The Political Thread

[Dandontdare]

the comments on the BBC news story are depressing in their lack of knowledge and understanding - common themes seem to be "the EU/RoI are being awkward/intransigent, we should just walk away and ignore them" and "why don't we just unite Ireland - problem solved"

[IndigoPrime]

My mother is a British citizen, and after over 50 years of living in Ireland is applying for Irish citizenship.  You are very welcome here in my book, IP

My family has a weird relationship with its Irishness. I remember interviewing Eoin Colfer years back, and he remarked that there were "loads of people with your name" down his way. But my gran was all "go over to Dublin with your accent and they'll kill yer", despite, in the event, our little getaway back in the day (late 1990s) being really lovely. (First day, we perhaps unwisely head into a random pub. I go to the bar and order five pints of Guinness and a pint of lager. The guy propping up the bar slowly turns to me and says: "I bet you hate that person.") My grandparents were British subjects (my granddad was army), and so I've no idea why they moved away. Their kids don't have Irish passports, despite obviously being eligible. So: odd.

I'd always wanted to get an Irish passport at uni, 20 years back, but it just never happened. Now, it feels like opportunism through birth. By the same token, it provides me – by luck – to get the same rights of free movement my wife and kid enjoy, on my own merits, so we will be able to stay together even if the UK government goes completely mental. Fortunately, the Irish government right now seems to be of the thinking "yay – more Irish people", which is something of a relief. That said, finding the right sodding documentation to get me on the birth register is not easy.

Which is all a babble to say: yay, Ireland. And also: fuck England. Or at least its Conservative MPs.

[TordelBack]

My mother is a British citizen, and after over 50 years of living in Ireland is applying for Irish citizenship.  You are very welcome here in my book, IP;

My English father-in-law's done the same, after close to 70 years living here. All those referendums* he couldn't vote in didn't bother him, but losing his right to free movement does. Conversely my English Sister-in-Law (living here for 15 years) got a UK passport for her wee daughter rather than getting an Irish one for herself. Crazy times.

And yes IP,  you are very welcome (most Irish folk our age had grandparents who were British subjects - there wasn't an alternative!), although I think you'll find we're not without our considerable downsides. No Greggs for a start.


*Resident British citizens can of course vote in our Local, General and European Elections.

[IndigoPrime]

I think you'll find we're not without our considerable downsides. No Greggs for a start.

Well, I'm gluten-free anyway, and so don't shop in Greggs any more.

I'm not sure whether Ireland would be a destination for us either at this stage, TBH. We honestly don't have a specific plan B at this stage. (Ireland has been on 'the list' at various points, along with Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, and Spain.) Right now, life is about trying to secure options (which in my case is a minor hassle, finding some paperwork, and paying 100 quid for an Irish passport; and for Mrs IP is us spending about ten grand on legal fees to try and get her to citizenship in time – fun times!)

[JayzusB.Christ]

Aye, no Gregg's, very few pies in pubs, no pickled eggs, and none of those nice little corner shops of the type 8 Ace buys his favourite tipple in.  Better Guinness here on the other hand, and apparently better Dairy Milks - my brother always stocks up when he comes here to visit.  Also, at long last, a beer selection to rival Britain's (though I suppose that's not much use if you're celiac).  At least come over for a visit, IP; me and Tordels will bring you out on the lash.

[maryanddavid]

Lots of English folk here out west as well, especially in Achill and Belmullet, pints waiting here too 

[IAMTHESYSTEM]

What will future Historians say of the Age of Globalisation? It lasted just 30 years or so, not even half the lifetime of the Soviet Union, the rich got richer, and then all hell followed on its collapse. Not too good if longevity is a sign of success globalisation was a failure but history is not an upward curve but a series of starts, stops, advances and declines. The world we knew is coming to a rather abrupt end replaced by a Nationalistic Unitlaterlism that I do not care for, but that seems to be the flow of events for the moment. I'm sure we'll endure whatever is coming, though some of that will be very unpleasant indeed.

[IndigoPrime]

Not necessarily. There's nothing to say this won't be a bump in an ongoing trend. It could be the last fart of the Boomers. Or perhaps it really is a shift due to people forgetting the past and being doomed to repeat it.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Is it tinfoil hattery to suggest that Putin has had a very big role in all this populist nationalism? It would seem that Russia, though one thing and another, has been going balls-out to influence the politics of the West, whether through internet propaganda, (alleged) donations to far-right politicians and the Brexit campaign, or spreading the fear of Islam (which I've heard is a major part of the troll-farming agenda).

Putin has a whole lot to gain from the fragmentation of the West. Or maybe I've become the type of conspiracy theorist that I've railed against for years.

[TordelBack]

Not this time!  In reality Putin's Russia would be crazy not to want to undermine the political and economic blocs surrounding it. An insane and paralysed US, a fragmenting EU, a weakening NATO...  if you were the immoral nationalist strongman in charge of a vast but quite-recently humbled nation/Empire this is all very good news.

[Professor Bear]

Wanting those things and engineering them are different kettles of fish, and based on some of his previous attempts at media manipulation - such as his ham-fisted handling of the denial of the downing of flight MH17 - Putin sure seems to have magically upped his game without ever changing Kremlin personnel or tactics.

Anyway, no you aren't being paranoid - all the ills of the last few years are definitely the work of one single enemy of the people, and nothing at all to do with disparate interest groups finding it much easier to organise and mobilise thanks to social media and a global paradigm shift in accessible information and communication.
People raging on Star Wars because it has a girl in it now?  Putin's doing.
She-Ra's new design looks a bit butch?  Also Putin.
Currently waiting to hear how Putin is responsible for Comicsgate, too.  Because you know that story's coming.

[TordelBack]

Heh, I'm not blaming every launch failure on the fiendish Dr. Nyet!  The divisions of our present world are real and more to do with the results of the blind hunger of the everyday homegrown tosser class and the media they control.  That, and giving all the monkeys digital machine guns.

It is however also a fairly safe bet that massaging of financial interests and new media manipulation are part of the toolkit of international skullduggery, and many of the issues we find ourselves mired in are ones that Russia can only find enticing.  So yeah, I'd happily point the finger at that wanker as a cheerful source of productive irritation in, albeit pre-existing, wounds.

[IndigoPrime]

It's not all down to him, but it'd be complacent to suggest none of it is. Relatively small amounts of money injected into the right things (say, a certain political donation, or a boat-load of targeted Facebook ads) can throw a referendum or an election. It's not about on-camera media manipulation – it's about what goes on behind it.

[Professor Bear]

I just don't think that a far right foreign head of state interfering in the internal politics of the US and UK to promote dissent and the rise of nationalism and neo-nazis is a plausible scenario, that's all.
But enough about Benjamin Netanyahu, what's all this about Putin?

[Tjm86]

Is it tinfoil hattery to suggest that Putin has had a very big role in all this populist nationalism?

This is arguably the greatest tragedy of political developments of the last few years and the  greatest threat to democracy, this complete breakdown in trust for sources of information.  I'm not sure that I would blame Trump but I think he is an example of someone who has 'weaponised' it very effectively to negate potential challenges.  The concept of 'fake news' has at one stroke neutered formerly trusted sources whilst at the same time elevating 'conspiracy theory' to the level of possibility.

So now not only do we now know what to trust but we also find ourselves suspecting that formerly insane ideas actually might be credible.