(Atten: Rebellion) 2000AD is the new Marvel

[Wils]

As with all the other Tarantino-based threads about how valuble Progs are and his rampant stockpiling, I find myself doing the Nescafe hand gesture at my monitor yet again.

[Buddy]

And apart from anything else, how is anyone to know what will or won't become 'collectable' in the future.

How was anyone to know that Action Comics would be the birth of the modern comic? Or that that funny lookin guy in the blue and red crawling up walls in Amazing Fantisy #15 would evetually amount to anything or, closer to today, that some young upstart called Todd McFarlane would redifine an industry when he started working on same wall crawler.

I'm only plucking these examples out of the air, any number of books/artists/writers could fill the names.

The list of 'if I only knew that.....' is endless, as is the amount of crap you'd have to 'invest in' to come up with a winner.

Jeeses, I thought CRISIS was gonna be a sure thing!!! I now have signed issues of No.s 1-5 I can hardly give away!!!

Speculation is fine but I wouldn't advise anyone choosing comics as an investment.

My personal rule regarding collecting comics is this:-

BUY'EM IF YOU LIKE'EM... IF YOU DON'T, DON'T!!!

Which is why I have thousands of comics worth very little, sure I'd love to have a complete run of PREACHER (added to the fact I know Garth Ennis and could get him to sign them all, thus increasing their 'collectability') but I didn't buy it because it didn't like it, simple as that.

If you want to invest in something, buy a house.

Personally I couldn't give a flying fig what issue Senister/Dexter first appeared, they're still shit!

[W. R. Logan]

How about the variants of Progs 700, 800, 801 & 802 how much are they worth, you could go really mad and say how about the ones that had free truprint envelopes inside and if its not in there is it as collectable as one that still has?

Hate hoarders who argue about keeping them in good nick for prosperity, hoarding is hoarding and only ever done to make money.

La Placa Rifa,
http://www.2000ad.nu/classof79/>W. R. Logan.

http://www.2000ad.nu/classof79/images/Co79_logo.gif>

[malmo]

such a greedy, money orientated view. if you like it, buy it but dont pay over the cover price. 551 quid for a comic, come on. be better to wait for a grafic novel.
   ps, just read halo jones, well worth the wait, dudes

[Marbles]

Read them, scan the decent stories onto your HDD archive and give them away.

'Ownership' of stuff like this is a chimera. Read, enjoy, move on.

[Tarantino]

As usual my thread has created some heated responses and I will leap to my own defence.

Some boarders have jumped to the conclusion that since I am buying many copies of 2000AD, that I am hyping the comic in order to increase the value of my own collection.

I am happy to see the value of my collection increase, as would most of you if you are honest. But I would like to make one thing clear. I have been collecting and reading comics for 30 years now and thought that I would never stop. What happened to the American comic industry really pissed me off and aside from the Uncanny X-Men, the only title I read now is 2000AD.

I am hyping 2000AD since I believe that it has the potential to create a whole other Universe, to rival Marvel and DC. I think most characters have the potential to have their own comic printed each month, with original stories and artists. No cross overs and no duplicate covers. It would be just like in the early days of comic collecting. Everyone chooses their favourite titles to purchase each month. 2000AD would be the flagship issue and launch new stories and characters and the comics should be American size. 2000AD has been apart of my life for 26 years and I will do all I can to help increase its profile. I even move all the copies of 2000AD and the Judge Dredd Megazine to a more visible position when I am in Smiths.

In response to the comments regarding why Rebellion should create a demand for back issues, why shouldn?t they sell back issues at Dreddcons, this can only help to increase the profile of 2000AD in general.

And one last point, I may be buying many back issues and aside from the spare 1 - 500 that I recently sold to Blackthrash, I have never actually sold any other 2000ADs. I also have all my Marvel and DC comics from when I was a kid and I am not selling them.

What I am trying to say is I am not buying and selling. I genuinely love the comic and would love to see it's true potential realized, just for the fact that I would like to see 2000AD at the top of the tree, looking down at Marvel and DC.

Sadly, this would take a big investment on behalf of Rebellion and they would then have to crack the American market. I think it would work and I would love to find a backer who would invest in the idea. This will probably never happen but I can dream.

Finally, for all of you who think investing in 2000AD is a dirty thing to do. That's what makes the world go round and motivates people. The more successful 2000AD is, the more money Rebellion makes and the better and more creative people it can employee. Then, instead of launching and loosing new talent, they might be able to retain writers and artists. If this happens then the quality of the current issues will increase and we will all be winners.

[opaque]

>In response to the comments regarding why Rebellion should create a demand for back issues, why shouldn?t they sell back issues at Dreddcons, this can only help to increase the profile of 2000AD in general

[The Amstor Computer]

I don't usually go in for fisking posts, but I'll do it this once:

"I am happy to see the value of my collection increase, as would most of you if you are honest."

Not sure about that. I'd bet that most of the people who post here are unlikely to sell their collections unless forced to; they bought them to read and enjoy, not as an investment.

"In response to the comments regarding why Rebellion should create a demand for back issues, why shouldn?t they sell back issues at Dreddcons, this can only help to increase the profile of 2000AD in general."

Huh? Surely Dreddcon is *already* raising the profile of 2000AD? Selling new & old issues at *other* comic festivals might raise the mag's profile, but doing the same at Dreddcon is simply preaching to the converted.

"What I am trying to say is I am not buying and selling."

Well, you'll have to excuse me, because that's exactly the impression I got from your previous posts.

"Finally, for all of you who think investing in 2000AD is a dirty thing to do. That's what makes the world go round and motivates people. The more successful 2000AD is, the more money Rebellion makes and the better and more creative people it can employee."

Noble sentiment, but how on Earth do you connect buying and selling back issues - from which Rebellion get exactly nothing - to investing in 2000AD? ?551 for issue 1, and not a penny goes to Rebellion. No cash, no exposure and no benefit for Rebellion.

[paulvonscott]

This is like sort of fucking pyramid sales scam, does anyone take this stuff on face value?

Rebellion have a million and one better things to do than fuck about promoting sales of back issues from which they earn FUCK ALL.  As you say, almost all issues are worth at the most a quid, so they can't even make a fortune reprinting them.

If all my 2000AD's were suddenly worthless tomorrow, I wouldn't give a damn.

[Woolly]

Uh oh, im sensing bad vibes again....


C'mon people, if tarantino wants to sell/buy issues then thats his business. And if that was the case then i'd say good luck to him and i hope he gets a good price.

I agree that comics should be made to be read and read again, as opposed to being a collectors investment, but thats just my opinion.
And i have been wrong many times before!

All im trying to say is that we all have our own opinions and goals, and theres no need to abuse a fellow boarder just because we may not agree with them.



Unless its Keane.


Wul (full of festive cheer!)

[Priv8eye]

I have to agree with paulvonscott and many of the other boarders here.  People on this board on the whole (except for a few exceptions) are collecting for their own pleasure.

I myself have a large pile of comics that are probably worth nothing, were never that popular in the first place, and have solely because I enjoy them and would not part with them even if they were worth money.

I can only belaive that shouting about the pile of back issues that one has and how much they are/could be worth can only be boasting or weak attempts to push prices up for own selfish purposes.

[Devons Daddy]

i do not think tarrantino has the intention of talking up his business.

here is a good place to discuss and ask for reasonable debate on the subject.
if he was out to drive up prices there are plenty of more suitable places to do so.
i collect for pleasure. firstly.
though i have openly said i will sell all at some stage. keeping a full set of 1-20 for my own pleasure.

i collect at the current prices only  progs 1-20. average cost about a fiver each i would say. cant spend them can i. so as my pile gets bigger its like a pile of five pound notes in a fixed deposit.some day i will sell. cash in my pile of unspendable money. and put it towards my lease on the coffee shop.

but tarrantino is differnt.he is a fan. who has the finacail resources to buy up and store.
some do it with stocks and shares.its a gamble, but nothing wrong with that.
if you wish to read back progs. rebellion have taken a very good step of graphic novels,.the thrill archives and so on.so we can enjoy the stories.

pyramid selling? or investment in a product you have an interest and knowledge of.
i go with the latter,
if his investment goes south.well thats life.
if he arrives at Dreddcon 15 in BMW with the number plate JD1
you can refuse should he offer to buy you a beer.

of course should he be driving his BMW convertable with numberplate JD1. i will happily be offering you chaps bitter chocolate fondue and mugs of mocha chinnios free at my chocoaholics cafe.
:~)
you enjoy your investment mate.
maybe some day you and i will be laughing maybe some day members of this board will be saying
TOLD YOU SO!

[paulvonscott]

"Uh oh, im sensing bad vibes again...."

Not from me I should add.  The swearing is in there purely because I was drunk.

I came to the thread thinking that it might actually have something to say about the comics and those funny strip things that are inside them, and how  maybe the attitude or progress or even running of the comic was somehow comparable with Marvel at some point.

In fact it's just another attempt to boost the 2000AD back issue prices, and an incredibly blatant one, by someone with a vested interest.

As a thread, and a discussion just on the merits of collecting it's fine enough up until...

"Apart from prog 2, all the other issues, from 30 onwards, can currently be picked up for a few pounds, many are being sold unwittingly at comic conventions for 50p - ?1.00"

Well, I'd say that the truth is that these comics are actually beeing sold to people unwittingly for much more than they are worth.  ?551 for prog 1?  That person was an idiot with too much money.

Well, there are people who have probably bought them for a few quid (often traders, I know, I've heard them boasting about how they've fleeced some poor sod of a complete collection for practically pennies) and that's the thing, these are 'middle-man' prices, boosted artificially, if you make the effort you can get them for much less.  Traders certainly do.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if auction prices weren't boosted by traders themselves.  I mean, what will it cost them, ?20 or ?30, to raise the price of their progs by hundreds of pounds by bidding on their own comics?

Prices are certainly boosted on e-bay where traders buy rare progs going cheap, so that you have to pay a minimum for them.

I think it's a shame that the classifieds section isn't used more by fans to sell their progs direct to other fans without a middle-man.

One thing that I believe is true is that it's a mistake to think that 2000AD fans behave in the same way as American comic book collectors.  Out of all the people know who have old 2000AD's, very few care how much they are worth or even that their comics aren't in mint condition.  

In addition there is a lot of reprint stuff available relatively cheaply for 2000AD which isn't true of many American comics.  

I doubt very much that all but a tiny amount of readers actually care about having a variant annual for ?5, never mind ?50, and the first annual is NOT worth ?15-?20, a fiver at the most and you could probably get it for less (in perfect condition).

"The more successful 2000AD is, the more money Rebellion makes and the better and more creative people it can employee. Then, instead of launching and loosing new talent, they might be able to retain writers and artists. If this happens then the quality of the current issues will increase and we will all be winners."

Well, maybe, but that is in no way affected by back issues.  That situation might cause back issue prices to rise (oh, I see what you're getting at...) but then it might not make as much difference as you think.

"What I am trying to say is I am not buying and selling."

You are buying and hoarding comics to sell later, I can understand why you might want to do it, but to actually pretend you aren't is incredible.  You are hoovering up as many rare progs as you can so you can exploit people on this board at a later date.  Some chap who I talked to at a recent Mart asked me if I had a spare 1208, I said I didn't (though if I found one I'd let him know and he could pay what I paid for it), and it was getting more difficult than it should be because people like you are buying them for 50p and stockpiling them.  His comments are largely unprintable.

If you seperate out all your attempts to boost the prices of back progs and your investment, from you love of 2000AD, it might be possible to read your comments at face value, but currently they are as worthless as the insincere smile on a salesman.  It's not as if you turn up and say anything good about the comic that doesn't boost the profile of your comic bunker.

[Slippery PD]

Heh, Tarantino you do seem to start threads that you know will bring a large number of angry responses especially from PVS :)

However, over the last 3 or 4 months you havent really posted anything else except those to do with comic prices.  In all honesty, I cant remember you posting any non-price related posts and this is part fo the problem.  You may have no desire to boost the price of old progs.  From what you have written, that seems unlikely, but its christmas and Im willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.  

So join in some of the other threads on the board, tell people what you got for xmas (you can lie if you want), join in on the boarders awards (when I get my arse in gear - sorry dave its coming:)), start a thread about the new savage series, the direction JD is going, you get the idea.

Id suggest that most people on the board arent that bothered about back issue prices and keep their collection as a labour of love.  In fact one boarder has recently given away prog 2 and prog 3 as a prize.  So try and join in, its not too bad here really......      

Yer "incoherent ramblings" Slips

[Priv8eye]

Okay, following the last couple of comments I went back and re-read the previous posts....from the start....(took a little while).

I have no problem with people collecting back issues of a comic for whatever purpose they wish.  Somehow I don't see the old idea of multiple covers, multiple first issues, issue 0's getting of the ground in such a big way again either - espesciallly in this country where, as stront692 pointed out the sales system is very differant to what happens in America.

Re-reading your initial thread it appeard at first to be about promoting tooth to its maximum potential and almost turning it into an American clone (not a criticism of American comics in anyway).  Again, given the way the system here works I feel that would not work in this country, and again it could more than likely lead to the downfall of tooth with  its resources spread too wide.  How much of each individual title would have to be sold to maintain the series? Perhaps someone out there could tell us.

Also, what would happen to tooth?  If each character/title has its own series then what goes into tooth?  The also-rans?  Surely the same character could not run twice at the sme time in differant formats and still be coherant.  I am aware that this happens to a degree in America but then they would not work on differant formats (say one weekly and the other monthly, when they did with Action it didn't work).

As to the situation regarding the back issues, the point being of a comic leaping in value depends on the demand for that comic.  It cannot be guessed at (as you point out)and so I am sorry to say that I feel "what is the point?".  I cant justify buying up comics, new or used, for the sole purpose that one day they *might* become valuable.  That is okay if you have the time, money and energy to devote to it but then it does come back down to that money issue.

I have no wish to offend, and if , in the future, you do manage to make your fortune from these comics then I will be only too pleased to toast your good fortune.