“Truth? You can't handle the truth!”

[Richmond Clements]

I admit that i am biased towards Gadaffi

Then you are a fucking idiot.

[Old Tankie]

If I'm living in tyranny, Sharky, I'm all for it.  I don't think my grandfather would agree with your description of tyranny, mate.  He had the numbers tattooed on his arm by real tyranny.

[GordonR]

If I'm living in tyranny, Sharky, I'm all for it.  I don't think my grandfather would agree with your description of tyranny, mate.  He had the numbers tattooed on his arm by real tyranny.

You know, I rarely - if, in fact, ever - agree with a single political opinion you've come out with. Except this one.

Buffoons who talk on public forums in this country about how we live in a dictatorship/tyrannical system don't even fucking know they're born.

[JOE SOAP]

Most of the time it's a misaligned frustration borne of the collusion of 'good' governments with the 'naughty' ones and the resulting feeling of impotency to ever change it.

[Peter Wolf]

I admit that i am biased towards Gadaffi and i never thought i would support a dictator but there is a first time for everything.

Peter, you know that as a man of strongly voiced opinions, you'd be dead, in jail or disappeared long ago if you lived in Gaddafi's Libya?  Despite the many flaws of western plutocracies they do tend to let us rabbit on in public, protest, and (while I know you think it makes no difference) even vote on occasion.  It's hard to hear someone voicing their support for someone who'd have them executed on the spot.

I would blame the US/UN/NATO for my support of Gadaffi and i am expected to support the US/NATO/UN but i chose to talk up Gadaffi instead of falling in line with the evil brutal dictator rhetoric as obviously i dont support for what falls under the description of the US/NATO /UN and their plan for Libya.I dont support Gadaffi wholesale as i was just pointing out the positive aspects rather then the negatives and i wont condemn outright purely on the basis that you pointed out although i am aware of all that.As i am an outsider of Libya then i have the luxury of being objective about Gadaffi  and i am not an apologist.

Thank you Globalist western Plutocrats for letting me speak my mind.Thank you so much as i am so grateful as you are so powerful and benevolent but at the same time they would try to remove freedom of speech anytime if they didnt fear the backlash that would ensue but at the same time they doing other things like financially raping us and all the rest that i wont go into.Free speech is an inalienable right.

I admit that i am biased towards Gadaffi

Then you are a fucking idiot.

.

Thats not very condusive for intelligent chat and debate.

There are degrees of tyranny so quoting extreme examples of tyranny doesnt cancel out less extreme examples of tyranny or creeping and encroaching tyranny unless you dont understand the subject.

[JOE SOAP]

I would blame the US/UN/NATO for my support of Gadaffi and i am expected to support the US/NATO/UN but i chose to talk up Gadaffi instead of falling in line with the evil brutal dictator rhetoric as obviously i dont support for what falls under the description of the US/NATO /UN and their plan for Libya.I dont support Gadaffi wholesale as i was just pointing out the positive aspects rather then the negatives and i wont condemn outright purely on the basis that you pointed out although i am aware of all that.As i am an outsider of Libya then i have the luxury of being objective about Gadaffi  and i am not an apologist.

I don't understand why you feel the need to choose a side, there is no logic in your thinking other than what you choose to ignore and leave out, it's a very reactionary/typical response from a propangadised individual -thought to take a side, doesn't matter which one, as long as it's not understood- who reponds in terms of reflex and feelings but without depth or degree of pragmatic thought.

Cut-to-the-chase, they are both bad for Libya.

[JOE SOAP]

I would blame the US/UN/NATO for my support of Gadaffi and i am expected to support the US/NATO/UN but i chose to talk up Gadaffi instead of falling in line with the evil brutal dictator rhetoric as obviously i dont support for what falls under the description of the US/NATO /UN and their plan for Libya.I dont support Gadaffi wholesale as i was just pointing out the positive aspects rather then the negatives and i wont condemn outright purely on the basis that you pointed out although i am aware of all that.As i am an outsider of Libya then i have the luxury of being objective about Gadaffi  and i am not an apologist.

I don't understand why you feel the need to choose a side, there is no logic in your thinking other than what you choose to ignore and leave out, it's a very reactionary/typical response from a propangadised individual -thought to take a side, doesn't matter which one, as long as it's not understood- who reponds in terms of reflex and feelings but without depth or degree of real pragmatic thought.

Cut-to-the-chase, they are both bad for Libya.

[Peter Wolf]

I would blame the US/UN/NATO for my support of Gadaffi and i am expected to support the US/NATO/UN but i chose to talk up Gadaffi instead of falling in line with the evil brutal dictator rhetoric as obviously i dont support for what falls under the description of the US/NATO /UN and their plan for Libya.I dont support Gadaffi wholesale as i was just pointing out the positive aspects rather then the negatives and i wont condemn outright purely on the basis that you pointed out although i am aware of all that.As i am an outsider of Libya then i have the luxury of being objective about Gadaffi  and i am not an apologist.

I don't understand why you feel the need to choose a side, there is no logic in your thinking other than what you choose to ignore and leave out, it's a very reactionary/typical response from a propangadised individual -thought to take a side, doesn't matter which one, as long as it's not understood- who reponds in terms of reflex and feelings but without depth or degree of pragmatic thought.

Cut-to-the-chase, they are both bad for Libya.

You must be talking to someone else.Keep your condescending BS about being propagandised thanks and the rest of it.I have already explained that i am aware of the negatives of Gadaffi as i chose to talk up Gadaffi/the Gadaffi regime so thats hardly responding in terms of reflex.

The flipside to this is if i had chosen to demonise and talk about the negative aspects of the Gadaffi regime and Gadaffi then i would not have been criticised and if i said that i supported NATO etc bombing the murdering dictator i would not have been criticised or it would have been a lot less likely.

"I dont understand why you feel the need to choose a side"

Its because i sympathise with their predicament and because of the nature of those that are bombing their country and i am not looking for yours or anyones approval.

Problem with that anyone ?

[M.I.K.]

Do you sympathise with Libya or with Gadaffi?

[The Legendary Shark]

Buffoons who talk on public forums in this country about how we live in a dictatorship/tyrannical system don't even fucking know they're born.

You're quite right, very few of us know we are born. Everything we need as an individual is made available to us, more or less. We have to pay for everything of course but it's all there, more or less. But that's not freedom, is it? That's just infrastructure.

Did your government ever set out to deliberately deprive you of shelter, food, water or medicine? Of course not. Does your government sit up at nights dreaming up ever more elaborate plots for complete domination? Of course not. Is your government tyrannical? Well, I'm not exactly certain what our government is. It's not a complete tyranny because we have freedom of speech and Magna Carta and suchlike - but then again it's not a real democracy either because they never ask us whether we want to go to war or not. They just do it. Did your grandfather fight for that? I know mine didn't.

I could point out tyrannical elements in our government, of course I could. I could point out good things, too - I love the idea of the House of Lords, for example, and the constitutional monarchy. But these things are no longer holding the sway they should in our country. They have been subverted, subtly and slowly, by small groups of powerful people.

Every penny in tax you pay goes into paying off the national debt - that is, money a sovereign country (ours) has borrowed at interest from private banks that create the money out of nothing. So, who has more say in that relationship? The government that should serve the people is beholden to the private banks. If you suddenly can't pay for your mortgage, it doesn't matter in the slightest if all your children and your spouse vote to keep the house, the bank will take it off you.

This is the tyranny we have. It holds us back because money is the most effective social control ever devised, but only if created and controlled by privately owned banks and financial institutions. It is also the most effective social energizer ever devised, but only if created and controlled by a society, by a government.

The tyranny we live under may not sport a natty moustache or march people into death camps, but it does bomb innocents in your name. It contaminates pregnant women with uranium in your name. It helps the richest people in the country get richer at your expense.

If you will not see it, how can you ever be free? If you will not see it, how can we ever fix it? It wouldn't be hard to fix, not at all. But every day that passes makes it harder.

[Richmond Clements]

Thats not very condusive for intelligent chat and debate.

I wasn't chatting or debating, just telling you what I think.

There are degrees of tyranny

Are there? I suppose there are degrees of murder too? Degrees of rape? Degrees of racism?

[COMMANDO FORCES]

You know everyone's looking up the degrees of murder now Rich 

[Peter Wolf]

Thats not very condusive for intelligent chat and debate.

I wasn't chatting or debating, just telling you what I think.

There are degrees of tyranny

Are there? I suppose there are degrees of murder too? Degrees of rape? Degrees of racism?

I didnt say you were chatting or debating as i said that your comment was not condusive to chat and debate.Hopefully i wont have to explain that again.

Also there are degrees of murder recognised by law as you can look them up.There are degrees of racism as well which is obvious.I dont know about rape but thats probably more cut and dried but its not something i have ever read up on.

Degrees are like a sliding scale and there are degrees of tyranny as there are various regimes past and present that have very different ways of enforcing tyranny and in how people are treated and some dictatorships are very harsh while others are milder or more benevolent but they all have one thing in common which is zero tolerance for dissent.

Do you sympathise with Libya or with Gadaffi?

Both under the circumstances.If was any other country i would be supportive of them if they were being bombed and invaded by the US/NATO.As for dictators i wouldnt support any dictator by default like i didnt support Saddam Hussein and if it was North Korea i wouldnt support KimJungIl but because Gadaffi and the Gadaffi regime have positive aspects i support them on that basis but not on the basis of abuses of power.

[Emperor]

You know everyone's looking up the degrees of murder now Rich 

Indeed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Degrees_of_murder_by_country

[JOE SOAP]

The flipside to this is if i had chosen to demonise and talk about the negative aspects of the Gadaffi regime and Gadaffi then i would not have been criticised and if i said that i supported NATO etc bombing the murdering dictator i would not have been criticised or it would have been a lot less likely.

That's a different matter though, if true, and doesn't really equate with the notion of supporting Gadaffi himself.

Its because i sympathise with their predicament and because of the nature of those that are bombing their country and i am not looking for yours or anyones approval.

Problem with that anyone ?

Considering Libya is not Gadaffi, that's a different issue akin to who would you support in Greece, the people or the Government/Troika?