The Political Thread

[Funt Solo]

True story: I went looking for that diagram on the web and found it on a Quora page where the related questions included "Were the Nazis on the left or right?"

Well, they were socialists, yup.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Or am I reading it wrong?

Ah don't worry about it, I sometimes forget to make it clear when I shitpost something, and I certainly didn't mean for anyone to take that ludicrous old cobblers seriously.
If I was, you may as well ask why the diagram doesn't include Judaism, a religion that practices genital mutilation on children, or why Catholicism and environmentalism are on opposite ends of the spectrum and does this mean that there are no Catholic environmentalists?  Or are the things on opposite sides supposed to be equivalent rather than mutually exclusive positions?  If they aren't meant to be mutually exclusive, doesn't this negate the entire concept of the horseshoe theory?  Also, why are terms like "classic feminism" or "postmodernism" on there when these are alt-right code for TERFism and "cultural Bolshevism" (an antisemitic conspiracy theory) respectively?  Why is Liberalism there when that's become a right wing position after being supplanted by neoliberalism?
And that's before you even get to the basic problem with centrism: adopting a neutral position when faced with oppression is to endorse it.
More like horseSHIT Theory, amiright?

True story: I went looking for that diagram on the web and found it on a Quora page where the related questions included "Were the Nazis on the left or right?"

Sorry, my bad.  I'm an eejit.  That'll larn me to react without taking a proper look

[sheridan]

delusional, xenophobic and greedy.

This, on the other hand, I don't feel needs any clarification!

Unfortunately I see or hear about the results of this most weeks.  One friend (with a European accent) woke up briefly on the ground next to a bus stop, then a few days later woke in a hospital bed - the only thing he could remember about the bus stop attack was the attacker saying the word 'Brexit'.  And when I say the only thing he could remember, for the first few days he didn't know his name.  He has managed to use his limbs again now and can walk, but this kind of verbal or physical assault on people I know started a day or two after the plebiscite and shows no signs of ceasing.

It's not nearly enough, though. As many others have said, the depressing thing about all this is that people really may have to see what life outside the EU is like before recognising and understanding the damage. But by then, it'll be too late to reverse it.

Unfortunately the ill-effects of Brexit are being cast as not being a direct result but of being the result of a conspiracy among remain voters to ruin the economy because of something-or-other (I find it difficult to follow the reasoning).  I actually do look forward to hearing arguments from pro-Brexit speakers, in the hope that they'll be anything more than wishy-washy 'return to Empire' and xenophobia on display, but I've not heard any yet.  There's something about the EU being corrupt, but as this all kicked off around the time we got the (UK) MP expenses scandal, I can't see the point of that argument.

[JayzusB.Christ]

One friend (with a European accent) woke up briefly on the ground next to a bus stop, then a few days later woke in a hospital bed - the only thing he could remember about the bus stop attack was the attacker saying the word 'Brexit'.  And when I say the only thing he could remember, for the first few days he didn't know his name.  He has managed to use his limbs again now and can walk, but this kind of verbal or physical assault on people I know started a day or two after the plebiscite and shows no signs of ceasing.

Fucking hell. 
Me, I was very saddened to hear that my uncle (once fun-loving and upbeat, now bitter and old before his time) voted leave.  When my Mam pressed him on it, he mumbled something about 'immigration' - which is pretty much non-existent in the small Northern town he has always lived in - forgetting that his niece and nephew (that would be my brother and sister) are immigrants themselves.

[sheridan]

Actually, instead of my clumsily worded and second-hand account, how about I just post his facebook post (with a few details removed).

I cannot sleep. I'm reflecting on the last months since I was beaten up by a Brexiteer because of my Dutch accent, and the long way I've come since then. Some of my friends may not have understood what I've been through. I will tell you a bit about my journey of recovery. I'm telling to explain my absent behaviour from the last period (I may be wrong about some details):

Days 1-2: I wake up in a bus stop, everything hurts. I feel a boot print on my face. There's blood everywhere. Next time I wake up: I'm in hospital. I black out again. I wake up in the white tunnel of a CT scanner. This day, my main task is seriously trying to get the answers to: Who am I? What's my name? What am I doing here? The doctors tell me I'm lucky as I could have died with such serious head injuries.

Day 3-4: OK, I remember who I am. But wtf happened? And what's that life-crippling headache doing in my brain? My hand doesn't work, my nose is skewed and continues bleeding, is that normal? I cannot walk any further than the end of my street, is that OK? Why do I have a limp? Why cannot I find some words; what's this thing called again, I know I knew it's name once, o yeah it is called a "hand". It's this hand that's painful and can't carry anything ; o you say it's broken from the fall?

Day 4-6: OMG! I remember everything that has happened! Wtf! I was beaten up by a Brexiteer! Because I'm Dutch! Because they cited Nigel Farage! I need to share this with my friends! I need their support! People need to hear about this! I realise how lucky I am to be alive and that I have just escaped death.

Day 6-9: OMG! My Facebook post has been shared 20,000 times, I have received 2,000 responses including 1,000 hate messages and posts, and several anonymous phone calls of people threatening to kill me because I shared my post! There are more than 100 people telling me that my assailant should have succeeded in killing me. My mental health is doing surprisingly well, thank you for asking; I'm actually surprising myself, how well my psychological health is. And all of this because I made the mistake of being Dutch and living in London!

Day 9-12: Delete delete delete my Facebook posts! Call the police! Call the embassy! Get protection! But the police don't want to do anything, it seems they'd prefer me to die in an assault. And I literally still cannot leave my house because I'm too ill: daylight and noise kill my head. But having a Brexiteer neighbour who has assaulted me before because of my accent does not make me feel safe at home either - I'm safe nowhere. I try to walk a bit outside, as being on my own, lying in a bed in a dark room, doesn't help my mood either. I literally start walking until the end of one street - that's the main activity of the day -, the day after I walk two streets etc. But I get exhausted and almost faint after just a couple of hundreds of meters. So frustrating! And all of this, just because I'm Dutch and living in the UK.

Day 12-15: There's not one part of the day that I'm not seeing a medical specialist. The neurologist, the nose expert, the hand expert, the radiologist, another radiologist... They tell me I'll be fine... but they cannot tell me when, because they see I'm not doing well now. I collapse several times and I have to visit the A&E several times again. I know which A&E in London has the shortest waiting time and I know how to get helped quickly (these are crucial survival skills in London!). I am getting bored; I feel I've seen all interesting series on Netflix (I've binge watched house of cards, but I cannot remember anything of it - is that due to my brain trauma or due to how bad the series are?). I try to avoid newspapers and the news: bojo's election makes me fear for my life even more! I know I should apply for settled status to secure my future in the UK but just the thought of it triggers headaches, literally.

Day 15-xxxx: Each day I'm walking one street further. I'm trying to read a bit, to train my mind, but my head starts exploding after a while. I can type Facebook posts, but after that, the pain in my hand is killing me. I literally need to teach myself to use a pen and a pencil again. I need to learn to walk without a weird limp. One word at a time, one step at a time.

Day Xxx-yyyy. The specialists tell I should try out more activities. OK, I'll try! I see some friends, I try to work a day, I meet up with friends - at the start, just for an hour...but after a couple of hours my head explodes and I feel exhausted. How much can I do? This is OK... no, but that's too much! It's difficult to find my balance. Will I ever be better again?

Day after conference- I am well! I can do my work, answer emails, meet XXXX, eat, and... and? Collapse on the street! And later collapse again in hospital where people have brought me. The specialists see some weird blood values but for the rest I'm fine. I go home, and for six days in a row I sleep 16 hours a day. The neurologist told me I should use a specific medication! Bless the Lord! This relieves me from my headaches that I've been suffering from, from day 1 onwards. But I'm so exhausted that I need to build up my physical condition again, one street at a time :-( I'm starting to read more, to use my brain - finally my brain can sustain reading for a bit. I have had to relearn to concentrate - I didn't know that concentration and attention is something you need to learn again!

Jump to now - I can do most things again. I have built up my physical condition and my concentration and attention skills. I've started working again - all goes well, I feel well. And now - holiday time (because I need to use my holiday hours before the end of the academic year). I have had to cancel my holiday - I still don't know what to do with my time. Just being healthy already feels as a holiday to me. I am well.

Being alive and being healthy are priviliges that we are usually not aware of. But they are unique and critical moments in our life.

In dark times, you learn who your friends and who your enemies are. I've met so many friends. Thanks for all the cards, the donations to charities (I still need to cry about that amazing gift!), and the hugs! You have made me continue. Thanks.

Apparently people on both sides are hostile.  Though with events like this, the fact that almost every friend I have who lives in the UK and has a foreign accent and/or 'funny tinge' (copyright Angela Smith, MP) and the death of Jo Cox, I'm wondering why all the physical attacks on Brexiters aren't being reported (or maybe they're just not happening?)

[Professor Bear]

Both sides are as bad as each other, though - I mean, just look at all those left wing spree killers there've been.

[IndigoPrime]

Reading sheridan's account is awful. It makes me glad that Mrs G 'passes' for English – something that she's increasingly guilty about (although certainly won't be if her insanely expensive citizenship application doesn't go through). That someone can be beaten almost to death for having a different accent is beyond the pale. If you're in London, people in "Europe" are closer than those in the other end of your own bloody country.

[Funt Solo]

Both sides are as bad as each other, though - I mean, just look at all those left wing spree killers there've been.

Like the Nazis.

[Tjm86]

Unfortunately the ill-effects of Brexit are being cast as not being a direct result but of being the result of a conspiracy among remain voters to ruin the economy because of something-or-other (I find it difficult to follow the reasoning). 

This is where I have a major issue with the complaints about Project Fear.  Leaving aside the fact that Sterling has tanked, the economy slowed to a crawl, inward investment dried up, consumer confidence doing a fantastic impersonation of a cold testicle and the Great British High Street signing up for The Specials' reunion event ("This town ...") before we have even left, the whole debate was around the economic impact of Brexit.  The last two years have shown how myopic that view was.

We have literally had politicians murdered, others threatened with physical or sexual violence (both even), hate crime rising, the credibility of the judiciary attacked, democratic institutions undermined and the press giving up all pretence of impartiality and accuracy.

The thought that the narrative will now turn to 'Remoaners' sabotaging the UK economy to prove their prediction right is terrifyingly believable.  It is incredibly difficult to see now how we are going to get out of this mess, particularly with the complete muppets that are 'in charge'.

[Hawkmumbler]

Both sides are as bad as each other, though - I mean, just look at all those left wing spree killers there've been.

Like the Nazis.

'Tips fedora, pretends to drink from glass of Aldi Whisky'

So white genocide is a thing thats happening right now, and did you know, my fellow incels-

'Sheaths flee market katana'

-that Hitler was in fact a socialist, m'lady?

[JayzusB.Christ]

Both sides are as bad as each other, though - I mean, just look at all those left wing spree killers there've been.

You won't be so glib when the anarchist bombers of 1919 come after you.

[McGurk76]

True story: I went looking for that diagram on the web and found it on a Quora page where the related questions included "Were the Nazis on the left or right?"

Well, they were socialists, yup.

This is, of course, not true.
A few clues:
They were very into nationalism
They were very into militarism
They liked invading countries
They didn't really ever do anything socialist ever
They liked shooting people and persecuting minority groups
They er...hated socialists. And socialists hated them.
Does this sound like Tony Benn to you? Or Jeremy Corbyn? Or Attlee?
Hitler retained the name "National Socialist' in the hope of attracting working class support. His ruse clearly fools some people even today!

[Dark Jimbo]

The massive picture of Hoagy should have been your first clue that Funt was not entirely serious...

[Professor Bear]

They don't say these things because they believe them, they say them to get you to spend time and energy debunking them because they know they can't win a straight debate and can only hope to occupy your time in the hope of appearing to be engaging with you, and/or to frustrate you into quitting.
There was one member of the forum who would constantly goad other members with right-wing statements that were easily proved to be false with only the most cursory of checks, but his statements were maybe one or two sentences, while the rebuttals, by necessity, were several paragraphs long, and often had to go over the same ground as previous rebuttals because he would make the same points again and again and it was clear he wasn't even reading the responses people had composed.  That's why the only sensible response to "they had socialist in the name" is "what do you think buffalo wings are?"

[Funt Solo]

"Like, sparing no expense, I have erected signs that will warn people against touching these unbelievably menacing oranges, man."



But, like Waldo, I did not consider the illiterate...