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Better Call Saul

Started by Smith, 26 April, 2017, 04:34:05 PM

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TordelBack

I quite strongly prefer BSC to BBC at this stage - it's almost unbearably tense stuff, with one splendid character after another permanently on the verge of screwing up and losing everything. Most impressive of all is Rhea Seehorn, giving one of the great understated performances of modern telly, and it's probably not healthy that I spend most of every episode imploring Kim to run away.

MacabreMagpie

Quote from: TordelBack on 19 April, 2020, 07:56:44 PM
I quite strongly prefer BSC to BBC at this stage - it's almost unbearably tense stuff, with one splendid character after another permanently on the verge of screwing up and losing everything. Most impressive of all is Rhea Seehorn, giving one of the great understated performances of modern telly, and it's probably not healthy that I spend most of every episode imploring Kim to run away.

I've often felt that BCS is better than most of BB without quite hitting it's heights yet, but that's starting to change. I feel like season 6 is going to be very high-stakes!

radiator

It's amazing, and this season has been one of if not the best so far.

If there's a problem with the show, it's that the portrayal of Jimmy simply doesn't quite square with my conception of him as the character we see in Breaking Bad - it's too sympathetic and nuanced. The Saul Goodman of Breaking Bad is a scuzzy lowlife - a rat through and through and could never get the time of day of a classy, smart woman like Kim, imo.

But I'm more than willing to overlook all of that in order to enjoy the show on its own merits.

Sinx

I've never watched a single episode of Breaking Bad, but I have massively enjoyed every season of Better Call Saul

The Enigmatic Dr X

I've seen more entertaining paint dry.

I watched the first four or five episodes. It's a snooze fest. It might "get better after season blah", but frankly life is too short to watch stuff in the hope it picks up.
Lock up your spoons!

Keef Monkey

I think if you don't like it in the beginning you're probably not going to so fair enough. In my opinion it's not one of those 'stick with it and it gets good' shows, it's been absolutely gripping throughout for me! I'm not sure I've ever seen a show put so much focus into character development and to taking its time developing relationships, it's really pretty special. I liked Breaking Bad, but I absolutely LOVE BCS!

TordelBack

Quote from: Keef Monkey on 21 April, 2020, 03:25:16 PMIn my opinion it's not one of those 'stick with it and it gets good' shows, it's been absolutely gripping throughout for me! I'm not sure I've ever seen a show put so much focus into character development and to taking its time developing relationships, it's really pretty special.

Yup.  The real joy of it for me is how every character has been compellingly developed - even the loathsome/pitiable Howard! - when the narrative focus shifts from Jimmy to Mike to Nacio to Chuck to Kim, or even a sidetrip to Gus, Daniel, Lalo, Werner or Hector, it's never disappointing - there's always something to learn, and something to enjoy.     

MacabreMagpie

Quote from: radiator on 21 April, 2020, 12:52:46 AM
It's amazing, and this season has been one of if not the best so far.

If there's a problem with the show, it's that the portrayal of Jimmy simply doesn't quite square with my conception of him as the character we see in Breaking Bad - it's too sympathetic and nuanced. The Saul Goodman of Breaking Bad is a scuzzy lowlife - a rat through and through and could never get the time of day of a classy, smart woman like Kim, imo.

But I'm more than willing to overlook all of that in order to enjoy the show on its own merits.

Thing is we didn't see much of Saul in his "off time" in BB, only when he's dealing with clients so he's always in work mode.

radiator

QuoteI watched the first four or five episodes. It's a snooze fest. It might "get better after season blah", but frankly life is too short to watch stuff in the hope it picks up.

I definitely understand where this criticism is coming from. It definitely gets off to a very slow start - we totally bounced off it first time round and only came back to give it a second chance around season 3. It also definitely has lulls from time to time, and lets be honest - we're talking about a show that has an entire, season-long arc about digging a hole...

On the other hand, yeah, you're definitely missing out. BCS is one of the most assured, and (weirdly for such a 'small' show) one of the most cinematic TV shows I've ever seen. The cinematography is off the charts - I constantly find myself marveling out loud at the camerawork, the composition and framing. Even 'nothing' shots like a character sitting in the front seat of a car have an artistry to them, and there are often minutes-long purely visual sequences that are mesmerizing. For me that alone makes it worth watching. It's also one of the best cast shows I've ever seen - every role, from the main cast down to bit part characters are just perfect.

Quote from: MacabreMagpie on 21 April, 2020, 04:06:24 PM
Quote from: radiator on 21 April, 2020, 12:52:46 AM
It's amazing, and this season has been one of if not the best so far.

If there's a problem with the show, it's that the portrayal of Jimmy simply doesn't quite square with my conception of him as the character we see in Breaking Bad - it's too sympathetic and nuanced. The Saul Goodman of Breaking Bad is a scuzzy lowlife - a rat through and through and could never get the time of day of a classy, smart woman like Kim, imo.

But I'm more than willing to overlook all of that in order to enjoy the show on its own merits.

Thing is we didn't see much of Saul in his "off time" in BB, only when he's dealing with clients so he's always in work mode.

I hear you, yeah. It's all very subjective, but my take on Saul was always that he was a dyed in the wool sleazeball. A gutter rat. I don't believe there are any hidden depths to his character in the same way I don't believe there are any hidden depths to Trump. Some people are simply born that way and never change. When he mentions his ex wife in Breaking Bad, I have a very specific image of her in my mind, and she is not Kim!

That's not to take anything away from Bob Odenkirk's performance or the character as written. It's - to my mind - kind of revisionist, but it is brilliant on its own terms and it is what it needs to be to make the show work.

Definitely Not Mister Pops

Quote from: radiator on 21 April, 2020, 06:26:35 PM
That's not to take anything away from Bob Odenkirk's performance or the character as written. It's - to my mind - kind of revisionist, but it is brilliant on its own terms and it is what it needs to be to make the show work.

I remember reading that Goodman was only meant to appear in a couple of episodes, and as such, wasn't initially fleshed out to the extent we've seen now. I think someone has already mentioned that Breaking Bad was originally conceived as a (dark) comedy. I don't think these shows are plotted out as meticulously as they are presented.
You may quote me on that.

radiator

Oh, no doubt. Saul was always a very cartoony figure in BB and exists more as a magical plot device than a rounded character as opposed to Mike, where there was always a hint of humanity that could be explored.

MacabreMagpie

Quote from: radiator on 21 April, 2020, 06:26:35 PM
QuoteI watched the first four or five episodes. It's a snooze fest. It might "get better after season blah", but frankly life is too short to watch stuff in the hope it picks up.

I definitely understand where this criticism is coming from. It definitely gets off to a very slow start - we totally bounced off it first time round and only came back to give it a second chance around season 3. It also definitely has lulls from time to time, and lets be honest - we're talking about a show that has an entire, season-long arc about digging a hole...

On the other hand, yeah, you're definitely missing out. BCS is one of the most assured, and (weirdly for such a 'small' show) one of the most cinematic TV shows I've ever seen. The cinematography is off the charts - I constantly find myself marveling out loud at the camerawork, the composition and framing. Even 'nothing' shots like a character sitting in the front seat of a car have an artistry to them, and there are often minutes-long purely visual sequences that are mesmerizing. For me that alone makes it worth watching. It's also one of the best cast shows I've ever seen - every role, from the main cast down to bit part characters are just perfect.

Quote from: MacabreMagpie on 21 April, 2020, 04:06:24 PM
Quote from: radiator on 21 April, 2020, 12:52:46 AM
It's amazing, and this season has been one of if not the best so far.

If there's a problem with the show, it's that the portrayal of Jimmy simply doesn't quite square with my conception of him as the character we see in Breaking Bad - it's too sympathetic and nuanced. The Saul Goodman of Breaking Bad is a scuzzy lowlife - a rat through and through and could never get the time of day of a classy, smart woman like Kim, imo.

But I'm more than willing to overlook all of that in order to enjoy the show on its own merits.

Thing is we didn't see much of Saul in his "off time" in BB, only when he's dealing with clients so he's always in work mode.

I hear you, yeah. It's all very subjective, but my take on Saul was always that he was a dyed in the wool sleazeball. A gutter rat. I don't believe there are any hidden depths to his character in the same way I don't believe there are any hidden depths to Trump. Some people are simply born that way and never change. When he mentions his ex wife in Breaking Bad, I have a very specific image of her in my mind, and she is not Kim!

That's not to take anything away from Bob Odenkirk's performance or the character as written. It's - to my mind - kind of revisionist, but it is brilliant on its own terms and it is what it needs to be to make the show work.

I'm not certain on this as I've only watched the ep once but wasn't it mentioned that Jimmy had been married once or twice before when him and Kim got wed?

TordelBack

Twice indeed. Can't remember that coming up before, Slippin' Jimmy prequel-prequel series, anyone?

Richard

Better Call Saul is about how he becomes the scumbag he is in Breaking Bad. He's not supposed to be a fully-fledged bastard yet.

radiator

#59
Quote from: Richard on 23 April, 2020, 12:52:08 AM
Better Call Saul is about how he becomes the scumbag he is in Breaking Bad. He's not supposed to be a fully-fledged bastard yet.

And as I say, my reading of the character as seen in BB is that he didn't 'become' Saul. It's just who he is. He's just a one-note scumbag who is utterly devoid of empathy and who would sell his own mother if he thought he could profit out of it. I never figured him for someone who had a tragic backstory, or who at one time moved in pretty illustrious circles. I just don't see it, so I have trouble 'seeing' Jimmy as the same character as Saul in my head canon.

It's totally subjective, and doesn't diminish my enjoyment of BCS, and I understand why they've had to flesh him out and make him more sympathetic to make the show work.. it's just a little wrinkle that I personally have to overlook.