical and technical information so that they can obliterate Starfleet for him. His plans change when he guesses the nature of the torpedoes aboard the Enterprise.

The cure for death, however, also bothers me - although as Bones freezes Kirk to "preserve brain functions" it may indicate the Captain wasn't actually all the way dead to start with, just as near as dammit. It would have worked better for me if the process had been used to cure a handful of other crew members as well and not just Kirk.

The first reboot bothers me in that it takes only a few minutes to get from Earth to Vulcan but seemingly forever to get back to Earth from Vulcan. It could be argued that Nero was taking a circuitous route to give him time to get the codes or whatever from Pike but this doesn't scan for me either - he's just demolished an entire group of starships with apparently little effort so sweeping through a few primitive (from his perspective) border defences doesn't seem beyond his capabilities. Somehow, my head canon misfires every time I try to figure that one out.

Still, I enjoy all the reboots so I have to fall back on suspending my disbelief.

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von Boom

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 29 September, 2018, 12:42:18 PM

Still, I enjoy all the reboots so I have to fall back on suspending my disbelief.
That's a very long fall for those films.

The Legendary Shark


Infinitely long - so no chance of ever hitting the bottom!

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Professor Bear

Into Darkness features a scene where Kirk has to "jump start" the Enterprises's engine by beating a giant spark plug into a socket using his fists, which is dumb enough before you even notice that he finally succeeds in making it move vertically downwards by kicking it horizontally.
In the cinema, I recall hearing someone say "it's people" just before the torpedo reveal, and I was thinking the exact same thing at that moment because there was no setup for it to be anything else we'd seen, and the film was so stupid that any reveal would have to be something that a non-Trek audience could understand.
Revenge: everyone is motivated by it, just like in the previous film.  Kirk is avenging the death of a dad for a second time.
Also, the sexism: apart from the obvious ogling stuff and Uhura having no character beyond being a huffy girlfriend, she's also set up to be revealed as practically useless with the dreadful "LET ME SPEAK KLINGON" stuff - whereas in Beyond, she digs in, never takes her clothes off, has her crew's back, and even sacrifices herself to save Kirk, which is nice from a character standpoint, but also actually makes her relevant to the plot now.

Everything about Into Darkness stalls characters and the property exactly where they were, but everything in Beyond moves those characters forward - sometimes jarringly so, as in the aforementioned Kirk now being just as compassionate and - most uexpectedly for NuTrek - clever as he was in the original show/movies to the point I couldn't ratify him with the smug bully from the previous two films.  The worst thing about Beyond may be that it does too good a job in redeeming him.

The Legendary Shark


Why isn't there a sensor in the crews' badges that automatically has them beamed to sick bay if they get spaced? Does Health and Safety mean nothing to these people? Gah.

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TordelBack

#12599
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 29 September, 2018, 12:42:18 PMThe cure for death, however, also bothers me - although as Bones freezes Kirk to "preserve brain functions" it may indicate the Captain wasn't actually all the way dead to start with, just as near as dammit.

I do think this is the intention, with Bones later even making a perfectly-delivered crack about Khan's "super blood" and Kirk being barely dead.  It's not a huge leap to think that an engineered superhuman from the Eugenics Wars might have some kind of cellular repair gizmo in his blood that fixed radiation damage,  it's the fact that Kirk is dead that makes the whole thing daft - I wouldn't be surprised if he was only mostly dead in some original script,  hence the reuse of the torpedo cryo tube,  but this was amped up to full death to give Spock an excuse for some more revenge rage*.

Incidentally,  I do like the opening volcano stuff in ITD,  suitably prime-directive violating Kirk action, with the craziest anti-science solution.  The alien make-up is very effective too.


*if I was Uhura I'd be pretty worried about my boyfriend's tendency towards bludgeoning people with his super-strength in blind rages.