This is really just to set something down while i's occurred to me and I remember it. I haven't been avidly following the development of New Dredd, but I can't escape the mentions of gritty-tone and action-sequences, redesigns and whatnot, and thinking this does not bode well.
The core of Dredd was never about those sort of peripheralia, and to treat it as that, as a 'Franchise', is to miss the point. There's a reason, after all, that Ezquerra designed the bloody costumes like they could have been on Franco's police force from the start. And there's a reason why the Stallone Dredd is noted by people who know as the precise point where the blockbuster action-movie bit the big one.
I've long been an apologist for the Stallone Dredd, and how the man rocketed in my estimation when he fought to salvage something from the mess - but case in point about the Mess ...
That sequence, right, where SJS Judges are on hoverbikes and chasing Dredd through the City for an Exciting Action Sequence. Within the basic context of that sequence, those SJS guys were innocents, duped by the Big Bad, and the audience was expected to cheer when they flew into stanchions or whatever and exploded.
The audience didn't cheer. The audience stayed away in droves. The movie lost sight of the flinty heart of basic decency that should have been its centre, and I can only hope New Dredd doesn't do that.
I think the reason that the audience stayed away in droves was because it was a pish movie and there is not really any getting away from that.
I watched it on video with my 10 year old son and he said at the end 'Dad - that was a really bad film'. If 10 year olds are saying that about an action movie then you know there has been a monumental balls up somewhere.
As action flicks go the Stallone Dredd was a good film, but that's all it was, an action film with a bloke in a bad Dredd cosplay.
The reason we hate it is that Dredd was pissed all over then shat on.
V
I liked many of the designs and the look of MC-1 in that film- that -shall- not- be -named,(codpiece though-nOOOOO!), but it was a Hollywood-ised Dredd er minus most of the best bits of Dredd.
And Dreddy ain't no hero, he's just an authoritarian with a big gun. Grud bless 'im.
And he does not need sidekick comic relief by that actor- who- shall- not -be -named.
I remember all those people standing up in the cinema when Hershey kissed Dredd and shouting with anger at the screen. "NO JUDGE DREDD YOU DON'T DESERVE LOVE BECAUSE YOU LET THOSE SJS JUDGES DIE. I AM UPSET BY THIS DEVELOPMENT."
Quote from: Proper Dave on 12 January, 2012, 07:48:26 PMThere's a reason, after all, that Ezquerra designed the bloody costumes like they could have been on Franco's police force from the start.
They still are, and if anything, closer to Ezquerra than the Stallone version.
Quote from: Proper Dave on 12 January, 2012, 07:48:26 PM
I've long been an apologist for the Stallone Dredd, and how the man rocketed in my estimation when he fought to salvage something from the mess
It's partially his fault and his name was the reason the film got put into production, the fact that it was structured like a Stallone film is warning enough. I don't commend him for anything and he pocketed over $10 million of the $90 million budget. Stallone fought for an
end of scene 'kiss' and and an on-set
blo-job.
The '95 film is just a bad film
full-stop.
The audience didn't cheer. The audience stayed away in droves. The movie lost sight of the flinty heart of basic decency that should have been its centre, and I can only hope New Dredd doesn't do that.
I doubt that was a reason the audience stayed away. The '95 film is just a bad film
full-stop, flinty heart or no.
I've said it many times before, but the film was so boring that my then-future-wife actually fell asleep in the cinema (and she's watched Star Trek: The Motion Picture and the extended edition of The Big Blue more than once), and swore off ever reading Judge Dredd again. I don't think an excess of grittyness came into it.
Or wait, am I confusing that with my last blow-job, also ca. 1995?
Quote from: vzzbux on 12 January, 2012, 08:27:29 PM
As action flicks go the Stallone Dredd was a good film, but that's all it was, an action film with a bloke in a bad Dredd cosplay.
The reason we hate it is that Dredd was pissed all over then shat on.
Disagree. The reason nobody has a good word for it is because it's not even a good action movie. I've never been a great fan of Stallone anyway but pretty much the only decent action film he's done since 1987 is Demolition Man and even that's primarily down to Wesley Snipes.
When the best thing anyone can find to say about a film is that the production design was nice then you're in trouble.
Quote from: TordelBack on 12 January, 2012, 11:34:57 PM
my then-future-wife ... and she's watched ... the extended edition of The Big Blue more than once
I'd fuck Jean-Marc Barr
Quote from: The Cosh on 13 January, 2012, 12:01:54 AM
I'd fuck Jean-Marc Barr
I think it's how long he goes down for that's the appeal.
Loved Demolition Man - fantastic actors like Snipes, Bullock, Leary all managed to shine. Still don't know what the three shells was supposed to do though.
Back to the point - love me some grit. Bring on the grit. Gritty gritty grit. I definitely don't want some feelgood hero and bright colours or kissy faces - asskicking is where it's at.
There are a number of concerns with the new movie -some of the design work (not the uniform,which for me is great),a lot of production shots look very basic, the vehicles awful (Wagners comment that he hoped it had a bit of a bigger budget I think reflects that) and the very ,shall we say ,subdued PR work to date.
There is also the concern ,as I think the OP suggests that it is concentrating too much on the violent side of Dredd.Given the constant references to 'dark and gritty' and the strong desire for a R rating ,I understand and am also concerned that they may miss the essence of Dredd.Robocop went for ultra-violence and was a completely terrible film (form an orderly queue to disagree).Dredd is not and never has been centred on violoence, more on satire and the idiosycrancies of his world and all the stronger it is for it.I do hope that they aviod this one-dimensional take on Dredd.
Given the sheer strength and depth of those involved in the production process, together with their love for Dredd and their consultative process with John Wagner I am hopeful that this will not transpire, but rather they will use this film as a base introdution to Dredd's world as a platform for sequels to come.
Fingers crossed. :thumbsup:
Quote from: The Sherman Kid on 13 January, 2012, 12:57:56 AM
Robocop went for ultra-violence and was a completely terrible film (form an orderly queue to disagree).
Ok, in what way is it
terrible?
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 13 January, 2012, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: The Sherman Kid on 13 January, 2012, 12:57:56 AM
Robocop went for ultra-violence and was a completely terrible film (form an orderly queue to disagree).
Ok, in what way is it terrible?
Does 'in every way ' cover it? :thumbsup:
OK then, seriously ,there was absolutely no depth of characterisation in anyone ,clumsy sentimentalism, dour humour, wafer thin plot and completely over-the-top violence.That should cover it.
Quote from: The Sherman Kid on 13 January, 2012, 01:13:10 AM
OK then, seriously ,there was absolutely no depth of characterisation in anyone ,clumsy sentimentalism, dour humour, wafer thin plot and completely over-the-top violence.That should cover it.
Not the film I remember, but each to his own.
Quote from: Proper Dave on 12 January, 2012, 07:48:26 PM
This is really just to set something down while i's occurred to me and I remember it. I haven't been avidly following the development of New Dredd, but I can't escape the mentions of gritty-tone and action-sequences, redesigns and whatnot, and thinking this does not bode well.
The core of Dredd was never about those sort of peripheralia, and to treat it as that, as a 'Franchise', is to miss the point. There's a reason, after all, that Ezquerra designed the bloody costumes like they could have been on Franco's police force from the start. And there's a reason why the Stallone Dredd is noted by people who know as the precise point where the blockbuster action-movie bit the big one.
I've long been an apologist for the Stallone Dredd, and how the man rocketed in my estimation when he fought to salvage something from the mess - but case in point about the Mess ...
That sequence, right, where SJS Judges are on hoverbikes and chasing Dredd through the City for an Exciting Action Sequence. Within the basic context of that sequence, those SJS guys were innocents, duped by the Big Bad, and the audience was expected to cheer when they flew into stanchions or whatever and exploded.
The audience didn't cheer. The audience stayed away in droves. The movie lost sight of the flinty heart of basic decency that should have been its centre, and I can only hope New Dredd doesn't do that.
Stallone "salvaged" the mess that was the 1995 Judge Dredd 'movie' (?), it was a mess PRECISELY BECAUSE Stallone seized control of the whole project, demanding changes to the script and everything else, I still firmly believe that if Danny Cannon's vision of that film had prevailed, I don't know if it would have been a great Judge Dredd film, but it would've been a pretty excellent big-budget futuristic epic, although I lay some of the blame at Cannon himself, he was offered
Die Hard with a Vengeance in 1993, and he turned it down, wanting to do Judge Dredd instead, but he didn't have the creative and/or commercial cred in Hollywood to insist on doing it his way, if he had directed the third
Die Hard movie, it would have been a guaranteed blockbuster, and he could've used the cred from that to do Judge Dredd the way he felt it should have been done, still holding out for a 'director's cut' someday though...
RoboCop a "terrible" movie, which one were you watching, the pilot for the television series...?
Quote from: The Sherman Kid on 13 January, 2012, 01:13:10 AM
OK then, seriously ,there was absolutely no depth of characterisation in anyone ,clumsy sentimentalism, dour humour, wafer thin plot and completely over-the-top violence.That should cover it.
Well it is an out-and-out
satire -pointed sarcastic wit, exaggeration and ridicule- of all those things you mention that are present in American culture. Verhoeven did say RoboCop is the American Jesus plus it's
very well directed and written, the plot is rightly and completely secondary.
Quote from: Beaky Smoochies on 13 January, 2012, 01:26:15 AM
I still firmly believe that if Danny Cannon's vision of that film had prevailed...but he didn't have the creative and/or commercial cred in Hollywood to insist on doing it his way, if he had directed the third Die Hard movie, it would have been a guaranteed blockbuster, and he could've used the cred from that to do Judge Dredd
I doubt it. Dredd '95 was a producer/writer/star led
vehicle long before Cannon was ever hired. People like Lippincott/Pressman had carried the property for a long time and they wanted someone as green as Cannon but who had enthusiasm. If it hadn't been him it would have been some other
bub willing to accept whatever script the Vajna/DeSouza duopoly handed over.
Quote from: The Sherman Kid on 13 January, 2012, 12:57:56 AM
...Robocop went for ultra-violence and was a completely terrible film (form an orderly queue to disagree)...
BITCHES LEAVE!
As I understand it, Stallone wanted to do Dredd, went away to do other stuff, came back to see what the executive production ginks had done and was instrumental in at least trying to fix some of it. Hence the famous Musical Eagle - and if you don't know what that is, count the number of birds on any Judge's uniform in any given shot.
Robocop, on the other hand, is the closest thing to Proper Dredd that has ever made it to the screen, and there's an end on't.
Blimey! Not even two weeks in and 2012 is already a vintage year for profoundly ludicrous statements on the forum. First "Obama's hard left socialism" and now this!
Quote from: The Sherman Kid on 13 January, 2012, 12:57:56 AMRobocop went for ultra-violence and was a completely terrible film
Before you know it, some eejit will be banging on about characters coming back from the dead in Dante.
Purely cos I can't be arsed to search for it, who said the phrase 'Obama's hard-left socialism'? Just so I can go and point and laugh.
Quote from: Proper Dave on 14 January, 2012, 12:51:34 AM
Purely cos I can't be arsed to search for it, who said the phrase 'Obama's hard-left socialism'? Just so I can go and point and laugh.
I did, on the political thread, and I stand by it (what would
you call playing outright and highly divisive class warfare for political ends?), but wrong thread to elaborate here, besides, I think we pretty much covered it there...
As for the 1995 movie, even Sly Stallone admitted in an interview some years ago that they handled it in a sloppy way, and should have been closer to the source material, now he gets it ::), mind you, after the pretty hardcore last Rambo movie, I think if DNA Films weren't doing a new Dredd adaptation, I'd be willing to let ol' Sly have another crack at it, I think he would do it right this time...
Quote from: Beaky Smoochies on 14 January, 2012, 04:20:26 AM
As for the 1995 movie, even Sly Stallone admitted in an interview some years ago that they handled it in a sloppy way, and should have been closer to the source material, now he gets it ::), mind you, after the pretty hardcore last Rambo movie, I think if DNA Films weren't doing a new Dredd adaptation, I'd be willing to let ol' Sly have another crack at it, I think he would do it right this time...
I don't think he does. :lol:
And no I would NEVER give him another ''crack'' at it. :crazy:
... which was why I said clearly IF the DNA Films guys weren't doing a new Dredd movie adaptation :D, and thank goodness they are...
quick, somebody start a thread about Obama's Hard-Left socialism right away! Put it next to the one about Richard Dawkins' devout Catholicism
...he replied, a whole THREE months later, quick on the uptake I see, judgefloyd mate, crack open a tinnie for me :D...
why yes, it was three months ago, I hadn't noticed. I've been out of touch with the board, so I'm just looking around and answering things when I feel like it. Never mind, I'm quicker on the uptake than anyone who thinks Obama is in any way socialist.
Wah-ey! - Floyd is back. Awesome.
Don't diss the Floyd.
Given the breadth of debate in US politics, Obama might as well be sharing a toothbrush with Hugo Chávez.
You have to admit though: In a strip full of flying vehicles, it doesn't make much sense that judges' bikes Don't fly.
The Guthriebike could fly.
Quote from: Adrian Bamforth on 23 April, 2012, 11:03:33 PM
You have to admit though: In a strip full of flying vehicles, it doesn't make much sense that judges' bikes Don't fly.
They don't need flying bikes, they have H-Wagons.
If they flyed, they wouldn't be bikes.
I can imagine that when you grow up in Oirland you have to avoid a whole heap of Cardinal Errors.
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 23 April, 2012, 11:33:59 PM
I can imagine that when you grow up in Oirland you have to avoid a whole heap of Cardinal Errors.
Imagine all you want, you're not gettin' any.
Flikes... lol
PPI - Personal Pursuit Interceptor
Is Cardinal Error an unused character from Soul Sisters?
Flycles.
Quote from: vzzbux on 12 January, 2012, 08:27:29 PM
As action flicks go the Stallone Dredd was a good film, but that's all it was, an action film with a bloke in a bad Dredd cosplay.
The reason we hate it is that Dredd was pissed all over then shat on.
V
Have to disagree there V,
Dredd was shat on
first, set on fire,
THEN pished on by that film.
Did someone mention Romero's Dante: Return from the Dead?
I guessed at the time the '95 production people had been shown issues featuring Luna 1...they had flying LM's up there (I think), it would be easy to assume they are all aerial.
They also had them in an annual story.