GRIM RUMOURS ABOUT NEW STAR TREK:DISCOVERY SERIES

[blackmocco]

Did I miss the reason she started quoting Alice In Wonderland while crawling about those Jeffries?  I mean, obviously I just assumed it was because we're still in the "Bryan Fuller had a hand in this bit" stage of the show, but just wondered if I'd missed something specific that rationalised it apart from the character's nostalgia.
Also I know it's only just started, but I am sick of this redemption arc stuff already.

I thought maybe she was reciting it to keep herself calm while being chased by the creature...? But yeah, it was pretty jarring.

As for her arc, I'm enjoying it. I'd expect she's going to be presented with another (legitimate this time, if Lorca's anything to go...) mutiny opportunity in her near future though...

[TordelBack]

I think it was more "if we're going to do Resident Evil let's just go the whole way".

[JOE SOAP]

They've dropped the misappropriated aping of Abrams stylings in the direction which results in showing-off the production design so much better - this really is the best Trek has ever looked which is not the impression the previous eps left me with. Jeremy Isaacs is burning up the screen with an intensity that feels like the Federation put Tommy Lee Jones in charge of his own ship and I'm liking the more amoral aspect to the mission, even if everyone acting like a prick was over-played.

I had a notion while watching that Michael quoting Lewis Carroll was a way for her to count/pace her movements through the shaft but the lack of a set-up made it seem odd even if the pay-off meant something personal, so it just comes across as a literal stating of some vague metaphor about her character's situation that got lost somewhere along the way or is waiting to be sublimated elsewhere.

I enjoyed Ep. 3 a lot more than the first 2 and despite the contrivances to get Michael on-board and on-side as some kind of tension builder, it hangs together fairly well. With some added fleshing-out of Burnham, this really could've been a debut episode without the need for the wasteful 2 hour backstory of the pilot.

[TordelBack]

...the wasteful 2 hour backstory of the pilot.

One man's 'wasteful' is another man's 'promise of kewl space battelz realised'.

On all other points, I agree.  I'm genuinely surprised how readily I dismiss/absorb all my former-Trekkie continuity niggles (e.g. the bit with Tilly and the book, in a Starfleet where paper books have always made up a significant proportion of the tonnage of any given starship; the holographic displays, their strange newness an actual plot point in DS9 100+ years later; the executive-stress-relief tribble), and instead am happy to just enjoy: in the same way that the superb casting in ST2009 carries me through its many terrible problems, I'm sustained here by the richness and sheer thoroughness of the design, the brisk pacing, the intense characters, the uncertainty over where this might all be going.  Probably down the space-head, but for now, it's good.

I fully accept that it's more BSG than TNG, but TNG's post-pilot episode was The Naked Now, it's 'third' episode was Code of Honour, so honestly, I'm okay with that.

[TordelBack]

Gah, double-post:  I'm sure all you film/creative types have a name for this, but the 'backstory' pilot puts me in mind of  an old gamesmaster's railroading trick, perhaps best exemplified by its employment in SW RPGs.  Here, the GM secretly conspires with one player in advance of the first session of a game, and gives them a pre-generated character to play instead of their own.  Early in the rebels' mission in the first gaming session, Darth Vader shows up and effortlessly slaughters the conspiring player's character.  The rest of the group barely escapes, the conspirator is reintroduced as a new character, and the campaign gets underway with a real sense of danger and threat. 

I think the pilot episode(s) achieve a similar effect: we got to know and like a new ship, crew and captain, and then abruptly lost them.  We're now never quite clear what the status quo is going to be, or how long it will last.  Plus three episodes in and the Shenzou survivors already have histories in which we are invested.

[blackmocco]

the executive-stress-relief tribble

I was thinking more along the lines of Klingon-detector Tribble....

[TordelBack]

the executive-stress-relief tribble

I was thinking more along the lines of Klingon-detector Tribble....

Smart!

[blackmocco]

They've dropped the misappropriated aping of Abrams stylings in the direction which results in showing-off the production design so much better - this really is the best Trek has ever looked which is not the impression the previous eps left me with. Jeremy Isaacs is burning up the screen with an intensity that feels like the Federation put Tommy Lee Jones in charge of his own ship and I'm liking the more amoral aspect to the mission, even if everyone acting like a prick was over-played.

I had a notion while watching that Michael quoting Lewis Carroll was a way for her to count/pace her movements through the shaft but the lack of a set-up made it seem odd even if the pay-off meant something personal, so it just comes across as a literal stating of some vague metaphor about her character's situation that got lost somewhere along the way or is waiting to be sublimated elsewhere.

I enjoyed Ep. 3 a lot more than the first 2 and despite the contrivances to get Michael on-board and on-side as some kind of tension builder, it hangs together fairly well. With some added fleshing-out of Burnham, this really could've been a debut episode without the need for the wasteful 2 hour backstory of the pilot.

Yeah, Isaacs has really given it a shot in the arm, the most telling scene being his reaction to Stamets' constant heckling in the engine room. I'm enjoying the prick aspect though. It merely underlines the notion that this is not a ship of soldiers - they're still explorers cast into very uncomfortable new roles during war and also, it's being made clear - Stamets being the mouthpiece, but [spoiler]Burnham being pulled from prison as a prime example - that most likely most of the crewmembers are not on Discovery willingly.[/spoiler] I'd say the crew seems more stressed out than just unpleasant. Early nudges of Commander Cain and the Pegasus turning up in BSG. (I don't think we'll get THAT dark, though. This is still Star Trek...)

Am I the only one a little confused by Saru's reaction to the prison shuttle warping away at the end?[spoiler] Is his death-flare reaction to Burnham staying aboard Discovery (something I felt he already knew when speaking to Burnham before she goes into Lorca's ready room at the end)? Or is it being suggested that prison shuttle is never going to reach its intended destination seeing as Discovery is supposed to be a top secret project and Starfleet probably doesn't want witnesses talking about the ship's existence?[/spoiler]

I read somewhere the first two episodes might have been added to the show's episode count somewhat last-minute (upping the episode count from 13 to 15). I'm with Tordelback, though - I'd rather have seen those events rather than just heard about them, but I wonder might the whole thing have been more effective had those episodes been shown in flashback and scattered throughout the season's episodes, slowly building up the backstory? Tough call. I really enjoyed them, personally. Any script wobbles were more than outweighed by the stuff I liked. The banter between Burnham and Saru, Captain Giorgiou herself (THERE's a show I want to see!), Burnham's spacewalk (a great throwback to Spock penetrating Vejur), the grandeur of these revisited Klingons, Burnham outwitting the computer in true Roddenberry fashion. I also came away from the pilot really liking Burnham's character, where I seem to be in the minority. She's brave, she's capable, she's a character who acts (even if some of the actions are open to question) and she straight away realizes and accepts the responsibilities of those actions. TNG would have made a two-parter of talking heads discussing what to do next.

And c'mon, man - how great are those money-shots of the Discovery when she shows up? It's a beautiful design.

[JOE SOAP]

I'm with Tordelback, though - I'd rather have seen those events rather than just heard about them, but I wonder might the whole thing have been more effective had those episodes been shown in flashback and scattered throughout the season's episodes, slowly building up the backstory? Tough call.

This was more what I was implying – start with the prison ship docking with Discovery then conflate those first 3 eps into a 2 hour pilot integrating the more vital incidents of the war and Michael's transgressions. I think it might be more impactful but as you suggest, the pilot may have been a late addition and the series did originally start with Isaacs etc.

[TordelBack]

The flashback route definitely could have worked - but isn't a bit old hat in a post-Lost/Arrow environment? The way they did go has, as I was clumsily arguing, the advantage of creating genuine uncertainty.  Finding out why Michael started a war and became a mutineer may not have been as immediately engaging as the surprise of seeing it happen- of watching the familiar bonhomie of our new Starfleet bridge crew and their maternal Captain disintegrate into betrayal and death. That at least was new.

[Professor Bear]

the pilot may have been a late addition and the series did originally start with Isaacs etc.

Back up the thread somewhere, there's talk about Isaacs being a pretty late addition to the cast, and the timing is close to the preview showings of the first episodes (presumably the 2-part pilot).  Elsewhere on the web and before he was added to the show, there was scuttlebutt that one of Fuller's story quirks was to keep the captain entirely off-camera.
Saru's death erections were also established in the pilot, so his getting perimortem head-boners when the shuttle flies off would have been baffling without some sort of exposition.

[The Legendary Shark]

I'm disappointed with this so far. It's just not Star Trek. Hopefully it'll improve - or I will on a re-watch - but at the moment it just feels wrong, like cold coffee.

[von Boom]

I'm disappointed with this so far. It's just not Star Trek. Hopefully it'll improve - or I will on a re-watch - but at the moment it just feels wrong, like cold coffee.

C'mon Sharky, you know you want to like it. Just think about the cool new terms we're going to get with this spore drive. Warp factor shitake, the portobello manoeuvre, shroomin' subspace...

[Krakajac]

Have enjoyed it so far (more so, the first two episodes).

What throws me is the whole 'spore travel' thing.  Far out ideas are part & parcel of Sci-Fi and Star Trek, but this doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all.  Can someone enlighten me as to the basic logic?  I know it was kind of explained to Michael - but it went over my head.

When Michael was put in the spore chamber - was she actually transported to those various locations - or was it more akin to a VR event, showing her the potential of the technology?

Not being a full-on Trekkie - has 'spore travel' been mentioned in other series?  And if not - then I'm assuming it won't develop much in ST:Discovery?

[The Legendary Shark]

I'm disappointed with this so far. It's just not Star Trek. Hopefully it'll improve - or I will on a re-watch - but at the moment it just feels wrong, like cold coffee.

C'mon Sharky, you know you want to like it. Just think about the cool new terms we're going to get with this spore drive. Warp factor shitake, the portobello manoeuvre, shroomin' subspace...

You're right, VB, I want to like it so much it almost aches. The 'shroom drive is part of it; it's just piffle and, unless this is all taking place in an alternate universe, is a complete and utter white elephant. The wonky, selection box Klingons are another put off - it's as if they're all made of clay and change their appearance every decade or so. The starship bridges are too different, owing more to JJA than GR, and corpses twisted up like old rags just don't sit well with me either.

On their own, each of these things are interesting enough in their own rights and I should be loving the mixture but I'm not. The characters are all good and the SFX are amazing but this just isn't Trek. The Orville is doing Star Trek better than Discovery is and that's both weird and disappointing.