“Truth? You can't handle the truth!”

[The Legendary Shark]

Either, really.

[Peter Wolf]

Can anyone handle the truth about Gadaffi and Libya and the people of Libya and who and what they overwhelmingly support ?

Can anyone handle the fact that the vast majority of Libyans support Gadaffi to the point that Gadaffi arms them en masse with no comebacks ?

Can anyone handle the fact that Gadaffi has been purposefully demonised by the MSM who print lies about pro-Gadaffi Libyans raping women en masse and the lies about attack helicopters strafing anti-Gadaffi protestors etc etc ?

Can anyone handle the fact that the MSM virtually ignored deliberately the million + pro-Gadaffi demonstration in Libya yesterday while dutifully reiterating the words and warnings of  Hitlary Clinton etc ?

Can anyone handle the fact that if US/NATO ground forces are sent into Libya which is getting closer by the day is going to be a disaster for US/NATO ground forces as they will be seen as an enemy that will be surrounded by very angry Libyans ?

Can anyone handle the fact that its an act of insanity sending ground forces into Libya ?

Libya was removed from the list of known state sponsors of terrorism in 2007 but of course if Libyans attack US/NATO forces that will be labelled as terrists and insurgents if they resist an occupation and that Gadaffi is being told to renounce power as the only way to guarantee the Libyan peoples well being as in its the only way to stop the bombing campaigns which is blackmail that is holding the Libyan people to ransom in effect.

Already the pretext for bombing campaigns against Libya has changed from [fake] humanitarianism over to Libya being a threat to national security as the humanitarian angle is now played out unless anyone still thinks humanitarianism equares to bombing campaigns against soft targets in residential areas who under the terms of the UN resolution were legitimate targets since they were and still are pro-Gadaffi supporters.

Also in todays news it transpires that Ireland is going to be bailed it again as its economy is not able to recover sufficiently even if it wanted to and therefore avioding being bailed out again so for Ireland its Hobsons Choice as its fucked either way.

[Richmond Clements]

Can anyone handle the truth about Gadaffi and Libya and the people of Libya and who and what they overwhelmingly support ?

Can anyone handle the fact that the vast majority of Libyans support Gadaffi to the point that Gadaffi arms them en masse with no comebacks ?

Can anyone handle the fact that Gadaffi has been purposefully demonised by the MSM who print lies about pro-Gadaffi Libyans raping women en masse and the lies about attack helicopters strafing anti-Gadaffi protestors etc etc ?

Can anyone handle the fact that the MSM virtually ignored deliberately the million + pro-Gadaffi demonstration in Libya yesterday while dutifully reiterating the words and warnings of  Hitlary Clinton etc ?

Can anyone handle the fact that if US/NATO ground forces are sent into Libya which is getting closer by the day is going to be a disaster for US/NATO ground forces as they will be seen as an enemy that will be surrounded by very angry Libyans ?

Can anyone handle the fact that its an act of insanity sending ground forces into Libya ?

Libya was removed from the list of known state sponsors of terrorism in 2007 but of course if Libyans attack US/NATO forces that will be labelled as terrists and insurgents if they resist an occupation and that Gadaffi is being told to renounce power as the only way to guarantee the Libyan peoples well being as in its the only way to stop the bombing campaigns which is blackmail that is holding the Libyan people to ransom in effect.

Already the pretext for bombing campaigns against Libya has changed from [fake] humanitarianism over to Libya being a threat to national security as the humanitarian angle is now played out unless anyone still thinks humanitarianism equares to bombing campaigns against soft targets in residential areas who under the terms of the UN resolution were legitimate targets since they were and still are pro-Gadaffi supporters.

Also in todays news it transpires that Ireland is going to be bailed it again as its economy is not able to recover sufficiently even if it wanted to and therefore avioding being bailed out again so for Ireland its Hobsons Choice as its fucked either way.

[JOE SOAP]

Not that easy RC.

Lockerbie is very much contested a 'truth' and not in a silly tin-foil-hat kind of way.

The Libya 'link'
So was Libya even involved in the Lockerbie bombing? The answer is that nobody knows. Libya certainly had a grim record in state-sponsored terrorism, but there was scant evidence to link it directly to Lockerbie at the Zeist trial. The links to Libya came from the suggestion that a fragment of a timing device which survived the blast was an MST-13 timer produced by a Swiss company, Mebo, which had supplied some to Libya. But it had also supplied them to East Germany; and in any event Libya could have sold them on. Libya could well have had links with the PFLP and PPF cells; but again there was no evidence of such a link.

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=in_the_back&article=122

On January 31, after an eight-month trial, three Scottish judges, sitting in a special court at Camp Zeist in the Netherlands, found a Libyan intelligence officer, Ali Al-Megrahi, guilty of the Lockerbie bombing - Britain's biggest mass murder - acquitting his colleague, Khalifa Fhimah.
Two days earlier, senior Foreign Office officials briefed a group of journalists in London. They painted a picture of a bright new chapter in Britain's relations with Colonel Gadafy's regime. They made it quite clear they assumed both the Libyans in the dock would be acquitted.

The FO officials were not alone. Most independent observers believed it was impossible for the court to find the prosecution had proved its case against Megrahi beyond reasonable doubt.

It was not only the lack of hard evidence - something the judges admitted in their lengthy judgment. The case was entwined, if the judges were right, in a sequence of remarkable coincidences.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/19/lockerbie.comment

"The endgame came down to damage limitation," said the former CIA officer Robert Baer, who took part in the original investigation, "because the evidence amassed by [Megrahi's] appeal is explosive and extremely damning to the system of justice." New witnesses would show that it was impossible for Megrahi to have bought clothes that were found in the wreckage of the Pan Am aircraft - he was convicted on the word of a Maltese shopowner who claimed to have sold him the clothes, then gave a false description of him in 19 separate statements and even failed to recognise him in the courtroom.

The new evidence would have shown that a fragment of a circuit board and bomb timer, "discovered" in the Scottish countryside and said to have been in Megrahi's suitcase, was probably a plant. A forensic scientist found no trace of an explosion on it. The new evidence would demonstrate the impossibility of the bomb beginning its journey in Malta before it was "transferred" through two airports undetected to Flight 103.

A "key secret witness" at the original trial, who claimed to have seen Megrahi and his co-accused, al-Alim Khalifa Fahimah (who was acquitted), loading the bomb on to the plane at Frankfurt, was bribed by the US authorities holding him as a "protected witness". The defence exposed him as a CIA informer who stood to collect, on the Libyans' conviction, up to $4m as a reward.

http://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/2009/09/pilger-megrahi-justice

[I, Cosh]

Not that easy RC.

Lockerbie is very much contested a 'truth' and not in a silly tin-foil-hat kind of way.

Interesting. I had thought Libyan state involvement at some level was pretty cut and dried and the arguments were over the role (or lack thereof) of Al Megrahi and his mate.

[Peter Wolf]

Despite all that Lockerbie was not the pretext for the US/NATO attacking Libya anyway as  Libya was officially forgiven for that by the international community years ago.Of course now Libya is a now a problem to national security as you cant expect there not to be a comeback from Gadaffi and Libyans.Thats a presumption and it doesnt help the cause of Gadaffi and Libyans that Gadaffi apparently threatened Europe with attacks at all and it was a very stupid thing to do as he is playing right into the hands of those who are attacking Libya and who want Gadaffi out particularly as attacks could be staged and instigated that would be blamed on Libya to legitimise the US/NATO.

Of course you might think that Libya has a legitimate reason to do so as in an eye for an eye but in this case it wasnt as bombing soft targets in Europe makes you no better than the US/NATO.What a way to weaken their own cause  as in shooting themselves in the foot and now that it has been said by Gadaffi they are now a threat to national security etc which will be capitalised on by the US/NATO etc etc.

A stupid stupid stupid threat to make and there isnt any proof as of yet that its lies and propaganda.

[Peter Wolf]

I might be able to shed some more light on the subject of Libya/Lockerbie but that wont be until Monday onwards and i cant divulge who or what my source of information is as its a sensitive matter but if i find out anything of interest i will post it but i cant promise that i can add anything to what info is already freely available.

[apologies for the double post but i ran out of editing time]

[JOE SOAP]

Not that easy RC.

Lockerbie is very much contested a 'truth' and not in a silly tin-foil-hat kind of way.

Interesting. I had thought Libyan state involvement at some level was pretty cut and dried and the arguments were over the role (or lack thereof) of Al Megrahi and his mate.

Nothing is cut-and-dried with Megrahi, even the reasons for his release.

[Richmond Clements]

Not that easy RC.

Lockerbie is very much contested a 'truth' and not in a silly tin-foil-hat kind of way.

Interesting. I had thought Libyan state involvement at some level was pretty cut and dried and the arguments were over the role (or lack thereof) of Al Megrahi and his mate.

Nothing is cut-and-dried with Megrahi, even the reasons for his release.

Cheers, Joe- some interesting reading there.

[vzzbux]

The fact that the French are illegally (Although there is a clause that they are arming civvies to protect themselves) supplying the rebels with arms doesn't really surprise me in the least. If it was another nation the French would be up in arms (pardon the pun).
http://aljazeera.co.uk/news/africa/2011/06/2011629234644934286.html
Devils advocate: Surely there are pro Gaderffii civvies who need to protect themselves

The French did back the UN into starting operations against Lybia.
http://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2011/03/19/french-air-force-in-action-over-libya-at-start-of-broad-anti-qaddafi-operation/

The whole affair is turning into one big cluster fuck and can only get worse.




V

[Matt Timson]

Not that easy RC.

Lockerbie is very much contested a 'truth' and not in a silly tin-foil-hat kind of way.

Interesting. I had thought Libyan state involvement at some level was pretty cut and dried and the arguments were over the role (or lack thereof) of Al Megrahi and his mate.

Nothing is cut-and-dried with Megrahi, even the reasons for his release.

Cheers, Joe- some interesting reading there.

Hand in your internet 'blustering buffoon' card, immediately!

[Richmond Clements]

Not that easy RC.

Lockerbie is very much contested a 'truth' and not in a silly tin-foil-hat kind of way.

Interesting. I had thought Libyan state involvement at some level was pretty cut and dried and the arguments were over the role (or lack thereof) of Al Megrahi and his mate.

Nothing is cut-and-dried with Megrahi, even the reasons for his release.

Cheers, Joe- some interesting reading there.

Hand in your internet 'blustering buffoon' card, immediately!

Errr- by 'interesting reading' I of course mean, Fuck you asshole! I don't need you to tell me what to think!

(Phew, I think I got away with that one...)

[Peter Wolf]

What is going on is the US/NATO/UN are just doing what they like regardless of anything or anyone else and it demonstrates the problem with world govt and a self appointed supreme authority who are answerable to noone except themselves but they are being held accountable and are being scrutinised.

Another stupid thing that the UK and France issued death threats to Gadaffi stating that they were sending in a team of assassins to get rid of Gadaffi which was very stupid because if you announce it then you lose the element of surprise but having said that its not the first time the UK[amongst others] has attempted to assassinate Gadaffi and they have failed every time.Also the security around Gadaffi will be very very very tight and anyone attempting to assassinate Gadaffi wont even get close enough and there is no chance of infiltrating Gadaffis security forces and if any of them are unlucky enough to be caught they will either be imprisoned if they are lucky or sent back to where they came from in bits.

Gadiffi is proving very difficult to get rid of which is frustrating the UN/US/NATO forces so they will get more and more desperate as the days and weeks go by and their last resort is to send in ground forces as the US/UN/NATO will not back down or retreat.

I am hoping that the military will refuse as its a suicide mission.The military in Afghanistan and Iraq were initially welcomed by a large amount of the population of those countries so its not hard to imagine the consequences of being unwelcome except for a minority of western backed rebel forces of which a percentage have switched to supporting Gadaffi as they realised that they were losing and because Gadaffi gave them an amnesty.

[Matt Timson]

Wait... Are we talking about Gadaffi, here?

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

What is going on is the US/NATO/UN are just doing what they like

Fixed that for you.

The UN doesn't do anything. If Aliens invaded tomorrow*, the UN would probably take three months to decide that they should freeze all their assets. A pointless, impotent organization is what they are

*who's to say they're not already among us?