Wonder Woman 2017

[Rara Avis]

This is the book I was referring to btw:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2014/11/william_moulton_marston_biography_jill_lepore_s_secret_history_of_wonder.html

[JOE SOAP]

Rogue Earthlet now has 2 Wonder Woman films to catch up on.

This one has a male lead who doesn't get murdered by a woman for our pleasure – there may be a bit of whipping though.

[Rogue Earthlet]

I don't know where your comment comes from, but every review I've read, and that's many, has been totally different.

If you're referring to Wonder Woman, my comment comes from watching the film[spoiler]: the realisation that it isn't Wonder Woman + Allies=goodies Vs Germans=baddies, but rather Diana Vs War (personified in Ares, as a British toff)  is the central (if obvious) twist of the film - maybe reviewers were respecting that twist[/spoiler].

If you're referring to The Red Pill, also from watching the film, but if you want supporting comment,  the very first search result I get  on You Tube is an interview with Jaye which highlights the gormless disnigenuous crap at its heart: https://youtu.be/4vFpbjTaEYs. Apparently because victims of parental abuse can equally be male children, we need to stop blaming adult men for the (roughly) 85% of domestic violence they are responsible for, or the 50% of murdered women killed  by a current or former male partner. And on it goes.

Men are victims too, no argument, but they are still  overwhelmingly the perpetrators. Grow up and shove this contrarian bollocks.

Cassie Jaye is multiple award winning documentary maker,
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1787884/awards
She talks about what she learnt from making the Red Pill here,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LqbqUMXinQ

If you watch that you'll see that, like myself, she doesn't insult others with words like 'bollocks'. Perhaps you can learn from that.

[Rogue Earthlet]

I haven't seen WW, but I've seen the trailer and heard plenty, so here's my thoughts...

Watch the film instead. Much more exciting than watching trailers or reading reviews. Also much easier to form an opinion. Wether you like it or not.

I thought the film showed a war without sides. I can also add that I'm of (some) german origin, and I took no offence what so ever to the portrayal of germans in the film.

Your post got me thinking, what's your take on Indiana Jones then? That one must be quite bothersome.

It is.

[Frank]

Cassie Jaye is multiple award winning documentary maker,
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1787884/awards
She talks about what she learnt from making the Red Pill here,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LqbqUMXinQ

Did she learn why casualties in films depicting historical battles are overwhelmingly male? That one's a real head scratcher.

[Tiplodocus]

Cassie Jaye is multiple award winning documentary maker,
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1787884/awards

Yes, but none of those actually means that anything her films say is right (factually or morally). Disgraced banker Fred Goodwin got a knighthood along with many other awards.  Does that make you think he was right or good for the world?

Your argument for the film seems to be no more than "Some other people who I think are cleverer than me gave this person an award so it must be right" and you have no answer to the facts that Tordels presents.

I think it's you that needs to go off and learn something. 

If I was you, I'd start with learning what "contrarian bollocks" means because people will keep saying it about your arguments.

[Rara Avis]

It seems clear to me that Rogue Earthlet is trolling this thread so I don't understand why you keep engaging with this person.

[Tiplodocus]

It seems clear to me that Rogue Earthlet is trolling this thread so I don't understand why you keep engaging with this person.

Good point. I 'm out.

[Apestrife]

It seems clear to me that Rogue Earthlet is trolling this thread so I don't understand why you keep engaging with this person.

Good point. I 'm out.

Yup.

Seems to me everyone in this thread is well aware on problems lots of men are facing. Luckily, not everyone thinks it must be debated because of an action movie that happens to have woman in the title.

Btw. If anyone's interested. Since the cat is out of the bag. I think this is a good article on the topic. Helped me help my dad get someone to talk to. https://www.vice.com/sv/article/jmbnp7/a-stiff-upper-lip-is-killing-british-men-344

[Apestrife]

One thing I'm really looking forward to is watching Man of steel : Batman v Superman Dir. Cut : Wonder Woman (Yes, I know one or two of those movies aren't everyone's favorite) in succession, in time for Justice League.

I felt Wonder Woman picked up really well where BM v SM ended. Especially the way she stole the show for me. But also some themes and the shift in tone.

[Rara Avis]

One of the things I loved about WW was that the film did not [spoiler]depict the Germans as the bad guys[/spoiler]. They are seen as the victims of war (Ares) as much as anyone. This in a way can stand as a metaphor for the patriarchy which is equally damaging to men and women. This is something that everyone on this forum has acknowledged despite coming to that conclusion in different ways. This is a good thing because I think men have been left out of the gender discussion for too long.

WW is important because she is a strong female role model for women and men. She is represented as idealistic and flawed which both humanises and empowers her. In this regard she is treated like any other comic book hero. I love how she was depicted in BM v SM - as soon as she appears on screen they recognise her as an equal and show her the respect she deserves as an equal. Her gender is irrelevant only her ability to contribute to the group goal is important. If this is slightly more impressive because she is a woman it's only because there aren't enough women doing this on screen. We can't say that's true for comics in general because in general most comics have recurring strong female characters. Comics do, books do but tv and movies don't. Why is this?

Violence against men (which is on the rise) and men's health issues are things I feel strongly about. I'm not trying to kill any discussion here but trying to discuss in within the context of a movie that goes out of it's way to [spoiler]show men as being equally harmed by aggression and violence [/spoiler] especially with someone who hasn't seen it is derailing this thread.

That article reminded me of  this video. I'm not sure of the context of it - the who's, why's and where's but I always felt it summarised the key issues facing men in a humorous yet poignant way.

https://youtu.be/zZuL_2hUaoI

[sheridan]

Britain, France and the USA won WW1 without any help from super beings.

Just because it comes hot on the heels of an article about the woeful lack of credit given to Indian soldiers (not conscripts) at Dunkirk, I should point out that Britain, France and the USA were joined by Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, the Soviet Union, China, Belgium, Brazil, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Greece, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Korea and Yugoslavia.  No super beings though.  (and to illustrate the point about lack of credit where it's due, in my fact-checking for this reply I found a few of those who I had no idea had been involved).

[Smith]

Well,Serbia-Yugoslavia only came to be after WW1,but we get the point.

[Frank]

It seems clear to me that Rogue Earthlet is trolling this thread

You've got that the wrong way round.

[Rogue Earthlet]

It seems clear to me that Rogue Earthlet is trolling this thread so I don't understand why you keep engaging with this person.

I previously stated I'd stop posting here, but as others reply to my posts, I reply to them. Anything wrong with that?