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General Chat => Books & Comics => Topic started by: Smith on 20 April, 2017, 07:25:15 pm

Title: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 20 April, 2017, 07:25:15 pm
http://ew.com/books/2017/04/20/dc-comics-superstars-unite-for-new-dark-matter-line/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter (http://ew.com/books/2017/04/20/dc-comics-superstars-unite-for-new-dark-matter-line/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter)
We might as well start a thread,right?
Anyhow,we have another imprint coming;which is a bit like Elseworld I guess?And I see they borowed a bit from Valiant. :)
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: IndigoPrime on 20 April, 2017, 08:03:27 pm
Dark Matter: no-one knows what it is, why it exists, or what the point of it is.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Colin YNWA on 20 April, 2017, 09:13:12 pm
Well there's only one creative line-up there that really catches my imagination

Quote
September will also see the launch of The Silencer. Written by Dan Abnett and drawn by John Romita Jr., that book will focus on Honor Guest, the former world’s deadliest assassin now trying for a quiet life in the suburbs until (surprise!) her former life comes back to haunt her, and she must become The Silencer to protect her family.

But man its a cliche ridden write up... mind with Dabnett on fire like he is at the moment you gotta think he's got something up his concept sleeve!
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 20 April, 2017, 11:52:33 pm
Isn't that the plot to Garth Ennis/Al Ewing/Michael Carrol's Jennifer Blood?

The lack of any apparent A-game material from the creatives suggests that this is just the usual mini-imprint that publishers throw out there now and then.  I'm not sure why they feel the need considering that DC seems to be getting good word of mouth lately.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: The Adventurer on 21 April, 2017, 01:48:56 am
I feel like this idea belongs with Ellis's The Wild Storm. Reinterpreting old ideas.

Or Tangent Comics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangent_Comics).

Some of the talent looks interesting. I'll probably take a look a few #1s.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 21 April, 2017, 05:45:15 am
Dark Matter: no-one knows what it is, why it exists, or what the point of it is.
Yeah,Im not sure if thats terrible marketing or great marketing.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 21 April, 2017, 06:11:38 am
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/138058-dc-to-pick-up-diversity-ball-after-marvel-dropped-it.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/138058-dc-to-pick-up-diversity-ball-after-marvel-dropped-it.html)
Seems like you cant really discuss comics without getting to the topic of diversity.
Okay,there were probably better ways of saying it,but I get the approach.Its better to present new characters instead of the legacy approach Marvel is using.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: JamesC on 21 April, 2017, 09:47:27 am
The Silencer, The New Challengers and Damage all sound like good fun to me.
There are plenty of cliches here for sure but cliches never hurt fun comics.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 21 April, 2017, 01:18:41 pm
Okay,there were probably better ways of saying it,but I get the approach.Its better to present new characters instead of the legacy approach Marvel is using.

I can see it from both ends: on one hand, new audiences deserve to have their own characters that represent their generation rather than just knock-offs of Wolverine or Batman, but on the other, new characters take a while to become established - if they ever do.  A reader might put a lot of emotional investment in what they see as the new Spider-Man, only to find they're actually the new Sleepwalker.

Whatever you think of them now, DC pioneered diversity and legacy characters to such an extent that a lot of their most vocally butthurt fanboys railing at Dan Didio's tenure as EiC are millennials who grew up with legacy/diversity characters as "their" Atom, "their" Batgirl, "their" Flash, "their" Green Arrow, "their"  Supergirl, and so on, and when legacy/diversity characters were killed off or turned evil just to hand the mantles back to CIS planks of wood like Hal Jordan or Barry Allen, fandom usually took it poorly.  That's a kind of progress, I guess.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 21 April, 2017, 02:04:04 pm
And for every kid who grew up with DCAU(myself included) John Stewart is THE Green Lantern.
Actually that's a pretty good example,even if I risk being misunderstood.Dini and Timm thought JLA needed a bit more diversity,so instead of Hal Jordan and Aquaman we got John Stewart and Hawkgirl.And it worked better that way,because they were actual characters,not black Hal and female Aquaman.Which is kinda the opposite of Marvels approach.
But like you said,an established costume is easier to sell.And you get some mainstream attention that way.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 21 April, 2017, 02:31:16 pm
I got into DC during the post-Knightfall pre-Infinite Crisis era, so current DC just looks like some kind of Elseworlds maxiseries to me.  It doesn't help that a lot of the transitional stories that wrote out characters like Cassandra Cain Batgirl or reintroduced the 'Superman's Cousin' version of Supergirl weren't just damaging the properties getting fandom's dander up, they were also objectively terrible comics.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: The Adventurer on 21 April, 2017, 02:33:32 pm
Cassandra Cain is a predominat character in Dectective Comics right now. I think.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 21 April, 2017, 02:57:42 pm
I've no more interest in that than late 90s Flash fans have in Teen Titans, but I recall my DC fanboy reaction was something along the lines of "so they put Batwoman - who has been a superhero for six months - in charge of a team of people who have been superheroes for years?
FUCK YOUR SHITTY FANFICTION COMIC."
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 21 April, 2017, 03:01:33 pm
From what I saw,Detective Comics is the best Batman book currently.But I kinda gave up on it,so something might have changed.
What Im currently following-Superman,Action Comics,Flash and The Wild Storm.All of them pretty great so far.Unfortunately,crossovers,so Im forced to read Kings Batman now. ::)
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 21 April, 2017, 03:48:51 pm
From what I saw,Detective Comics is the best Batman book currently.But I kinda gave up on it,so something might have changed.
What Im currently following-Superman,Action Comics,Flash and The Wild Storm.All of them pretty great so far.Unfortunately,crossovers,so Im forced to read Kings Batman now. ::)

I'm not sure what to think about The Wild Storm yet, but it may ultimately be pointless (as prior Wildstorm reboots have been). Especially as it compares poorly to the similar but more interesting Image series Nowhere Men (without the Wildstorm black ops/conspiracy angle) by Eric Stephenson, which has less to do with plot specifics than the feel of the storytelling. Planetary may have been Ellis' magnum opus for DC/Wildstorm, so we probably can't expect the likes of that again.

It's kind of a cheat to call Detective Comics the best Batman book, because it's interesting in that it's focusing on all the related bat-family franchise characters except Batman. I'd say the main weakness here is that Basil Karlo's seeking redemption comes right out of left field and feels forced. If they wanted a scary monster-guy for the team, Kirk Langstrom has a stronger history connection and greater credibility as a choice. If they just wanted someone with shape-changing powers, Metamorpho would have been a more logical choice, going back to his involvement with the Outsiders. And of course Tim Drake really isn't dead, but why the need to shuffle him off the playing field so quickly?

I don't know if Batwoman is out now because she spun off into her own title. Amazing artwork by the incredible Steve Epting, with an underwhelming story to back it up.

And as far as the Dark Matter imprint goes, I've tried to stifle my yawn.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 21 April, 2017, 04:04:19 pm
Oh, and Mxyzptlk explains it all: Pre-Flashpoint DCU? New52 DCU? One and the same. :o Because he said so, so don't think too hard about it.  :-\ If it seems impossible, it probably has something to do with Ozymandias and Dr. Manhattan. Maybe if someone can find one of them they can explain where the Psycho-Pirate's Medusa Mask came from.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 21 April, 2017, 04:09:31 pm
I havent even heard about Nowhere men till now,so I cant judge;but I would say Wildstorm has a bit of an edge there due to (however small) existing fanbase and name recognition.And Warren Ellis.
I dont think anyone expexts a new Planetary.I just want a good book and so far I liked Wild Storm.And I really hope it doesnt get canceled.
Unrelated to that-BRING BACK HITMAN! :)
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 21 April, 2017, 06:22:36 pm
Hey, Jim Lee's the co-publisher. That means he gets to publish whatever he wants, regardless of whether or not anyone buys it. The Wild Storm tells you right on the cover how many issues it will run. Compared to most other DC comics it's not so bad, but somehow I doubt whether it will have the kind of impact on readers that The Authority did when Ellis wrote that (to bring it down to a more realistic comparison than Planetary).

Hitman lived on in the form of a couple of recent spinoff miniseries from 2015/2016: All-Star Section Ei8ht, and Six-Pack & Dogwelder: Hard-Travelin' Heroz, under Hitman original writer Garth Ennis.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 21 April, 2017, 06:28:27 pm
Well,not every comic can be Watchmen.
I am aware of those,ofc.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 21 April, 2017, 06:46:18 pm
Well,not every comic can be Watchmen.
I am aware of those,ofc.

Not every year can be 1986, either. Probably only one, so timing might have a lot to do with it. There are a heck of a lot of comics being published, and it's very few years that get a Watchmen, let alone a Dark Knight Returns and a Crisis on Infinite Earths, too.

1986 had a lot of comics published that no one remembers now, and I expect that pattern will continue in 2017, so lacking anything like the aforementioned titles on the horizon, that would be most of them. Maybe even ALL of them.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Colin YNWA on 21 April, 2017, 09:16:29 pm
I havent even heard about Nowhere men till now,so I cant judge;

You should read it so you can, and judge it GREAT. A fantastic read blighted by delays alas.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 22 April, 2017, 05:28:55 am
Okay,its on The List now. :)
@Positronic; Im not sure Im following you at this point.What Im trying to say is: Wild Storm is not Authority or Planetary or Wildcats 3.0 and it doesnt try to be.As its own thing,I think it stands pretty well.And thats the important part.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 22 April, 2017, 05:49:30 am
Okay,its on The List now. :)
@Positronic; Im not sure Im following you at this point.What Im trying to say is: Wild Storm is not Authority or Planetary or Wildcats 3.0 and it doesnt try to be.As its own thing,I think it stands pretty well.And thats the important part.

Well, it's like The Authority in that it shares the same author, and that The Authority was a soft reboot of the previous Wildstorm series, Stormwatch. And of course there were a couple of other, more line-wide Wildstorm reboots after that which quickly stalled. That's not including the aborted attempt to merge the Wildstorm characters into the New 52 DCU. All of the WS character-centric titles associated with that turned out to be epic fails that were quickly cancelled, and that fact is still part of most DC readers' awareness.

The Wild Storm is the basis of a new reboot of those same characters. Apart from whatever intrinsic merits the current series may have, the weight of history is putting it into a position of fighting a serious uphill battle for recognition and credibility with readers. Just trying to acknowledge the reality of the market the comic is launching into in 2017. It tends to have a big disadvantage in calling attention to itself in a marketplace overcrowded with revamps and relaunches of other more recognizable characters (or new imprints, like Dark Matter). Content-wise it might be better aligned with the Image Comics reader, but I don't know if it can get their attention either.

What I meant was that 1986 turned out to be a pivotal time in the history of the comic book industry (for a lot of reasons), and those moments just aren't duplicatable-to-order or even subject to predictability. The 2017 comic book marketplace is a very tough market to compete in.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 22 April, 2017, 06:02:02 am
This might just be hubris on Jim Lee's part, to insist on keeping putting those characters out there. Right now the smarter strategy might have been to let them lie dormant for a few more years, letting bad memories of recently-aborted reboots fade, and pick a time when there was more stability with DC's main universe to roll out a new reboot of the Wildstorm universe. Right now most of the market attention seems to be focused on DCU Rebirth.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 22 April, 2017, 06:18:24 am
According to Diamond,Wild Storm #2 sold around 34-35k.Which is well into average numbers,so obviously,your theory doesnt work.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 22 April, 2017, 09:17:03 am
According to Diamond,Wild Storm #2 sold around 34-35k.Which is well into average numbers,so obviously,your theory doesnt work.

No theory can account for the first few issue sales. It must be remembered that the numbers you see represent the number of copies purchased by retailers, not consumers. Diamond Comics might be able to sell early issues to retailers, but until actual retail sales are accounted by those retailers, it won't impact their preorders for the title. It remains to be seen whether or not readers who purchased the book with stick with it for the entire run, drop off, or increase by word-of-mouth. Will it create buzz? Additional variant covers tend to not reflect actual readership, so there's an additional fluctuation from apparent numbers reported by Diamond Comics, since few collectors will buy additional copies of variants over the course of the entire run of a longer limited series. Let's see where the sales are at by issue #5 or 6.

A good example of what I'm talking about might be Marvel's Miracleman, which was initially anticipated as a good seller by retailers and had multiple variant covers for early issues, but not only didn't sell at expected levels from the start, but experienced significant dropoff in actual retail sales after a few months.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 22 April, 2017, 09:26:47 am
Thanks for explaining what I already know.
Point is,its not doing as terrible as you claimed.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Old Tankie on 22 April, 2017, 10:14:02 am
I thought it was normal for sales to drop after the  first issue.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 22 April, 2017, 10:37:03 am
Thanks for explaining what I already know.
Point is,its not doing as terrible as you claimed.

Well, not for Diamond or DC, at this point, because all of the sales are based on what retailers anticipated they could sell to their customers. Most comic sales reflect a downward (not upward) trend in ordering patterns after the first 2 issues, because retailers first had to place their preorders for #2 before they received issue #1 to sell. Actual retailer ordering patterns could be affected as soon as the week after issue #1 goes on sale, but there's an additional period where orders could still be based on the faith or hope a retailer himself placed in the title, depending on how he felt himself after reading the first issue. If he still has plenty of copies of the first two issues, he may still order higher on issues #3 or 4 than what he sold on the first two issues, based on a hope that in-store displays/promotion and one-on-one recommendations might get customers to purchase some of his unsold copies of issues #1 and 2 (assuming the retailer liked it, and is giving his honest opinion to customers in recommending it). By issue #5 or 6, however, the retailer's orders should be getting very close to the number of copies he's actually selling, through economic necessity and based on his actual retail sales numbers. Few titles actually experience an upward trend in sales after the first few issues have gone on sale, and while DC may have made some money in the short term if a retailer overanticipated his actual customer demand, that state of affairs can't possibly last past the first 4 or 5 issues if a retailer wants to stay profitable. Now, it may be possible that retailers actually did accurately gauge customer demand for the title on those first couple of issues, but there's really no statistics available to tell us if that is or isn't the case. On average a title from a large publisher would be more likely to be over-ordered than under-ordered, where for smaller publishers it might be more like a 50/50 guess or tend towards under-orders on titles that flew under a retailer's radar that later generated positive buzz and customer demand.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 22 April, 2017, 11:00:48 am
I worked at a couple of comic shops, so I've seen how these things actually work in the stores. No sales numbers reported by Diamond Comics for first and second issues of a new title can possibly accurately reflect actual retail sales, because at the time those orders were placed, no retail customers could have actually read the first issue yet, so sales numbers on those issues reported by Diamond just reflect what the marketing convinced retailers to believe the potential sales might be.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 22 April, 2017, 11:08:25 am
I'm not trying to dissuade you from liking the book, or even making any judgments regarding the quality. Personally, I thought it was better than most DC comics being published right now, but that's neither here nor there in terms of how it might be selling for retailers.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 22 April, 2017, 12:00:38 pm
Im not sure whats your point,and Im not even sure you know whats your point;but okay,whatever.If you say it will fail,it will fail.I have neither the time nor energy for this discussion.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 22 April, 2017, 03:36:49 pm
The point is that Wildstorm, historically speaking, hasn't been a strong brand for DC. There are some exceptions to that, in terms of earning the parent company revenue. When DC bought Wildstorm, they didn't buy it for the characters. They really only wanted two things out of the deal: an exclusive lock on Jim Lee, and access to Alan Moore's then about-to-be-published comics (which became the America's Best Comics sub-imprint of Wildstorm, including Tom Strong, Promethea, and Top Ten). Things that were generated out of that deal, that became positive revenue streams for DC include:
-- The longest-running Wildstorm title: Kurt Busiek's ASTRO CITY (originally under the Homage sub-imprint, published since 2011 as part of Vertigo).
-- Warren Ellis' STORMWATCH and THE AUTHORITY (also later under Mark Millar).
-- Warren Ellis & John Cassaday's PLANETARY.
-- Ed Brubaker & Sean Phillips' SLEEPER.
-- and of course the aforementioned America's Best Comics sub-imprint.

It's easy to compile that short list because you just have to look at the things that have had a life in trade and hardcover reprints beyond their initial (sometimes brief) runs. Not too much else worthy of note, apart from Jim Lee himself, of course (BATMAN: HUSH, JUSTICE LEAGUE, etc.). I may have missed a few, but not much. The back catalog is not as strong as it used to be, though, especially compared to something like Vertigo.

In 2011, with the New 52 reboot, "Wildstorm" ceased to be a DC imprint/brand in and of itself. The Wildstorm universe characters were absorbed into the rebooted DCU, without much success. Most of the other Wildstorm characters/titles prior to that have had short, choppy runs, with several intervening attempts at revamps. For the most part, the characters haven't been embraced by the marketplace, or DC's usual customers, and there hasn't been much in the way of continuity, so marketplace recognition is still low, despite several attempts to change that.

And I don't know why you're taking this so personally.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: The Adventurer on 22 April, 2017, 05:22:44 pm
I'm not a fan of the Wildstorm universe, never having read any of its high profile titles (though I've read many of its creator owned titles, and ABC), and regularly making fun of its original WildCATS run for being super 90s.

But I am thoroughly enjoying The Wild Storm. It's got an interesting premise, snappy writing, and is building up its large cast gradually and naturally. I dig it.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 22 April, 2017, 05:30:03 pm
And I don't know why you're taking this so personally.

Im not taking it personally at all.If you dont like it,that's perfectly fine by me.But please spare us the 2 page lecture on how direct market works or the entire history of Wildstorm.I doubt anyone needs it,and you sound super-condescending.No offense.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 22 April, 2017, 05:30:42 pm
I assumed the ABC stuff was the only priority for DC, as recent years have revealed DC higher-ups have a bit of a boner for Moore's work that suggests they haven't read much of it beyond the two or three GNs they've been flogging to death.  The fact they couldn't make hay with Gen 13 when it is basically the X-Men (complete with videogames and 1990s heyday buoyed up by a cartoon show) and they have several ex-Marvel staffers - including one fan-favorite X-Men writer and several editors who shepherded the property through its sales high points - on the roster just reinforces the notion.
Title: DC comics
Post by: Arkwright99 on 22 April, 2017, 05:55:19 pm
I saw the first three issues of 'The Wild Storm' in Forbidden Planet this morning after dropping into the Future Shock exhibition at The Cartoon Museum; on the plus side it's got Warren Ellis and Jon Davis-Hunt, on the negative side it looks like it's going to run for 24 issues? I didn't even pick them up to flick through and bought the new Batwoman Rebirth series by Bennett/Tyrion & Steve Epting instead (even though I dropped the New 52 Batwoman series after DC screwed JH Williams III over the planned wedding of Kate Kane/Maggie Sawyer storyline). I've got no investment in the original Authority/Stormwatch history so that's the hill something like 'The Wild Storm' has to climb when I'm already buying 30-40 titles a month.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 22 April, 2017, 07:26:17 pm
And I don't know why you're taking this so personally.

Im not taking it personally at all.If you dont like it,that's perfectly fine by me.But please spare us the 2 page lecture on how direct market works or the entire history of Wildstorm.I doubt anyone needs it,and you sound super-condescending.No offense.

Whether The Wild Storm is good, or not, isn't what will ultimately determine its success or failure. It's whether enough customers even care whether it's good or not.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 22 April, 2017, 07:31:43 pm
I've got no investment in the original Authority/Stormwatch history so that's the hill something like 'The Wild Storm' has to climb when I'm already buying 30-40 titles a month.

Exactly. Before you decide whether it's good or bad, you have to ask yourself "Why do I care, anyway?"
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 22 April, 2017, 07:35:24 pm
The fact they couldn't make hay with Gen 13 when it is basically the X-Men (complete with videogames and 1990s heyday buoyed up by a cartoon show) and they have several ex-Marvel staffers - including one fan-favorite X-Men writer and several editors who shepherded the property through its sales high points - on the roster just reinforces the notion.

My basic argument against Gen13 would be along the lines of "Wasn't that already invented? Why do I need a new one?"
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: The Adventurer on 22 April, 2017, 07:41:23 pm
I've got no investment in the original Authority/Stormwatch history so that's the hill something like 'The Wild Storm' has to climb when I'm already buying 30-40 titles a month.

Well good news, you don't need any investment it what came before, as ive found this a very accessible stand alone series. A multi-pronged conspiracy thriller with superhumans and alien dangers. That just happens to take a few names and concepts from previous Wildstorm titles to give it a base to start from.

And 24 issues is a plus for me, as a set two year run is exactly the space a series like this needs to breath, but not overstay it's welcome.

I gotta wonder what 30-40 titles you're reading to make this one a hard sell.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 22 April, 2017, 08:08:32 pm
My basic argument against Gen13 would be along the lines of "Wasn't that already invented? Why do I need a new one?"

Because people may want it and it might make money - though obviously these are reasons based on the assumption that DC might be interested in making comics for someone other than their own editorial staff.  Which I gather is the case lately.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: The Adventurer on 22 April, 2017, 09:36:15 pm
I think a better argument is; 'Because there is more then one way to tell a story about a teenage Super-hero team'.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 12:54:15 am
Well, either way, it appears they couldn't come up with the right formula to lure enough consumers, making it into an ongoing franchise that's still being published. I'm sure competition from Marvel and timing in the marketplace were factors as well.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 01:05:51 am
I've got no investment in the original Authority/Stormwatch history so that's the hill something like 'The Wild Storm' has to climb when I'm already buying 30-40 titles a month.

Well good news, you don't need any investment it what came before, as ive found this a very accessible stand alone series. A multi-pronged conspiracy thriller with superhumans and alien dangers. That just happens to take a few names and concepts from previous Wildstorm titles to give it a base to start from.

And 24 issues is a plus for me, as a set two year run is exactly the space a series like this needs to breath, but not overstay it's welcome.

I gotta wonder what 30-40 titles you're reading to make this one a hard sell.

I doesn't surprise me that someone could find 30-40 titles that they're interested in spending their comic budget on. All of those things are predicated on the characters involved as well as the creators of the comics.

To someone who has no prior awareness of the Wildstorm universe characters, The Wild Storm may be no different that an entirely new series, and might well be approached without any predisposition. To someone with a pre-awareness of the history of published Wildstorm characters, there may be a standing apathy associated with those characters that needs to be overcome before giving the comic a trial read is even considered.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 01:11:02 am
I've got no investment in the original Authority/Stormwatch history so that's the hill something like 'The Wild Storm' has to climb when I'm already buying 30-40 titles a month.

Well good news, you don't need any investment it what came before, as ive found this a very accessible stand alone series. A multi-pronged conspiracy thriller with superhumans and alien dangers. That just happens to take a few names and concepts from previous Wildstorm titles to give it a base to start from.

And 24 issues is a plus for me, as a set two year run is exactly the space a series like this needs to breath, but not overstay it's welcome.

I gotta wonder what 30-40 titles you're reading to make this one a hard sell.

I doesn't surprise me that someone could find 30-40 titles that they're interested in spending their comic budget on. All of those things are predicated on the characters involved as well as the creators of the comics.

To someone who has no prior awareness of the Wildstorm universe characters, The Wild Storm may be viewed no differently than a completely new creation, and might well be approached without any predisposition. The key deciding factors are easily known to a potential consumer before deciding to try it - the writer & artist, the characters involved, and the fact that the series is the basis of a reboot of that universe. To someone with a pre-awareness of the published history of the Wildstorm characters, there may be a standing apathy associated with those characters that needs to be overcome before giving the comic a trial read is even considered.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Arkwright99 on 23 April, 2017, 02:05:08 am
I gotta wonder what 30-40 titles you're reading to make this one a hard sell.
Bear in mind 'buying' isn't the same as 'reading' so discounting the comics I buy just for my daughter my current - or future - pull list at the moment looks something like...

2000AD, Megazine, Mega Collection, Batwoman, Cave Carson Has A Cybernetic Eye, Doom Patrol, Harley Quinn, Shade the Changing Girl, Black Magick, The Discipline, The Divided States of Hysteria, Loose Ends, Monstress, The Old Guard, Paper Girls, The Fix, The Wicked + The Divine, All-New Wolverine, Champions, Doctor Strange, Doctor Strange and the Sorcerers Supreme, Gamora, Gwenpool, Invincible Iron Man, Mighty Thor, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, Ultimates2, Unstoppable Wasp, American Gods, Betty & Veronica, Britannia, Cerebus in Hell?, Cinema Purgatorio, Dead Inside, Mercury Heat, Predator vs Judge Dredd vs Aliens, Ragnarok, Red Sonja, Skybourne, World War Tank Girl and Vampirella.

Accepting that I don't have an unlimited budget to buy comics every month taking on a two year commitment on a largely unknown product (barring the calibre of the creative team - and the last Ellis title I bought into, Karnak, had an appalling schedule) is a big ask.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: The Adventurer on 23 April, 2017, 04:28:35 am
Fair enough with having a hard cap on your spending, and not having a good impression on the writer. I will only say this, if you're enjoying Doom Patrol/Shade the Changing Girl/Cave Carson you'll probably enjoy The Wild Storm for similar reasons. Honestly I'm not actually sure why it isn't under the Young Animal imprint to begin with, as it's right in that wheel house of reimagining DC properties with wild new ideas. If a slot opens up in your budget in 6 months, or a year. I'd recommend just taking a flip through what's come out by then.


And since you did take the trouble of typing up your pulls, I'll leave mine for fairness's and comparison's sake. Our tastes don't seem that far appart IMO.

2000AD, Megazine, The Wild Storm, Everafter, Doom Patrol, Astro City, Savage Dragon, Invincible, Paper Girls, Saga, East of West, Copperhead, Autumnlands. Monstress, Extremity, Dark Horse Presents, Usagi Yojimbo, The Visitor: How And Why He Stayed, Weekly Shonen Jump, APOSIMZ, Platinum End, and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

I just dropped Superwoman, because Phil Jimenez dropped off the book. And to be honest, I'd probably read more Marvel if they weren't so expensive compared to everything else.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 06:57:47 am
Fair enough with having a hard cap on your spending, and not having a good impression on the writer. I will only say this, if you're enjoying Doom Patrol/Shade the Changing Girl/Cave Carson you'll probably enjoy The Wild Storm for similar reasons. Honestly I'm not actually sure why it isn't under the Young Animal imprint to begin with, as it's right in that wheel house of reimagining DC properties with wild new ideas. If a slot opens up in your budget in 6 months, or a year. I'd recommend just taking a flip through what's come out by then.

That's an interesting take that I wouldn't have come up with. As I understand it, the Young Animal imprint is largely sort of a modern take on what Vertigo started out as, taking less popular DC universe properties and putting a whole new spin on them (in the sense of Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol for Vertigo), and was largely created as a playpen for Gerard Way to "have his Way" with some otherwise-fallow DC characters and concepts.

The Wild Storm, on the other hand, is a 2017 iteration of the same thing Warren Ellis was doing when he revamped the moribund superhero team Stormwatch (eventually evolving into The Authority), updating the same sensibility to the present. Stormwatch/The Authority was the forerunner of many other superhero modernized spins in its wake: The Ultimates, Wanted, even things like Ellis' later Marvel Universe Thunderbolts -- proactive, take-no-prisoners, widescreen-epic action, but Warren Ellis felt even those takes were no longer modern or relevant, and so The Wild Storm is a re-think of his older re-think of the superhero in the modern world concept to bring it up to 2017. With the addition of political angles, black ops, and conspiracies as something he sees as relevant to the modern audience. At least, as I understood it.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 23 April, 2017, 07:03:45 am
There is the problem positronic,your not talking to people;your talking at them.You just wrote a whole page of text to reiterate something everyone here probably knows and on top of that you already said it 5 times before in this very thread.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 07:05:58 am
There is the problem positronic,your not talking to people;your talking at them.You just wrote a whole page of text to reiterate something everyone here probably knows and on top of that you already said it 5 times before in this very thread.

Maybe I should ask what you want me to say, because I'm not clear on what it is.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 23 April, 2017, 07:09:28 am
Just spare me the wall-of-text history lectures and direct market explanations and I would be very grateful.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 07:13:30 am
Okay, I just summarize. I didn't think The Wild Storm was a bad comic. I actually liked it. I don't think it will succeed because I think most people are more interested in what's going on in other comics than in a reboot of the Wildstorm universe, which they haven't cared about in years, so whether it's good or not is irrelevant to most of them.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 23 April, 2017, 07:18:01 am
See,you can keep it short and precise.I disagree 100% and the sales are proving you wrong,but at least I can read your post in one go.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 07:32:12 am
Can you show me the number of readers who bought it? I think that's probably the major source of contention. By success I mean does it become the basis for a series of comics that is profitable for retailers because the copies they bought are being sold to customers. I don't think there are any statistics for that, just for what the retailers may have bought from Diamond. I don't think anyone can verify that they sold what they bought, or close to it.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 23 April, 2017, 07:48:20 am
Which ultimately means its profitable for the company/publisher,and like you yourself pointed out,that's the important thing for the direct market.As for the readers,at least a few on this board so far.  :)
And bear in mind Diamond doesn't even count the sales in the UK.
And this is really the last Im going to say on this subject.Anything else might motivate you for further discussion,and I really don't have time for it.

My current pull-list would be something like:Superman,Action Comics,Flash,Wild Storm,Hook Jaw,Forever War,TMNT,TMNT Universe,X-O Manowar,Amazing Spider-man(not sure if that will last),Spider-man/Deadpool(except the fillers),God Country,Invincible and ofc 2000ad and Meg.I might have forgotten something,so lets say between 15 and 20 titles.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Magnetica on 23 April, 2017, 08:12:00 am
Just out of interest, how do people find the time to read so many comics each month?

I ask as someone who only gets 2000AD and the Megazine plus a few Mega Collection issues, the odd Rebellion trade and the IDW Dredd stuff.

And the thing is, I generally only keep up to date on reading the Prog and the Meg. The Meg takes me all month. The Mega Collection, the trades and the IDW stuff is generally sitting there for ages before I get round to it. And I only occasionally read the floppy.

( I take the point that "buying" and "reading" aren't the same, but presumably you do eventually read the stuff that you buy for yourself?).

I guess you don't watch much TV?
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 23 April, 2017, 08:38:42 am
Best I can say,Im a fast reader?  :)
But I also have a backlog of things to read and an even bigger To-Read-List.
Tv as TV,not at all.I do follow a few stuff online and on DVD.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 09:04:45 am
Which ultimately means its profitable for the company/publisher,and like you yourself pointed out,that's the important thing for the direct market.

I'd be happy to let you have the last word, as this discussion seems to have put you out. It was never my intent to irk you, but I must take exception to your paraphrasing my comments about retailer preorders as anything like what's "the important thing for the direct market."

My definition of "the important thing for the direct market" is not what makes publishers happy, it's what keeps retailers profitable and in business by actually being able to resell the comics they preordered from Diamond. Staying in business in turn keeps their customers happy because those customers will continue to have a LCS from which they can buy their preferred comics  --even if what those customers choose to buy may not always agree with their retailers' blind guesses 2 months earlier of how many copies they could reasonably hope to sell of any new comic which neither they nor their customers had seen yet. I can't "prove" they guessed wrong on The Wild Storm #1 & 2, but neither can you "prove" they guessed right and were able to sell all the copies they initially ordered. The sales numbers that I think are "the important thing for the direct market" are the retail sales that a comic shop made to customers, and only the retailers know how many they sold compared to how many they ordered from Diamond. Once they actually have some idea of what that number is, only then can they begin adjusting their preorder numbers for later issues to reflect actual customer demand.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 09:27:58 am
Just out of interest, how do people find the time to read so many comics each month?

I guess you don't watch much TV?

It would cut into the time I have available (never enough) for reading comics. It comes down to a choice between different forms of entertainment. I just like comics better than TV, plus I'd rather spend money on comics than Netflix or a cable TV bill.

For the first few months after I gave up on TV I was a little anxious about shows I might have been missing, but soon stopped worrying about it and now find I don't really miss it at all. I have plenty enough to read to fill up all my spare time, plus the internet and maybe about 1000 DVDs if I feel like I need a break from reading once in a while. Plus I'll never have to experience the feeling of getting through six seasons of LOST and then seeing how the end turned out.  >:(
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Colin YNWA on 23 April, 2017, 09:37:04 am
Just out of interest, how do people find the time to read so many comics each month?

Easy -

Dedication's what you need.
You ignore all the rest
Cos comics they the best
Oh Oh dedications what you need.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 10:54:29 am
Comic book stores require dedicated readers. I'm not even sure if there's even a source for casual comic book reading any more. Maybe the library?
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: The Adventurer on 23 April, 2017, 03:30:33 pm
Just out of interest, how do people find the time to read so many comics each month?

I ask as someone who only gets 2000AD and the Megazine plus a few Mega Collection issues, the odd Rebellion trade and the IDW Dredd stuff.

And the thing is, I generally only keep up to date on reading the Prog and the Meg. The Meg takes me all month. The Mega Collection, the trades and the IDW stuff is generally sitting there for ages before I get round to it. And I only occasionally read the floppy.

( I take the point that "buying" and "reading" aren't the same, but presumably you do eventually read the stuff that you buy for yourself?).

I guess you don't watch much TV?

I watch an okay amount of TV (at least Netflix, Hulu, and YouTube. I don't get cable), but play a lot of video games in my free time. I think it helps that I personally read exclusively digitally. So I load up my tablet and read on the go. While it looks like a lot of titles, it only ends up being 3-4 a week, which is barely any. I can crush that in an hour or so.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: The Adventurer on 23 April, 2017, 03:32:19 pm
Comic book stores require dedicated readers. I'm not even sure if there's even a source for casual comic book reading any more. Maybe the library?

Libraries are pretty good about graphic novels these days. And there's always ComiXology on your tablet if you get bit by the comic bug randomly
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 23 April, 2017, 03:47:08 pm
My definition of "the important thing for the direct market" is not what makes publishers happy, it's what keeps retailers profitable and in business by actually being able to resell the comics they preordered from Diamond.

What would be good for the Direct Market was if it wasn't an illegal monopoly run by a company that is provably incompetent at the single job it does.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 04:23:08 pm
My definition of "the important thing for the direct market" is not what makes publishers happy, it's what keeps retailers profitable and in business by actually being able to resell the comics they preordered from Diamond.

What would be good for the Direct Market was if it wasn't an illegal monopoly run by a company that is provably incompetent at the single job it does.

You raise a salient point, sir. NO competition is not a good thing for any business. The King Of The Hill grows fat and lazy.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 04:29:58 pm
I actually laugh when I stop and think about the software application that is running it all. 20 years behind the times.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 23 April, 2017, 05:46:41 pm
There was even an offical inquary about the Diamonds monopoly,but every comic company and their brother lobbied for it to be stopped.Because if something happens to Diamond,the whole industry would suffer.Its a messed up industry if the monopoly holders are the good guys. ::)
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 23 April, 2017, 08:21:11 pm
jkl
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 15 May, 2017, 11:11:54 am
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/138216-dc-resets-the-clock-the-doomsday-clock.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/138216-dc-resets-the-clock-the-doomsday-clock.html)
Oh,hell no...
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: TordelBack on 15 May, 2017, 12:09:46 pm
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/138216-dc-resets-the-clock-the-doomsday-clock.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/138216-dc-resets-the-clock-the-doomsday-clock.html)
Oh,hell no...

You could not pay me to read this stuff.

Oh alright, you definitely could, but it'd have to be a decent amount.

Twenty euro a week at least. And I wouldn't think it too many.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: IndigoPrime on 15 May, 2017, 12:16:28 pm
"It's Watchmen colliding with the DCU. It's grim/gritty vs. all the elements Rebirth re-established. "

I don't even.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: TordelBack on 15 May, 2017, 12:29:35 pm
The sad thing is that I might enjoy this as a joke, like the Simpson's Watchmen Babies in V for Vacation, or a one-off What if Dr Manhattan was Really Mr Mxyzptlk?, or even a consciously incongruous genre-mash pastiche like Pride and Prejudice and Zombies.

But as an actual thing, UGH.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Link Prime on 15 May, 2017, 12:35:20 pm
I think we could cut and past half of the 'Before Watchmen' thread for Doomsday Countdown.

I'll give this a shot, mainly out of curiosity (the decent creative team doesn't hurt).
Based on recent sales of 'The Button' crossover, it will likely be a huge hit commercially.

Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: TordelBack on 15 May, 2017, 12:49:11 pm
I'll give this a shot, mainly out of curiosity (the decent creative team doesn't hurt).
Based on recent sales of 'The Button' crossover, it will likely be a huge hit commercially.

Enabler!
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: JamesC on 15 May, 2017, 12:56:05 pm
I'd agree there's a certain amount of curiosity but mainly along the lines of 'how awful can this possibly be?'

I think Johns is absolutely terrible.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 15 May, 2017, 01:22:59 pm
Before Watchmen was neither a critical or commercial success, so this is... I have literally no idea what motivates this beyond aggrieving a certain section of fandom in the hope their ire blows up into viral marketing, which is exactly the kind of publicity trolling that DC just spent the better part of five years trying to convince us they wouldn't do again.

Still, I can understand the concept that there are Geoff Johns fans, and the concept that not everyone likes Alan Moore's work, and that there are people who didn't like Watchmen, and people who like the New 52 versions of DC characters - what I struggle with is the concept that there is a overlap in all these things where fans are going "this sounds like it will be better than Watchmen."
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: CalHab on 15 May, 2017, 01:29:42 pm
Likewise, I find it hard to believe anyone has ever read an Alan Moore comic and thought "You know what, Geoff Johns could do this better".
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Link Prime on 15 May, 2017, 01:33:36 pm
Before Watchmen was neither a critical or commercial success

No it wasn't (personally I really enjoyed some of the mini-series, mainly when Darwyn Cooke was involved, but thought others were terrible).

The DC Universe Rebirth one-shot and (so far) 'The Button' have been a big success for DC though, so there is an audience for this stuff (whether they be of the mildly curious variety or not).
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: TordelBack on 15 May, 2017, 01:41:00 pm
I have a soft spot for the Silk Spectre series, but partly because it could have been about an entirely new character in any or none of the comics universes. Minutemen, while looking gorgeous, was just dull and a bit annoying. The rest, bleurggh.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 15 May, 2017, 02:57:51 pm
Sad thing is,it will sell.Button sold more then Secret Empire,so DC will continue to roll like that.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 15 May, 2017, 03:21:39 pm
You have to love the timing of this one. Coincidental with the Part 4-of-4 Flash issue missing its shipping date of last Wednesday. Well, I guess it works as a distraction from next Wednesday's issue, likely to forestall those complaints of "But this didn't really explain anything!" about the ending of The Button.

"Oh, so you say it's not really over yet?  Stay tuned for further developments, you say?"
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Colin YNWA on 15 May, 2017, 09:38:06 pm
I think we could cut and past half of the 'Before Watchmen' thread for Doomsday Countdown.


Yep so very very true and its started already.

DC will probably sell a shed load of comics off the back of this. Or not and move onto the next thing.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: The Adventurer on 15 May, 2017, 10:07:08 pm
If I do not get a fucking Legion of Super-Heroes title out of this shit, I'm going to be pissed.

Well, more so then I already am.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 16 May, 2017, 04:53:21 am
There were some teasers conserning LoSH;so it will happen.Sometimes in the future.
If anything can be said about post-Rebirth DC,its that they are playing the long game.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 17 May, 2017, 02:58:57 am
Did someone mention the Legion of Super-Heroes? Oh, that's happening.

(http://13thdimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/BM66_952_05_CMYK-580x880.jpg)
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: The Adventurer on 17 May, 2017, 03:52:28 am
Oh yeah, Batman 66/Legion by Mike Allred is going to be amazing.

Just a one-shot unfortunately.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 17 May, 2017, 05:33:29 am
July 26 is going to be a good day for Mike Allred fans, with both Batman '66 Meets the Legion of Super-Heroes and Doom Patrol #7.

(https://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/STL041009-600x923.jpg)
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 17 May, 2017, 03:19:30 pm
I joked that DC had better chop one of Lois Lane's legs off or something just to offset how fun those those books look, clearly forgetting what company we were talking about here.
SPOILER: don't buy any Superman comics this week.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 17 May, 2017, 06:15:52 pm
You had to give them ideas...
The cool part,Manchester Black is back.Im probably the only one who cares,thou.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 17 May, 2017, 06:44:56 pm
Flash #22 Yeah,its all just a setup for Doomsday Clock.Now Im thinking I will have to read it,just to see wtf is the deal here.
Wildstorm #4 Ben Santini is here.That was kinda expected.Henry Bendix is an alien.Or just a crazier version of Walter Bishop.Or both.
Who's next-TAO,Kaizen,Helspont?It would be interesting to see what Ellis does with them.
Now I expect somebody to rush in and provide a play-by-play of the first Authority arc.Any minute now...
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Apestrife on 21 May, 2017, 08:56:26 am
While I have a soft spot for four of the Before Watchmen books (Cook and Azzarello's), I somewhat wish it was done the way Morrison did in Multiversity, sticking to the Charlton comics characters. Would'v been more fun that way.

Regardless. I'm not to bothered with the smiley face story. Johns not my favorite writer. But I hope he has something fun in store, as a reason, for the inclusion.

That said. For the moment I'm enjoying DKIII The Master Race as well as The Wildstorm. Especially DKIII. Not that bothered by the slow release pace. Been using it as a good excuse to re read Year one, Last crusade, DKR, DKSA and each issue of DKMR :)

While DKIII will end next month, and The Wildstorm soon taking a break, Tom King's Mister Miracle is just around the corner. Very much looking forward to that one. Big Barda <3

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/05/12/dc-entertainment-announces-mister-miracle

(https://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/C9PVXyxW0AAQOa5.jpg)
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Greg M. on 21 May, 2017, 09:05:30 am
Tom King's Mister Miracle is just around the corner.

I must admit, I read a few issues of Tom King's critically-acclaimed Vision series for Marvel and it didn't grab me - nothing wrong with it, but I wasn't seeing why it was so lauded. That said, Mister Miracle is one of those select DC characters I have a fondness for - probably because of the Giffen / DeMatteis Justice League comics and the character's late 80s solo title - so I'll probably check this out.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Apestrife on 21 May, 2017, 09:29:41 am
Tom King's Mister Miracle is just around the corner.

I must admit, I read a few issues of Tom King's critically-acclaimed Vision series for Marvel and it didn't grab me - nothing wrong with it, but I wasn't seeing why it was so lauded. That said, Mister Miracle is one of those select DC characters I have a fondness for - probably because of the Giffen / DeMatteis Justice League comics and the character's late 80s solo title - so I'll probably check this out.

I foremost enjoy Kirby's Mr Miracle. Morrison's was fine, but a bit hard to know what was going on at times (which probably was Morrison's goal with the character's inclusion in 7 soldiers).

I'v yet to read King's Vision. Will check that one out. I really like his Sheriff of Babylon.

I'v not read much of his Batman, but it seems as if it dares to have much more fun than his Omega men (Which I still quite like). I have a feeling he has a really good Mr Miracle and Big Barda story in him :)
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Colin YNWA on 21 May, 2017, 09:37:29 am
Tom King's Mister Miracle is just around the corner.

I must admit, I read a few issues of Tom King's critically-acclaimed Vision series for Marvel and it didn't grab me - nothing wrong with it, but I wasn't seeing why it was so lauded. That said, Mister Miracle is one of those select DC characters I have a fondness for - probably because of the Giffen / DeMatteis Justice League comics and the character's late 80s solo title - so I'll probably check this out.

Yeah I'm a BIG fan of Kirby's DC work and while I'm yet to read The Vision (I will get to it) I've heard enough good things to mean I'll check this out. It'll be my first mainstream DC title for a couple of years, aside from trying a couple of the ReBirth titles very briefly... which chills me to the bones!
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 21 May, 2017, 10:28:26 am
Who's reading Mike Allred's Bug: The Adventures of Forager? It's a little love letter to Kirby's DC pantheon, along with whatever other DC universe obscura interests Mike. Dropped the Sandman, Brute and Glob right into the first issue. I love that it's a complete creative vision by Allred, too. He's taken one of the least-developed of Kirby's heroes and is exploring who he is, as Forager himself is on some kind of journey to find an identity for himself. Great stuff! Can't wait to see where he goes with it. Hints of Kirby's Atlas coming up.

I'm less than excited about Mister Miracle. Love the character, but the tone is just all wrong for me. Didn't care for Morrison's revamp of the New Gods characters either. Oh well. I think the last version of NG that did anything for me was Walt Simonson's, followed by John Byrne's.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Pop Culture Bandit on 25 May, 2017, 02:12:03 pm
Just dipped my toe into the DC waters with the first volume of Supergirl - "Reign of the Cyborg Supermen". Capitalising on the status quo seen in the TV show, this series makes a pretty good go of reinventing the character for a new generation. It's nicely standalone too, not requiring too much knowledge of the DC continuity.

Supergirl: Vol. 1 - Reign of the Cyborg Supermen:
http://popculturebandit.com/2017/05/24/supergirl-vol-1-reign-of-the-cyborg-supermen/ (http://popculturebandit.com/2017/05/24/supergirl-vol-1-reign-of-the-cyborg-supermen/)
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 26 May, 2017, 07:51:00 am
Seemingly inspired by the recent BUG and MR. MIRACLE miniseries, August seems to be "Jack Kirby Month" at DC Comics, celebrated by five weekly one-shot specials every week in August:

NEW GODS SPECIAL #1 by Shane Davis & Walt Simonson (w) and Shane Davis & various (a).
NEWSBOY LEGION & BOY COMMANDOS SPECIAL #1 by Howard Chaykin (w/a).
SANDMAN SPECIAL #1 by Dan Jurgens & Steve Orlando (w) and Jon Bogdanove & Rick Leonardi (a).
MANHUNTER SPECIAL #1 by Keith Giffen & various (w) and Nick Bradshaw & Klaus Janson (a).
DARKSEID SPECIAL #1 by Mark Evanier & Sam Humphries (w) and Skott Kolins & Steve Rude (a).
BLACK RACER & SHILO NORMAN SPECIAL #1 by Reginald Hudlin (w) and Denys Cowan & Bill Sienkiewicz (a).

Also solicited for a September 20 release is JACK KIRBY'S MISTER MIRACLE TP ($29.99 American) - Reprinting MISTER MIRACLE #1-18; and advance-solicited for December 6th release in the oversized ($150 American) JACK KIRBY'S FOURTH WORLD OMNIBUS HC - Reprinting SUPERMAN'S PAL JIMMY OLSEN #133-139 and 141-148, NEW GODS #1-11, FOREVER PEOPLE #1-11, DC GRAPHIC NOVEL #4: THE HUNGER DOGS and a story from NEW GODS #6 (1984). My only question would be why wasn't the complete MISTER MIRACLE collection released in an oversize HC omnibus format as well?

I forget now whether the dimensions of DC's oversize omnibus HC editions are the same as Marvel's, but I have several Jack Kirby Marvel Omnibus HC editions that would like a shelf companion from the DC side of the Kirby family.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 26 May, 2017, 08:05:22 am
Also noteworthy for LSH fans, they're at least continuing to reprint Legion stories in trade paperback.

LEGION BY DAN ABNETT & ANDY LANNING TP VOL 01 ($24.99 American; ships Sept. 20, 2017) collects LEGIONNAIRES #78-81, LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #122-125 and LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES SECRET FILES #2.

Whether we'll get a solicitation for a Volume 2 TP sequel to April's LEGIONNAIRES VOL 01 TP filling in the gap between issue #24 of Legionnaires and #78 (the start of Abnett & Lanning's run) is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Colin YNWA on 26 May, 2017, 08:12:02 am
The Kirby stuff is to mark the centenary of his birth I think. I have all the Fourth World omnibus (plural?) In there original 4 volume format. They are simply some of the best comics ever.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 26 May, 2017, 08:22:44 am
Omnibii is the plural.
#Yourwelcome
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 26 May, 2017, 02:40:15 pm
The Kirby stuff is to mark the centenary of his birth I think. I have all the Fourth World omnibus (plural?) In there original 4 volume format. They are simply some of the best comics ever.

While those earlier Fourth World hardcover collections might fit the dictionary definition of an omnibus, I was thinking of it more in terms of how comic book publishers like Marvel and DC define the word, as an oversized (and some would say, overpriced) format hardcover of some 500-1000 pages... more deluxe-y than your average hardcover reprint collection. If you've seen previously-released Marvel or DC hardcover omnibus editions, you know what I mean.

Personally, I passed on those earlier Kirby HC collections because I didn't like the conceptual interleaving of various issues from different series according to their chronological release dates. I certainly hope that they've abandoned that idea for this new omnibus collection, and that the stories will appear in order by series and issue number in this new collection.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: JamesC on 26 May, 2017, 02:55:44 pm
I have the Fourth World books (1,3 and 4 in hardcover but 2 in softcover as it had a short print run for some reason) and think that the print order works really well.
It's horses for courses but it seems that this is how it was originally intended to be read on a monthly basis.

Still no word on a re-print of the 2001 stuff. A real shame as my treasury edition is getting quite yellow and brittle.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: sheridan on 26 May, 2017, 03:41:12 pm
Omnibii is the plural.
#Yourwelcome

Sorry, despite the Latin root, it's omnibuses (and the proscribed version would be omnibi, not omnibii).

#yourwelcometoo
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 26 May, 2017, 04:10:02 pm
Still no word on a re-print of the 2001 stuff. A real shame as my treasury edition is getting quite yellow and brittle.

It's good stuff, but really tricky due to having to get permissions from both the Arthur C. Clarke estate (for the adaptation) and Warner. The fact that the latter now own copyright to the Kubrick film might make it even more likely that DC could reprint it before Marvel.

Marvel didn't even include reprints of the "Mister Machine" stories from the 2001: A Space Odyssey series in the MACHINE MAN trade collection, which even then would have required some lettering and title font alterations to match the later material.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 26 May, 2017, 04:14:22 pm
Omnibii is the plural.
#Yourwelcome

Sorry, despite the Latin root, it's omnibuses (and the proscribed version would be omnibi, not omnibii).

#yourwelcometoo

Yeh, it would be really confusing if you had to refer to more than one schoolbus as a bunch of schoolbi.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 26 May, 2017, 04:24:41 pm
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/omnibus (https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/omnibus)
Both are correct.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: positronic on 26 May, 2017, 04:48:45 pm
I have the Fourth World books (1,3 and 4 in hardcover but 2 in softcover as it had a short print run for some reason) and think that the print order works really well.
It's horses for courses but it seems that this is how it was originally intended to be read on a monthly basis.

It was read that way if one happened to buy all of the DC Kirby comics as they originally came out.

It doesn't make sense to me for a reprint collection though. I would prefer the reprints to focus on the linearity of the characters who were the core protagonists of the individual series. Thankfully they're doing that with at least Mister Miracle, in a separate TP collection. Jimmy Olsen had also been reprinted as a standalone series in two TP collections some years ago. IMO both New Gods and Forever People should be read the same way, first issue to last.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: sheridan on 26 May, 2017, 05:44:13 pm
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/omnibus (https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/omnibus)
Both are correct.
As I said
Quote
the proscribed version would be omnibi, not omnibii).
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 26 May, 2017, 05:52:01 pm
Okay,that was my typo,I admit. :-[
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 15 July, 2017, 07:55:51 pm
www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/07/13/exclusive-wildstorm-expands-with-michael-cray?sf97693088=1 (http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2017/07/13/exclusive-wildstorm-expands-with-michael-cray?sf97693088=1)
Interesting news.I hope we get Wildcats soon.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 15 July, 2017, 09:15:18 pm
DC reveals that one of its titles is selling better than expected (http://io9.gizmodo.com/dc-super-hero-girls-is-dcs-best-selling-new-series-1796936850), which seems like good news until you notice that all their other top-selling books are collections of decades-old material.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Colin YNWA on 15 July, 2017, 09:31:37 pm
DC reveals that one of its titles is selling better than expected (http://io9.gizmodo.com/dc-super-hero-girls-is-dcs-best-selling-new-series-1796936850), which seems like good news until you notice that all their other top-selling books are collections of decades-old material.

But doesn't that make it even better news? I mean if that is the case you'd think (naively) maybe that folks at DC will be looking keenly at what makes this sell and try to build that into other comics for the 6-12 year old market. Christ next thing you know they'll be making comics for a new generation not use fat sweaty chaps in our 40s.

Don't get me wrong we'll bitch and moan about it, but damn it we don't know what's good for us anyway!
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Professor Bear on 16 July, 2017, 12:05:26 am
I've been bitching for years that DC should make more accessible comics, because that's the kind of DC comic that made me a fan in the first place.  Super Hero Girls is only good if DC actually take notice of its success and try to replicate it.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Zarjazzer on 16 July, 2017, 01:16:07 pm
http://nerdist.com/white-knight-batman-joker-dc-comics/

this has me intrigued I admit fro I'm loving the art alone.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Eric Plumrose on 25 July, 2017, 07:39:56 pm
DC announces THARG: YEAR ONE (https://www.newsarama.com/35592-superman-year-one-by-frank-miller-john-romita-jr.html).
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 25 July, 2017, 07:46:32 pm
Granted,you got me to click on that...
Frank Miller...come on...
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Colin YNWA on 25 July, 2017, 08:45:14 pm
DC announces THARG: YEAR ONE (https://www.newsarama.com/35592-superman-year-one-by-frank-miller-john-romita-jr.html).

Ha! Fantastic. Now if only Tharg would really do that... although thinking on he has hasn't he?
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Eric Plumrose on 26 July, 2017, 11:23:02 pm
Granted,you got me to click on that...
Frank Miller...come on...

The Goddamn cover, man.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Eric Plumrose on 27 July, 2017, 05:15:24 am
The Goddamn cover, man.

. . . And apologies for my Goddamn grumpy attempt at humour.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Smith on 27 July, 2017, 05:26:15 am
The Goddamn cover, man.

. . . And apologies for my Goddamn grumpy attempt at humour.
I figured that part out.I just dont think Frank Miller is the right man for the job.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Apestrife on 27 July, 2017, 09:48:20 am
Regarding Superman: Year one. It has John Romita JR, and I think Miller wrote an interesting take on Superman in The Master Race. When reading it's ending, my first thought was how much I'd like to read more of Miller's Superman. And I'v enjoyed reading him as a punching bag throughout the DK universe.

DKMR even has a panel which can be read as an apology from Miller on how he wrote Superman, and the influence that may have had.

That said. I'm carefully optimistic on how the Superman year one book will turn out.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Link Prime on 27 July, 2017, 09:53:23 am
I'd be inclined to give 'Superman: Year One' a go.
Miller (and Azzarello) turned in a pretty decent story for DKIII.

Regarding the upcoming DC / Batman 'Metal' event, I've decided against it, despite the creative team involved.
I read both 'The Forge' and 'The Casting' one-shots, and was left unimpressed.
My affinity for (and knowledge of) DC continuity isn't gold standard, and I couldn't really care less about Hawkman or Duke.

Looks like I'll have some further gaps in the pull list once All Star Batman (finishes with issue 15) and Bane Conquest (finishes with issue 12) conclude.

I like the idea that DC will be producing stand-alone Batman graphic novels in the future (with larger '2000AD' size paper). Should be good for the occasional spandex fix.

Otherwise, my personal Twilight of the Superheroes continues.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Link Prime on 27 July, 2017, 09:55:49 am
When reading it's ending, my first thought was how much I'd like to read more of Miller's Superman.

Yes, agreed.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Apestrife on 27 July, 2017, 03:24:31 pm
Anyone else stoked for Tom King's Mr Miracle? Out 9th of August.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/05/exclusive-tom-king-mitch-gerads-miracle-man.html
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Colin YNWA on 27 July, 2017, 05:06:43 pm
I should be, I really should I used to always give anything Kirbyesque a go at least. Didn't get The Bug and haven't yet got to this... Though I still might, you hear such good things about The Visions.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Greg M. on 27 July, 2017, 05:16:35 pm
Anyone else stoked for Tom King's Mr Miracle? Out 9th of August.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/05/exclusive-tom-king-mitch-gerads-miracle-man.html

Interesting interview, cheers for that. I'm not sure if King's vision (pun not intended) for Mr. Miracle will necessarily chime with the way I see the character, but I certainly intend to give the comic a try.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Link Prime on 16 August, 2017, 11:16:30 am
Anyone else stoked for Tom King's Mr Miracle? Out 9th of August.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/05/exclusive-tom-king-mitch-gerads-miracle-man.html

Interesting interview, cheers for that. I'm not sure if King's vision (pun not intended) for Mr. Miracle will necessarily chime with the way I see the character, but I certainly intend to give the comic a try.

Regretfully I didn't bother with Mr. Miracle #1, but it seems I should have.
Haven't seen this much critical acclaim in a long long time. A Comixology purchase is always an option I suppose.
Any update from forumites who have read it?
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Greg M. on 16 August, 2017, 11:37:08 am
I forgot to buy it. If I'm honest, all the raving about it started to put me off - "Tom King's Mr. Miracle has redefined comics!"  If it is indeed a good book, it doesn't need saddled with that kind of hyperbole. I still intend to give it a go though.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Colin YNWA on 16 August, 2017, 11:55:11 am
Wow yeah starting to go for silly money. Mind figure if we wait for a bit things will calm down... they often do. Sometimes don't of course!

As for the critical acclaim it's so often ott. I always reflect on Saga which is a great but not as special as some would have you believe.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Link Prime on 16 August, 2017, 03:53:31 pm
As for the critical acclaim it's so often ott. I always reflect on Saga which is a great but not as special as some would have you believe.

I genuinely find that the best barometer is this forum*- will await some further musings from my fellow Squaxx.

*Regarding comics / movies / video games. For all other topics yer a bunch of yahoos.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: JamesC on 16 August, 2017, 05:08:09 pm
Has anybody read any of METAL yet?
I thought The Forge and The Casting were both good fun. I'm looking forward to seeing Hawkman again too.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Apestrife on 16 August, 2017, 06:18:02 pm
I really liked Mister Miracle #1. Gave me some good Kirby vibes, and without any kitsch. Awesome art. It's only one issue in, but I have a very good feeling about this book.
Title: Re: DC comics
Post by: Zarjazzer on 13 September, 2017, 09:32:16 pm
A visit to that Lahndahn tahn and I'm in Forbidden Planet. I got some DC stuff as i haven't read any for ages  Batman Detective Comic 957 and Dark Nights Metal 1 and Batman 29. (Also BPRD cos i always enjoy it despite it being- big  monster(s) that kills almost everyone then some one turns up who can blast it.)

DC were good but in BDC 957 Bats hardly appears it concerns a vigilante (quick phone Justice dept Judge Pal) called um,Spoiler.... The best was Batman 29 "The War of Jokes and Riddles 4" -where Bruce Wayne has dinner with all his enemies. This unusual premise worked very well and great art helped.

Metal 1...cost a bomb as I picked up foolishly the mucho expenso alt-cover copy (doh!), but stuck with it anyway when I realised my error. The beginning did not bode well a gladiatorial contest ending in the heroes (Justice League I think Bats, Supes, WW, Cyborg,Flash, Aqua and GL) becoming a *gasp*transformer?

Anyway things improved but Snyder does love to leap around the universe with none of those pesky establishing shots or CAPS explaining like alot of comic book writers do. this can be confusing to decrepit readers like myself.

anyway basically there;s a big bad on the way and his name is Pusscat! (no actually it's Barbatos)

Not terrible with lush Capullo art but is it worth 8.99? Not for this reader.