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Suffering from Slaine Burnout.... Only one man can help me now....

Started by Van Dom, 09 September, 2009, 10:03:20 AM

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Van Dom

Somebody PM Thrylseeker! I need help with the Axe-kissing one.

As I've documented elsewhere I am currently indulging in a massive trawl through all progs historique, currently up to the mid 1000s. Unfortunately it seems that having read the first 1050 odd issues in about 7 months, I am now suffering from Thrill Power Overload - or Thrill Power Fatigue - as I seem to have completely lost the ability to reason with Slaine.

It hasnt helped that there has been constant Slaine in the prog for the past 100 or so progs with stories like Demon Killer/Queen of Witches, Name of the Sword/Lord of Misrule, Treasures of Britain and King of Hearts coming at me with nary a pause for breath. Its quite tiring, especially when all read in a relatively small space of time and especially when all the above stories seem to be the exact same script just in a different setting.

The net result is I am now on The Grail War and I honestly cant figure out what is going on. Even attempting to understand it is hurting my brain. I need an easy to understand explanation from the Mayor of Slaine.

Things I dont understand:
All of it.

I always thought the Cyth represented "God" and "religion", imposing order on humans so they could control them and feed off their fears etc etc. Then the Goddess was Mother Nature, representing anarchy and chaos and our base animal instinct which was being enslaved by religion and rules and civilisation etc. And Slaine was the warrior for that side of things, fighting against the system, order. In this tale though, there is now talk of another "God" - the Trinity - who cast out "Lucifer and his angels" from "heaven"...and Lucifer and these Angels are the Cyth. So the Cyth are the Devil? But the Goddess is someone else. And all these faerie folk that used to live in happiness ended up turning to the dark side because of humans becoming all religious and losing the magic from their lives?

Now Slaine is fighing WITH christianity AGAINST paganism?
Meanwhile Niamh's soul has been captured by someone called Clara and a hawkheaded man. Who are they? And how did they get her soul? It seemed like they went back in time to when Niamh was Marian and stole her from the woods when she was with Slaine -but that didnt happen in that story. And now shes appeared and said shes actually been reincarnated as Simon Le Bon and is the leader of the Crusaders fighting against the Goddess....

I dont know whats going on!!!

Thrylseeker - help me!!! (and keep it simple!)
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Colin YNWA

I'm not going to try to untangle the mess BUT having just read that lot myself over the last few weeks I can completely sympathise with what you're going through.

Have heart though as it would seem that dispite Tharg's (or was it those Vector 13 numpties who said it?) claims before the start of he last part of Treasures of Britain (I think it was) that Slaine would be in the next 50 Progs a break seems to be coming with Prog 1050 until about 1090 (thanks Barney). By this stage it seems like a much needed break!

Van Dom

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TordelBack

QuoteNow Slaine is fighing WITH christianity AGAINST paganism?

I can't comment on the stuff you're suffering through Van Dom, because I never had the stamina to do it, but....

One of the unique things about Sláine is that his fantasy pagan-warrior antics are cast against an incongruous science-fiction background.  This is particularly true of the time-travel stories.  While your analysis of chaos vs. order is pretty sound, there's something else going on as well - the war between the Ever Living Ones and the Cythrons, two groups of alien 'shepherds' attempting to manage the herd of humanity for their own ends.  The Guledig and his boys deliberately cause war and suffering funneling the 'negative energies' from these back to the dawn of time via Time Worms in an attempt to break out of their cosmic prison, Myrddin and his guys try foil these plans by helping humanity to a more enlightened path and thus frustrate the Old Ones.  The Ever Living Ones are at least nominally allied with Goddess, who represents the power of the Earth who is unwillingly playing host to these alien superbeings. 

The big game is alien versus alien, war versus peace, and Sláine's 'side' depends more on this than the religious climate of the time.  At heart he's 'the laughter in the woods' and the Lord of Beasts, which would seem to run contrary to Christianity, but in those times when Christianity manages to represents a source of light of the world, that's the side he's on.

So, with this mind, Sláine can frequently find himself of the side of the Angels - his very first 'time job' is defending the Christian Irish from the Pagan Vikings at Clontarf. 

I've never been comfortable with any of this, by the way, but it's woven deep in the story.

Mike Gloady

Don't worry Van Dom, the time travel stuff is a little weird.  I gave up when they did the William Wallace thing, utter bilge.  Slaine won't be readable again until Secret Commonwealth (although it will look TERRIBLE for that story).
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Dandontdare

I think I stopped paying attention to the ins and outs of Slaine continuity around the time Merlin popped up with Hat of many Penises and his (shudder) 'Leyser' pistols.

I still read back then it for the lush artwork by people like Glenn Fabry, and nowadays Clint Langley, but I find it best to approach Slaine as a vehicle for pretty fantasy pictures rather than a coherent story.

Mike Gloady

Hey, this thread's been active for a day, a few people have commented on it and it features Slaine as it's main topic - where on earth is ThryllSeeker?

Is he sick?  Stay healthy warped one!
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Van Dom

Typical isnt it? Just when you need a thesis-sized explanation of something Slaine related and the big guy goes on holidays!!!! Just my luck!!!!
Van Dom! El Chivo! Bhuna! Prof T Bear! And More! All in Vanguard Edition Three, available now. Check the blog or FB page for details!

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vzzbux

Don't worry I am sure TS is compiling pages worth of explanation for us to mull over and go literally insane.








V
Drokking since 1972

Peace is a lie, there's only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.

ThryllSeekyr

My reasons for not answering right away.....Apart from just now accidently wiping clear the first part of my post without saving it to NotePad. Written in the earlier hours of this morning before I dozed off and woke up again.more determined to find one of my foriegn written Slaine graphics novel. Preferably "The Grail War/The Secrect of the Holy Grail" Assuming they are both one big story cut together. Both illustrated by Steve Tappiin.Which I did. Explained further below....
My four year old computer is has been losing clmps of data. Some of it vital to the software I use.
.I 've also spent the last few days playing "Majesty" and it's Northern Expansion. A simple fantacy based resource managment game nearly  ten years old. Before 3d rendering became common place and as Judge Dredd on the beat at a high-rise shopping mall escorting custmers trapped inside with those mutant vampires and other undead, chasing down Down Docter Icarus in his Vampire infested Regen Labs., Clearing out a Death Cultist infested church, Breaking the morale of Punk Gansters in the lsums from the Charles Manshions block to Juno Plaza fighing off other Death Cultist and Regn Vampire enroute to where the H-wagon was able to land while escorting Judge Goodwin. while also gathering all the pistols, laser and machine rifles together, and then savving some paitents and a doctor or two from Judge Mortis and his undead hordes at Clooney Hospital, before embarrking on the Smokatorium to turn some sprinklers on Judge Fire and then arrivng at Ryske to find re-animated corpses.. I just gave up trying to improve my score from Street Judge and Cadet on the Smokatorium level. over and over again. As it seems easier then it tunred out to be. I maybe I shouldn't play in a room at night wher it's too dark to discern wether I am presssing the right action key while trying to access the spirinkler system..
As for suffering from Slaine burnout. I feel that way as well. Not from reading Slaine, though. I just can't get enough of the one that salmon leaps with axe in hand while wearing brightly coloured tarten breeches.Is it the underlying philosphy that can be understood on different levels and alot more as I have grown from a fifteen year old reading 2000AD to a guy in his late thirties?
Maybe it's the fantacy art visuals......
Quoting Van Dom.......
QuoteThe net result is I am now on The Grail War and I honestly cant figure out what is going on. Even attempting to understand it is hurting my brain. I need an easy to understand explanation from the Mayor of Slaine
.

I feel that way too. Particulally when I only have the story in parts. The version I have in English that is.As for hurting my brain. Well, soembody did ask about Judge Death personal philosphy  on theboard a week before. and then some got to talking about Cathars and remembering fining page devoted to this in one of the Slaine stories. I decided to consult the Wikipedia on this. Not the most reliable of sources, but it will do me just fine. It was there that I read on and on. Opening other links on other subjects until I was reading on what is Dejour, Desuetude and Defacto. As for understanding Slaine and the alot of the Slaine thet occured post HornGod is that I am as much a idiot on this subject as anybody else.The main problem with me is that during that time of Slaine all the way through the 1990's. I had stopped reading 2000AD and Slaine altogether..Thinkin "The Horned God" was the last of it. Besides that fact that in my country, 2000AD Magzine could only be found in second hand book stores and those comicbook stores that imported alot of their products from America. So Ididn't really get back into Slaine until I found "Warrior Beyond Time" ( Demon Killer, Queen of the Witches & Treasures of Britain bound together.) in comic book store several years ago when Slaine making a comeback through Clint Lanely's photoshopped art and the RPG care of Mongoose Publishiing a few months later.Since then I have obsesssed with collecting everything  on Slaine. Right up until now.
Anyway, it just so happns I found part of the sotry you are asking about through places that sell old comics and other second hand book stores.Apart from that I could never collect a amority of the 2000AD comics and Slaine inparticular. Though my collcection has grown in thelast few years through Ebay and to the point where I am sitting in room with piles of comcis around me.
I wouldn't be able to find the Grail War stories  I mentioned without turninghalf my room upside down. Though I have just dug out my small collection of Slaine graphic novels. Most of them duplcates, but written in different foreign languages. 
After extracting them from the bookshelves amidst the clutter, and boxes filled with other books...
I have "Name of the Sword, Lord of Misrule, King of Hearts"  written in Dutch.or German Each, each self contained in their own volume on hardback.
Books Two, Three, Five of "The Horned God" written in Dutch also on hardback. I asume they are from the same series and find it even more difficult that they have been stretched out so far as to be published ijn more than thre volumes as graphic novel.
All of these published by Arboris..If that name means anything to anybody please tell me so that I have it right that they are written in Dutch or German?.
Four volumes of "The Horned God" written in Italian on softback. Published by Feest. Volume three is published by Basteli and seems diffrent from the others. Possibly wirtten in a different language, ( Might be French.) but I'm unsure without givng it alot more study.
I also have
"Demon Killer", One and Two,
"Name of the Sword" Three,
"Lord of Misrule" Four,
"Treasures of Britain" Five and Six,
"King Of Hearts" Seven
and I glad to have found at last....
"The Grail War/Secret of the Grail" Eight. ( It's actulley hard to tell wether this last one is either "The Grail War" or "Secret of the Holy Grail" or both combine. As they seem to be one long story cut otgether")
All of these volumes listed numerically as I have like they do ffollow on from one after another. All in published by Feest as well and in softback also.
I had assumed they were all in German, but they could be in Italian/Spanish or even French as well.
My excuse for now wanting to learn more than one language.
That last story, now that you asked I will study in detail. if I can read the pictures and understand abit of the foriegn narrative and dialoge.
I flicked throught it just a moment ago now. The wording seems german.in thsi version.
I like the tapestry on the inner title pagee. Withth words Slaine and picture of ukko blended in at the bottom
The story is gonna take some time translating. Even from just following it panel for comicbook panel.It's going to take some time.
From what I know if the story Ukko also had reason to be there. So he could spy on Simon De Monfort ( Who ever he his in Slaine and /or real ife hisotry isf there is such a man.)
Being asked by his Dwarfish superior or companion  to spy on this fellow.who was supposedly so virtue, yet still violent that he had to be hiding something.and to Ukko's surprise he turns out that he had nothing to hide.
This turns out to be my favorite reasons for how Slaine actaulley might have met Ukko in the firsty place. He was probably sent to spy on him in the same fashion for another reason.
Though I doubt Pat Mills or Steven Saville would agree.

It also turns out that he was woman or possssed by woman to his own disgust.
From his dialoge.
"Den Korper Einer Frau"
I think "Korper" means "Body"
"Einer" mean "I" or "Me"
"Frau" mean "Woman"
If thats correct, then this version is written in German.
It starts with Slaine holding alody by a stream in in some woods under a moonlit sky. He calls her Marion..
Wether that is in the Sherwood forest from the "Lord of Misrule " Story where Maid Marion is some incarnation of Niamh.
Which seems straanger because the Slaine story preceding this one was actualley "King of Hearts"
Iinvolving Willaim Wallace.
It does look like Slaine and Marion arrive in what I beleive to be the Middle ages in France via confrontation with a Phoneix. Sometthing to do with the dark hair lady and evil looking man.dresssed up as a bird.
Who I though might havebeen Slaine's old nemesis rebron Elfric ( I hope that the right spelling.). He seems like changeling or vampire.. Perhaps he's just a sorcerer, though all magic users in Slaine stories have strong ties with the EL worlds.as some EL riders make a appaerance later on in this same story.
Their fanged and horned hores with webbed and clawed feet.
Wether they are connected, I'm not sure.
Thats all  the sence I can make of it so far.
Quoting Van Dom .......
QuoteI always thought the Cyth represented "God" and "religion", imposing order on humans so they could control them and feed off their fears etc etc. Then the Goddess was Mother Nature, representing anarchy and chaos and our base animal instinct which was being enslaved by religion and rules and civilisation etc. And Slaine was the warrior for that side of things, fighting against the system, order. In this tale though, there is now talk of another "God" - the Trinity - who cast out "Lucifer and his angels" from "heaven"...and Lucifer and these Angels are the Cyth. So the Cyth are the Devil? But the Goddess is someone else. And all these faerie folk that used to live in happiness ended up turning to the dark side because of humans becoming all religious and losing the magic from their lives?
If that interpretation of the Cyth is correct  one of the best I have heard. I like explained how they imposed order on hmans so that they can control and feed off of them.and how they were the angel cast ouf o heaven by god. If thats correct, then I wonder which Cythis Lucifer. It couldn't possibly be the great Guldig. Myirrdin hsi half brred son seems to fit that role better, though he's in chagre of the Ever living ones.
Your interpretation, your analogy seems to fit.. If you've read "Slaine: Time Killer' It says right at he start that the Cythrons lost a battle for mastery of the stars. and their survivors were exiled to a life-less, volcanic world on the edge of the galaxy called "Cythrawl" Which turns out to at the dawn of earth.
.That certtainly ties up a few loose ends.I had assumed they were alien with far superio techology imprisoned on earth when it was still a ball of molten rock. Forced to livein enviroment not suited to they been used to . They still managed to carve out a comfortable niche for themselves waiting for the prmitive life that evolved into human to catch up. Perghaps they were the ones that chose us to evolve.
The Shining Ones.
Thoughit's more likely that the ones that wons the battle. God, as you say chose us to evolve and chose Slaine ( While beng the Earth Mother.) as champion among humans to battle them for control of the earth as it says on the front cover of every "Quality Comic" editions of Slaine.
I guess thats the same thing really..Cyth are the demnoic fallen angels, aliens from beyond the stars. Imprisoned on our home world at much earlier time. Probably setting the standard for us in secret, secretly guiding us and at times torturing us as well. Secreting ly imprisoning us through our advancments in order, modern techology.. Using that to control us as welll. If you compare this with "StarGate" the motion picture.
It was never mentioned who conquered them and put them here. As you say god and his heavenly host of angels have done this themselves.
One of my own most recently thought up explanations for Cythrons were people fromk the future labled as demonic aliens by the primitive humans they encountered.
Thinking in terms of a crossover with Judge Dredd.
They might even be a rogue soceity of Judges lost in a time travelling accident or banished to the past for being criminal Judges. Weilding whatever they were alowed to take with them. Prabably laser pistols and rifles, HoverBoards, Militia Defence Weaponry, . Proably not their Law-givers, Lawmasters other thing aquired through their previous roles in life in Mega City One.
This might explain a slight similartuiy between their Capital city of Gulagg and how I have seen the Mega City 's depicted.
The Cyth gods, might be just very large weird looking robots.
Quoting Van Dom.......
QuoteNow Slaine is fighing WITH christianity AGAINST paganism?
Meanwhile Niamh's soul has been captured by someone called Clara and a hawkheaded man. Who are they? And how did they get her soul? It seemed like they went back in time to when Niamh was Marian and stole her from the woods when she was with Slaine -but that didnt happen in that story. And now shes appeared and said shes actually been reincarnated as Simon Le Bon and is the leader of the Crusaders fighting against the Goddess....
I guess thats a way of looking at Slaine from more univercal point of view.Who side would he be fighting if he was in more modern time and Pagaism had by that stage evoled or devoled into so0mething he could no longer be aprt of.
Once agin tuntil I have read this in english fully. It goes right over my head. YOu guess is prabbly better than mine. So you say that while they were in the woods at the start.Saline was with Marion, possibly another incarnation of Naimh. Yeah, I noticed that. Possibly sshe was Maid Marion and they were in Sherwood forest.  When Slaine waas Robin Goodfellow or something like that.
I just checked the same foriegn edition of the "Lord of Misrule" graphic novel and it appaers that he marries Naimh/Marion close to the end of it as manifestation of the Horned God.
So it does look like "The Grail War" picks up where ."lord of Misrule" left off. Despite "The Treasures of Britain" and "King Of Hearts"
Those stories are like a randomly dealed hand of cards.
I noticed the part where Simon De Monfort is disgusted that he has thebody of or was for some time a woman.
By the way, Simon Le Bon as you mention is the lead singer of Duran Duran.
Of course you might be comparing this man ot the other, but see no visual clues.
So you say that she was reincarnated as this Simon De Monfort.
Probably this is the only way Niamlh can travel with Slaine on his time traveeling adventures or as seems Slaine had to follow her and there was this Phoneix that seemd to be part of process of bringing them in to time in history..
It seems they arrived to together, and some how Ukko turns up as well as they seen togther in a tavern.
Now if she can only exist in other era in the past or future of already existing characters like Maid Marion.and Simon De Monfort already there.I'm not sure about Slaine, but didn't he turn into Robin Goodfellow in "Lord of Misrule"
I think her role in time might have been defined by the body she was put into if she was Simon De Monfort. Though I think that tends to happen the other way round.
She redefines his role. But seeing as as Christian Paladin, I guess he would be fighting the Pagans anyway or proably trying to convert them.
A idea that just occured to me now is that Naimh being Jelous of Slaine connection to the earth goddess and decides to enter the body of Simon De Monfort to hlep fight the Earth Godeess in that era.
I guess thats who the dark haired lady is in green, the one with the fellow dressed up as bird.
I'm not sure who side Slaine is on, but I do niotice him standing over the slaine body of Simon De Monfort  right at the end.
I really need more time with this one.
Quoting Tordelback.....
QuoteOne of the unique things about Sláine is that his fantasy pagan-warrior antics are cast against an incongruous science-fiction background. This is particularly true of the time-travel stories. While your analysis of chaos vs. order is pretty sound, there's something else going on as well - the war between the Ever Living Ones and the Cythrons, two groups of alien 'shepherds' attempting to manage the herd of humanity for their own ends. The Guledig and his boys deliberately cause war and suffering funneling the 'negative energies' from these back to the dawn of time via Time Worms in an attempt to break out of their cosmic prison, Myrddin and his guys try foil these plans by helping humanity to a more enlightened path and thus frustrate the Old Ones. The Ever Living Ones are at least nominally allied with Goddess, who represents the power of the Earth who is unwillingly playing host to these alien superbeings.
Thats a interesting dynamic.look at who the true powers, the big players  that control thebacvkgorund toSlaine world. You could almost just peel him away from their backdrop and have them as both separate stories.
Quoting Tordelback.....
QuoteThe big game is alien versus alien, war versus peace, and Sláine's 'side' depends more on this than the religious climate of the time. At heart he's 'the laughter in the woods' and the Lord of Beasts, which would seem to run contrary to Christianity, but in those times when Christianity manages to represents a source of light of the world, that's the side he's on.

So, with this mind, Sláine can frequently find himself of the side of the Angels - his very first 'time job' is defending the Christian Irish from the Pagan Vikings at Clontarf
The thing about Slaine is that he tends to fight what is larger and uglier than he is.anywhere, and at anytime.Except when he's warped and earth power is pissing out from the top of his head.
If recall the rules the old Dungeons and Dragons game. They had this thing called Alignments.
Those Cythrons might just LAWFUL EVIL.
While the Ever living Ones are LAWFUL GOOD
That lawful bit is open to debate because I just put it that way because it makes them almost diametrically opposed to the Cythrons while yet still having that connection of both working within the law.
Slaine might Chaotic Good most of the time, or just CHAOTIC NEUTRAL.
I find it hard to say he's good, because he has a wide streak of nastiness, but I guess thats just partof his chaotic nature. So maybe he is CHAOTIC GOOD. in that regard.
Then  he became King when he returned to his tribe. I guess that Would thenmake LAWFUL NEUTRAL or GOOD.
He was the king and in that respect LAWFUL.
He was the LAW or Lore;)
The Dungoen and Drgons Druids tend to be regardas TRUE NEUTRAL.
I guess that makes them good, buit creepy.
Though they aren't exactly the same as the Druids of Earth Goddess.
Quoting Dantondare.....
{quote]

Dark Jimbo

@jamesfeistdraws

ThryllSeekyr

THE REST OF MY POST.....

Quoting Dantondare.....

QuoteI think I stopped paying attention to the ins and outs of Slaine continuity around the time Merlin popped up with Hat of many Penises and his (shudder) 'Leyser' pistols.

I still read back then it for the lush artwork by people like Glenn Fabry, and nowadays Clint Langley, but I find it best to approach Slaine as a vehicle for pretty fantasy pictures rather than a coherent story.

Concerning Myirrdin's unique headgear.I love it. and the outfit that goes with it. I 'd be tempted to wear one of thee myself if I could find a place that sell them.
I have to admit that it's Slaine art work that got me inteterested.in Saline in firstplace. So, it's it's that and evrything sort of branchs out from there.
I guess I would be lying if I said I was a hundred percent on the Slaine philosophies.     

It's like saying thats cool, but I 'm not sure if that right.

Quoting Mike Gloady.

Quote
Hey, this thread's been active for a day, a few people have commented on it and it features Slaine as it's main topic - where on earth is ThryllSeeker?

Is he sick? Stay healthy warped one!
No problem, but I just alittle more slow. I have taken some time to look through the graphic novel and have translated some of the dialoge.
Quoting Van Dom.....
QuoteTypical isnt it? Just when you need a thesis-sized explanation of something Slaine related and the big guy goes on holidays!!!! Just my luck!!!!
Well, parts of me often feel like they have gone on holiday. Sorry, and sorry again if I can't really help you. with this one. and also for one of my trademarked.unfeasibly long posts.


   

Kerrin

Holy Flurking Schnitt!

That's a lot of Slainage TS.

TordelBack


Roger Godpleton

He's only trying to be what following how his dreams make you wanna be, man!