The Political Thread

[The Legendary Shark]

Well, we've had American stooges in positions of foreign power for decades so I guess it's their turn...

[IndigoPrime]

I see Jeremy Corbyn may be coming round to the idea that making Labour a party of opposition, rather than protest, may be a successful strategy. Bit late, and a shame that he rebuffed the Greens and SNP when they suggested it to him last year. Anyway, hope the man shows at a bit of sense:

Although Thornberry's suggestion this morning is a total headdesk moment. Labour apparently wants to leave the customs union, and then create a new customs union that is essentially identical, at great expense, and for no reason that makes any sense. (Labour, I suppose, is under the misapprehension that the UK should be an 'equal partner' to the EU, like a lot of Tories keep banging on about.) It does feel like Labour's at least making baby steps in the right direction, but I wish they'd just get off the fucking fence. There's clearly a weird 'union' to be had in the Commons: almost all of Labour, the SNP/PC/GP/LD bloc, and probably 50 or so Tories. But the dance to get there is tedious and ridiculous. (Also: if Labour really is again pressing ahead with CU but not SM, someone – probably Corbyn – needs another slap.)

I post this only to show that Trump's argument seems to be slightly more nuanced than the MSM's simplistic "arm all the teachers" meme.

Except that's actually what Trump said initially, and now he's arguing he never said that, despite, you know, actually saying that. He's a liar. It really is that simple.

As for the US, the solution is simple: get rid of the fucking guns. That's it. And if that's too troubling for gun-happy culture, then at least make it harder to get the things in the first place. How many more kids need to die in schools because someone with a grudge had access to military grade weaponry designed to obliterate rather than 'merely' incapacitate? How many more stories must be read about a four year old who accidentally shot and killed a sibling or parent because a loaded gun was left lying around?

And on arming schools, where does it stop? Teachers? Janitors? Cleaners? What about the kids themselves? Should the over 16s be armed? Over 14s? Fuck, why not just give every kid able to walk a machine gun and let everything sort itself out. The very notion of arming teachers is madness. I'm seeing teachers all over the place saying they're done if this ever comes to pass. (Notably, many are also saying right now that cuts mean they're having to buy paper, markers, pencils, and so on. Even if they were pro-arms, they'd not feel terribly keen about having to fund that themselves.)

Beyond that, there are numerous practical considerations: what happens if the armed teacher is overpowered? What happens when they shoot someone in the crossfire? What happens when SWAT breach the school, and see someone with a weapon? (Hint: they will not spend a long time considering whether or not to take them out.) All arming teachers will do is increase deaths, not decrease them. It's the same stupid argument that happened during that cinema screening. "If only a good guy had a gun." Only that time, the argument was someone should have literally been shooting blind in the fucking dark.

Gah.

[Pyroxian]

It's the same stupid argument that happened during that cinema screening. "If only a good guy had a gun."

Well, the fact that an armed officer was at the Florida school and did nothing dampens that argument.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43164634

[Theblazeuk]

Today it is revealed that the armed 'resource officer' stayed outside the school for the duration of the shooting rather than go inside and respond.

Which I can't say I honestly blame him for not running in, even if it does undermine the entire rationale for his profession. And of course all these arguments about arming teachers as an effective response against completely non-rational actors (no one shoots a school for profit, unlike the majority of pre-meditated criminal behaviour).

[K2]

"We need guns to defend against tyranny" is kind of predicated on the idea that gun nutters would actually fight back against tyranny rather than embrace it - a lot of them seem quite happy with a Russian stooge in the White House.

How can I argue against such blunt logic?  Odder still, look up the connections with Alexander Torshin (good friend of Putin, Russian banker) contributing huge sums to the NRA (because everyone knows how much Soviets love the idea of Americans having guns) wherein the NRA then contributes huge funds to Trump.  Coincidence?

Like I said, the NRA has little to do with guns anymore.

K2

[IndigoPrime]

Well, the fact that an armed officer was at the Florida school and did nothing dampens that argument.

For gun nuts, that just means you need more people with guns.

[von Boom]

Today it is revealed that the armed 'resource officer' stayed outside the school for the duration of the shooting rather than go inside and respond.

This sounds like cowardice, but I certainly wouldn't want to risk running into a school with some madman shooting things and then make a mistake and accidentally shoot a child myself.

[Jim_Campbell]

This sounds like cowardice, but I certainly wouldn't want to risk running into a school with some madman shooting things and then make a mistake and accidentally shoot a child myself.

He probably shouldn't have taken the job...!

[The Legendary Shark]

Maybe he was on his break. Rules is rules...

[JayzusB.Christ]

As for the US, the solution is simple: get rid of the fucking guns. That's it. And if that's too troubling for gun-happy culture, then at least make it harder to get the things in the first place. How many more kids need to die in schools because someone with a grudge had access to military grade weaponry designed to obliterate rather than 'merely' incapacitate? How many more stories must be read about a four year old who accidentally shot and killed a sibling or parent because a loaded gun was left lying around?

This.  Solving a gun problem with more guns?  Bringing more guns into schools?  Feck off.

I don't know how the idea of arming and training teachers sounds to the average US citizen, but to me it sounds utterly bugfuck crazy.  I teach adults, and I'd sooner take my chances than become some kind of super-cowboy from Charlton Heston's wettest posthumous dreams.  Then again, my chances of any kind of classroom shooting are pretty low here, because getting a gun is a lot harder than walking into the local supermarket with some cash and the blessing of the local police station.

[Professor Bear]

If there were more guards with guns, one of them might have went into that school, that's just statistics.  Funny how you liberal snowflakes tell everyone they have to listen to science, but when it proves something you don't like, you're against it.  Typical liberal hypocrisy.

[Theblazeuk]

It occurs to me that I don't think I've seen a single person who has actually been shot at or had to shoot others advocate for the 'if everyone has a gun we'll all be safe'.

Also as a teacher pointed out on Twitter, the Republicans won't fund schools enough to pay for basic classroom supplies. They just removed their ability to claim tax deductions when they use their own money to buy supplies. But suddenly there's enough money to train and arm millions of teachers?

Sadly that wouldn't actually surprise me.

[JayzusB.Christ]

might of went

Ftfy

[Big_Dave]

the solution is simple: get rid of the fucking guns

usa has as many guns as peopel
(over 300 million)

[Modern Panther]

Arm them all, I say!  Every child, upon joining kindergarten shall be provided with a government sanctioned firearm, and taught to use it to defend themselves.  The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is forty dangerous first-graders. It says so right there in the constitution...

" the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

and since we've already established that life begins at conception, there's no way that "people" only refers to adults.  If you're old enough to pull a trigger, you're old enough to pretend you need it to conceal your fear.