Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion

[TordelBack]

There was criticism of the handling of the partition by Mountbatten et al. That hardly seems controversial, unless you're some sort of Niall Ferguson-type revisionist.

Indeed,  but the criticism was mainly a statement of simple fact - it was a mismanaged disaster - rather than getting into the attitudes behind it, or even the history of the Raj itself.  There can't be any argument about that,  surely?

I thought the things that (supposedly) enraged them were issues of identity and any moral, emotional or philosophical input into the strictly rational matters of policy, economics and the (cough) meritocracy. If "these people did this and then that happened" is now 'Social Justice Warrior' territory, what's left?

Obviously I'm aware that these are not their concerns at all,  and never were, but it's interesting to see the usual suspects attacking something for literally no other discernible reason than that it involves non-whites and women. Interesting too to see umbrage taken with a plot most famously employed by that pillar of western (and English) cultural superiority, Shakespeare.

[Professor Bear]

Well behind the curve as ever, I only just watched the Rosa episode.  Geez, that was cringey.
The racism felt comically broad, like it was literally the only thing some characters had in their lives, like that racist bus driver guy and before you say AHA HE WAS ALSO A KEEN FISHERMAN SO RACISM WAS NOT THE ONLY THING IN HIS LIFE he couldn't even do a fishing without being racist, and when he learned there wasn't going to be any racism on his bus route that evening he had to drop everything to go be racist on his bus, and then when he found out that his bus got duffed-up, his only consolation was knowing black people were going to be put out.
Did the original script have the English grandad character have to pretend to be the bus driver or something?  It seems like there was a lot of setup for just that eventuality.
I feel the characters they meet in the show each week could have more complete stories or even just have rounded personalities rather than archetypes, but Rosa in this was just a cypher rather than a person - she'd show up or someone would say her name and then that tune would play like she was Jesus or something.  Who kind of feels like a slow, dull version of the incredibly stupid Legends of Tomorrow so far.  Have you ever seen legends of Tomorrow?  "Stupid" barely covers it, and John Constantine is in it now.  They have an original TARDIS console in the middle of their control room and nobody says anything, not even Rory.

[Bad City Blue]

you are definitely in a minority with that opinion.

[Dandontdare]

I'm finding the current series dull, preachy and over-simplistic. Whittaker's and Walsh's skills are just about keeping it afloat, but the writing is very poor IMO. Where are the surprises, the grand concepts, the narrative twists, the doctor's ingenious plans, the multiverse-spanning cosmic stuff? The latest was better written, but it still essentially boiled down to the Doctor & Co arriving, having the plot explained to them, and then watching it happen. Ending these episodes with mawkish sentimental music instead of the theme tune feels manipulative rather than moving.

[IndigoPrime]

Weren't the "grand concepts, the narrative twists, the doctor's ingenious plans, the multiverse-spanning cosmic stuff" the things everyone got sick to death off during Moffat's run? Personally, I still hope the writing from Chibnall will improve, but I very much enjoyed the episodes he didn't write, and thought his were at least serviceable. Give it time, I suppose. The kids seem to be back into it, and although people might gripe about the Pting, remember RTD served up farting Slitheen and deadly... wheelie bins.

[JamesC]

Was the Pting the little gremlin? I thought he was great, even if the episode wasn't.

I thought Demons of the Punjab was decent enough. The strongest scenes were the emotional ones (Bradley Walsh ahead of the wedding) but the aliens seemed a bit shoe-horned in. It wasn't anywhere near as good as Rosa but I'm still enjoying the series overall.

[Jim_Campbell]

remember RTD served up farting Slitheen and deadly... wheelie bins.

Paving. Slab. Blow. Job.

[TordelBack]

remember RTD served up farting Slitheen and deadly... wheelie bins.

Paving. Slab. Blow. Job.

With Moaning Myrtle no less. And in Tennant's much-loved first season as well,  IIRC. We're so far away from that nadir that it's hardly the same show.

There's a lot to be said for these current more self-contained more grounded* episodes, but...  I know we're an even longer way now from the pre-Ecclestone days, but I still see a problem with trying to cover too much in single episode stories.

If you're trying to establish a new setting,  introduce new characters and offer them a role and a resolution, develop multiple companions, give them and the Doctor something memorable to do, have a good bit of running and general peril, AND create and dispatch an original alien threat to underpin it all ... It seems like a lot to do,  and inevitably some aspect is going to feel barely sketched out or tacked on. No other show on telly tries to do what NuWho tries, and I wonder if two-part stories would allow a little more room to write more substantial elements.

*Not a paving slab joke.

[Professor Bear]

They managed that balancing act over 5 seasons of Sliders - every episode was a winner.

you are definitely in a minority with that opinion.

Oh no this has never happened before.

[Dandontdare]

I can't fault their logic - they were losing younger viewers at an alarming rate, and decided to go back to a much simpler kids-TV format. Sound business decision, and I'm sure it's popular with families.

Maybe multi part stories would work better, or simply stop trying to do so much, just do the basic things well.

... the things everyone got sick to death off during Moffat's run?

Not me - personally, I loved all those complicated plots, but I'm getting the sort of enjoyment from this season I used to get from Sarah Jane Adventures - enjoyable, but very conscious that it's not aimed at me as an adult, whereas previous seasons had enough action, laughs and scares to keep the younger ones involved, with deeper layers of plot for the adults.

These are the best sort of "family" shows - jokes for the grown-ups that sail over the wee 'uns heads, but without them noticing or spoiling their enjoyment. I used to watch Dr Who and other movies and read comics where I had no clue about the subtleties of what was really going on, but I understood enough to get the gist through context, and I loved them, but would have run a mile from a "children's" movie.

[IndigoPrime]

"not aimed at me as an adult"

Perhaps, but the last one had two adults in this house with 'something in their eyes' afterwards. (Mini-IP's too young for Who.)

[Jim_Campbell]

Maybe multi part stories would work better

As I understand it, market research shows that 'kids' hate them. Much like adverts that you can't fast-forward through, the idea of the TV schedule as you and I might think of it is pretty much alien to people under a certain age.

[TordelBack]

That's what I figured, but it's a pity.  And TBH Dr Who is the only new broadcast TV we follow in our house. Other TV is random repeats of Simpsons, Horrible Histories and Nickelodeon dross, and the occasional wildlife doc.

[Dandontdare]

whilst I'm on a gripe, thank the Lord for catch up TV - apart from the debut, I've only remembered that it's on and I've missed it sometime late Sunday evening - every bloody week! I'm just not used to looking for it on a Sunday.

[von Boom]

The best episode of this series so far. Yaz and Ryan proved themselves to be pointless once more, while Bradley Walsh's manly tears was probably the most emotional scene I've seen on DW for some time. Nearly in the ending of An Adventure in Space and Time territory.

The space pallbearers were interesting to look at. It would make a good story to go back and see what they were like when they were actually assassins.

I hope they can at least keep it this interesting for the rest of the series.