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Author Topic: DC comics  (Read 3364 times)

positronic

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #30 on: 22 April, 2017, 11:08:25 am »
I'm not trying to dissuade you from liking the book, or even making any judgments regarding the quality. Personally, I thought it was better than most DC comics being published right now, but that's neither here nor there in terms of how it might be selling for retailers.

Smith

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #31 on: 22 April, 2017, 12:00:38 pm »
Im not sure whats your point,and Im not even sure you know whats your point;but okay,whatever.If you say it will fail,it will fail.I have neither the time nor energy for this discussion.

positronic

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #32 on: 22 April, 2017, 03:36:49 pm »
The point is that Wildstorm, historically speaking, hasn't been a strong brand for DC. There are some exceptions to that, in terms of earning the parent company revenue. When DC bought Wildstorm, they didn't buy it for the characters. They really only wanted two things out of the deal: an exclusive lock on Jim Lee, and access to Alan Moore's then about-to-be-published comics (which became the America's Best Comics sub-imprint of Wildstorm, including Tom Strong, Promethea, and Top Ten). Things that were generated out of that deal, that became positive revenue streams for DC include:
-- The longest-running Wildstorm title: Kurt Busiek's ASTRO CITY (originally under the Homage sub-imprint, published since 2011 as part of Vertigo).
-- Warren Ellis' STORMWATCH and THE AUTHORITY (also later under Mark Millar).
-- Warren Ellis & John Cassaday's PLANETARY.
-- Ed Brubaker & Sean Phillips' SLEEPER.
-- and of course the aforementioned America's Best Comics sub-imprint.

It's easy to compile that short list because you just have to look at the things that have had a life in trade and hardcover reprints beyond their initial (sometimes brief) runs. Not too much else worthy of note, apart from Jim Lee himself, of course (BATMAN: HUSH, JUSTICE LEAGUE, etc.). I may have missed a few, but not much. The back catalog is not as strong as it used to be, though, especially compared to something like Vertigo.

In 2011, with the New 52 reboot, "Wildstorm" ceased to be a DC imprint/brand in and of itself. The Wildstorm universe characters were absorbed into the rebooted DCU, without much success. Most of the other Wildstorm characters/titles prior to that have had short, choppy runs, with several intervening attempts at revamps. For the most part, the characters haven't been embraced by the marketplace, or DC's usual customers, and there hasn't been much in the way of continuity, so marketplace recognition is still low, despite several attempts to change that.

And I don't know why you're taking this so personally.

The Adventurer

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #33 on: 22 April, 2017, 05:22:44 pm »
I'm not a fan of the Wildstorm universe, never having read any of its high profile titles (though I've read many of its creator owned titles, and ABC), and regularly making fun of its original WildCATS run for being super 90s.

But I am thoroughly enjoying The Wild Storm. It's got an interesting premise, snappy writing, and is building up its large cast gradually and naturally. I dig it.

Notable Comics dropping the Week of 01-02-13


Smith

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #34 on: 22 April, 2017, 05:30:03 pm »
And I don't know why you're taking this so personally.

Im not taking it personally at all.If you dont like it,that's perfectly fine by me.But please spare us the 2 page lecture on how direct market works or the entire history of Wildstorm.I doubt anyone needs it,and you sound super-condescending.No offense.

Professor Bear

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #35 on: 22 April, 2017, 05:30:42 pm »
I assumed the ABC stuff was the only priority for DC, as recent years have revealed DC higher-ups have a bit of a boner for Moore's work that suggests they haven't read much of it beyond the two or three GNs they've been flogging to death.  The fact they couldn't make hay with Gen 13 when it is basically the X-Men (complete with videogames and 1990s heyday buoyed up by a cartoon show) and they have several ex-Marvel staffers - including one fan-favorite X-Men writer and several editors who shepherded the property through its sales high points - on the roster just reinforces the notion.

Arkwright99

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DC comics
« Reply #36 on: 22 April, 2017, 05:55:19 pm »
I saw the first three issues of 'The Wild Storm' in Forbidden Planet this morning after dropping into the Future Shock exhibition at The Cartoon Museum; on the plus side it's got Warren Ellis and Jon Davis-Hunt, on the negative side it looks like it's going to run for 24 issues? I didn't even pick them up to flick through and bought the new Batwoman Rebirth series by Bennett/Tyrion & Steve Epting instead (even though I dropped the New 52 Batwoman series after DC screwed JH Williams III over the planned wedding of Kate Kane/Maggie Sawyer storyline). I've got no investment in the original Authority/Stormwatch history so that's the hill something like 'The Wild Storm' has to climb when I'm already buying 30-40 titles a month.
'Life isn’t divided into genres. It’s a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel … with a bit of pornography if you're lucky.' - Alan Moore

positronic

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #37 on: 22 April, 2017, 07:26:17 pm »
And I don't know why you're taking this so personally.

Im not taking it personally at all.If you dont like it,that's perfectly fine by me.But please spare us the 2 page lecture on how direct market works or the entire history of Wildstorm.I doubt anyone needs it,and you sound super-condescending.No offense.

Whether The Wild Storm is good, or not, isn't what will ultimately determine its success or failure. It's whether enough customers even care whether it's good or not.

positronic

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #38 on: 22 April, 2017, 07:31:43 pm »
I've got no investment in the original Authority/Stormwatch history so that's the hill something like 'The Wild Storm' has to climb when I'm already buying 30-40 titles a month.

Exactly. Before you decide whether it's good or bad, you have to ask yourself "Why do I care, anyway?"

positronic

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #39 on: 22 April, 2017, 07:35:24 pm »
The fact they couldn't make hay with Gen 13 when it is basically the X-Men (complete with videogames and 1990s heyday buoyed up by a cartoon show) and they have several ex-Marvel staffers - including one fan-favorite X-Men writer and several editors who shepherded the property through its sales high points - on the roster just reinforces the notion.

My basic argument against Gen13 would be along the lines of "Wasn't that already invented? Why do I need a new one?"

The Adventurer

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #40 on: 22 April, 2017, 07:41:23 pm »
I've got no investment in the original Authority/Stormwatch history so that's the hill something like 'The Wild Storm' has to climb when I'm already buying 30-40 titles a month.

Well good news, you don't need any investment it what came before, as ive found this a very accessible stand alone series. A multi-pronged conspiracy thriller with superhumans and alien dangers. That just happens to take a few names and concepts from previous Wildstorm titles to give it a base to start from.

And 24 issues is a plus for me, as a set two year run is exactly the space a series like this needs to breath, but not overstay it's welcome.

I gotta wonder what 30-40 titles you're reading to make this one a hard sell.

Notable Comics dropping the Week of 01-02-13


Professor Bear

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #41 on: 22 April, 2017, 08:08:32 pm »
My basic argument against Gen13 would be along the lines of "Wasn't that already invented? Why do I need a new one?"

Because people may want it and it might make money - though obviously these are reasons based on the assumption that DC might be interested in making comics for someone other than their own editorial staff.  Which I gather is the case lately.

The Adventurer

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #42 on: 22 April, 2017, 09:36:15 pm »
I think a better argument is; 'Because there is more then one way to tell a story about a teenage Super-hero team'.

Notable Comics dropping the Week of 01-02-13


positronic

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #43 on: 23 April, 2017, 12:54:15 am »
Well, either way, it appears they couldn't come up with the right formula to lure enough consumers, making it into an ongoing franchise that's still being published. I'm sure competition from Marvel and timing in the marketplace were factors as well.

positronic

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Re: DC comics
« Reply #44 on: 23 April, 2017, 01:05:51 am »
I've got no investment in the original Authority/Stormwatch history so that's the hill something like 'The Wild Storm' has to climb when I'm already buying 30-40 titles a month.

Well good news, you don't need any investment it what came before, as ive found this a very accessible stand alone series. A multi-pronged conspiracy thriller with superhumans and alien dangers. That just happens to take a few names and concepts from previous Wildstorm titles to give it a base to start from.

And 24 issues is a plus for me, as a set two year run is exactly the space a series like this needs to breath, but not overstay it's welcome.

I gotta wonder what 30-40 titles you're reading to make this one a hard sell.

I doesn't surprise me that someone could find 30-40 titles that they're interested in spending their comic budget on. All of those things are predicated on the characters involved as well as the creators of the comics.

To someone who has no prior awareness of the Wildstorm universe characters, The Wild Storm may be no different that an entirely new series, and might well be approached without any predisposition. To someone with a pre-awareness of the history of published Wildstorm characters, there may be a standing apathy associated with those characters that needs to be overcome before giving the comic a trial read is even considered.