Doctor Who - Series 10 (Spoilers)

[TordelBack]

I've said it loads of times here, but when I was a kid being called gay was THE most terrifying playground insult I could imagine.  At the same age my kids literally couldnt care less, let alone imagine why I would have felt that way. And that is, IMHO, largely down to visible representation. We basically had Mr Humphries and Larry Grayson's catchphrase and maybe whoever Dick Emery was dressed up as this week, and I wasnt really sure what I was supposed to make of any of it beyond the idea thsy they were laughable weirdoes.

The current front runner for the leadership of our current centre-right goverment is openly gay, and effectively no-one cares. A decade ago I'd say that would have disqualified him completely. Maybe in a decade there'll be a transgendered candidate. Characters on a SF/fantasy show play their part in that.

Fiction writes the world.

[sheridan]

Fiction writes the world.

That's why the bigots want to censor the fiction.

[IndigoPrime]

First one in this series that felt a bit flat for me. Came across like exposition for the series arc rather than another good standalone. Ah well.

[JamesC]

I quite enjoyed it and the baddies were quite scary.

[Mardroid]

I liked the latest episode, Extremis, a lot. Its been done before, I but I felt the execution worked well. A [spoiler]clever twist.[/spoiler]

[ABCwarBOT]

Russell T. Davies annoyed a lot of people when he had Captain Jack kiss the Doctor right on the lips.   That to me was unacceptable in the show (no problem with men kissing each other in shows like Queer as Folk).   

So it's the fact that it's two boys kissing in a family show that's unacceptable to you, not just the inclusion of kissing itself.  You need to have a long think about that, and what sort of unwelcome terms might best describe that attitude.

As it happens I agree with you that the shift towards a focus on relationships over stories was a problem with the new show, but I'm afraid you're firmly on the wrong side of history with the rest of it. Boys kiss boys, girls kiss girls, some folk feel their skin doesn't match their heart, we embrace them and support them by including them in the normal everyday business of life and love (including fiction), because that's what it is. Ghettoising non-hetero love in (good) grown-up shows like QAF makes it something other and different and specifically adult. And it isn't, it's just love.

It's very hard to change the way you feel, the way you were brought up. But we all need to try, and if we really can't, we need to keep it to ourselves - for the sake of the children.

No it's because I don't want to see anyone locking lips in the show especially involving the Doctor.   It never used to be in the show and nobody missed it.   There doesn't need to be any gay (or straight) mildly sexual stuff in the show.   

[ABCwarBOT]

Not that long ago, we had protesters in my local high street, trying to get people to sign a petition to oppose equal marriage.  I heard one lady, eagerly espousing the benefits of bigotry on the grounds that the existance of gay people is far too complicated and embarrassing to explain to children. I wonder what sort of world it would be if all social policy was decided in this way.

I'm not saying LGBT people shouldn't be treated equally.

Yes, you are.  Your saying that gay people should express the same feelings as everyone else in the same way as everyone else, in case children see them and get "brainwashed" into thinking that maybe gay people are just people. 

Some people say the show's whole core is about spreading tolerance or fighting injustice and oppression but that's mainly with Nu Who that people started coming out with those old chestnuts.   

The Daleks want to destroy everyone they consider racially inferior.  The Cybermen want to destroy or assimilate everyone to build their single-minded collective.  The Sontarans are a single gendered race who desire constant war.  The premise of many older stories is "guy goes to strange world.  Discovers people there are a bit different in their way of thinking.  Deals with it".  Its always been about fighting injustice and standing against villians who want to oppress anyone who is different.

No I'm not.   I'm saying there shouldn't be any mildly sexual stuff in the show just like it used to be.    There never used to be a 'straight agenda' with the show but certain people have made an effort to put an LGBT thing in Nu Who since it came back in 2005.   And I've no doubt they've started to put more straight people kissing in the show as it gives them an excuse to put things like Captain Jack kissing the Doctor. in there.   So if anyone complains they can say "well what about Clara kissing Rory" or whatever.   So it is a form of brainwashing when it comes to the show as the show never used to be like that. 

And of course people then started saying the show's whole existence is about promoting tolerance and fighting injustice.   That was part of the show yes ---- but not the whole point or core of the show as some people say.

[Hawkmumbler]

Dude, get outside, breath some fresh air, see mental health therapist, because you sound paranoid as hell.

[ABCwarBOT]

Dude, get outside, breath some fresh air, see mental health therapist, because you sound paranoid as hell.

Well if I'm so paranoid then how come there's been many people over the past few years saying the same thing?   There's that whole "gay agenda" thing.   

[TordelBack]

The phrase you're looking for isn't 'gay agenda', it's 'human rights'. And that's something I will happily push down your throat all day long.

But luckily this time you really are in an oppressed minority (of antedilluvian fools), so I'll leave you be, mainly because I'd say we're a jellybean away from this thread bring locked, as is the fate of many Dr Who threads across time and space.

I note the irony that while I've been celebrating progress towards decency in my own little state on this thread, our most famous gay pub has been defaced with swastikas and hate phrases. Happily everyone agrees the lone scrote responsible is a waste of skin.

[Steve Green]

ABCWarbot, what do you find so wrong with a group of people getting some representation in media?

[IndigoPrime]

But luckily this time you really are in an oppressed minority (of antedilluvian fools), so I'll leave you be, mainly because I'd say we're a jellybean away from this thread bring locked, as is the fate of many Dr Who threads across time and space.

Honestly, while I'd prefer the discussion to go back specifically to Doctor Who, I'm perfectly content with my admin hat on to let this offshoot continue, as long as everything remains civil. (And there has been name-calling earlier – no more of that, please.) Diversity and normalisation is important, but moreover it's also something sf and fantasy are regularly criticised for. If the discussion becomes too overbearing, I'll simply split the thread in two.

[Hawkmumbler]

The phrase you're looking for isn't 'gay agenda', it's 'human rights'. And that's something I will happily push down your throat all day long.

But luckily this time you really are in an oppressed minority (of antedilluvian fools), so I'll leave you be, mainly because I'd say we're a jellybean away from this thread bring locked, as is the fate of many Dr Who threads across time and space.

I note the irony that while I've been celebrating progress towards decency in my own little state on this thread, our most famous gay pub has been defaced with swastikas and hate phrases. Happily everyone agrees the lone scrote responsible is a waste of skin.

Could we just take a moment to praise Torbels for being the bastion of decensy, empaphy and good maners that he is?

[TordelBack]

No need for that now Hawkmumbler, but you can all PayPal me your appreciation of my general wonderfulness at VirtueSignaller@sjw.ie.

[Hawkmumbler]

'Low chabting of "cuck" echos from over the blue remembered hills'