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(Atten: Rebellion) 2000AD is the new Marvel

Started by Tarantino, 29 December, 2003, 09:53:30 PM

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Tarantino

Hi Guys

I have been promising to write something along these lines for a long time now and intended to entitle it 2000ADs collectability but things change, especially my mind.

I think we are missing out on some of the mighty progs potential and this is something that has not been addressed or taken advantage of by the guys at Rebellion.

I?m 38 now and so can remember back to when comic collecting was just taking off in the UK. There was only the Forbidden Planet, which was based on Denmark Street, in the West End of London and soon after followed Dark They Were and Golden Eyed. Comic Conventions also started to become popular but they were only about 3 or 4 times a year.

I touched on what I believe killed off or seriously damaged comic collecting in the nineties, in a previous thread and so will not go too deeply into that but to start and set the scene, I will discuss what I believe fuelled the craze in the seventies and eighties.

Many people are like magpies, they enjoy collecting, but what they collect depends on what captures their interest first. It could be stamps, coins, art or in our case comics. One of the reasons collectors originally started collecting comics was because they wanted to make their sets or runs of comics complete. For example if you bought Spider Man number 4 and started reading from there and enjoyed it, you would probably make an effort to buy issues 1, 2 and 3 but since they are no longer in circulation you would have to buy from another collector and pay a premium. You would then keep these safe and continue collecting the whole series. This is true of most items that people collect but comics are unique in that they have many other factors which influence their collectability. For example first appearances of characters that later on become more popular, increase a comics value, thereby creating key issues. Hulk issue 181 introduced Wolverine and now sells for hundreds of pounds, Amazing Spider Man 129 introduced The Punisher and is therefore much sort after, X-Men Giant Sized 1 and issue 94 introduced the new Uncanny X-men and both these issue are priced at ?1,000 + for a near mint copy. This is also true of popular villains, I think Iron Man 54 introduced Thanos and X-men 5 introduced Magneto, both these comics are in demand and very expensive. In addition to these influences, another factor has arisen. Once an artist becomes popular, his earlier work, when he was less well known, increases in value. An example being, the late great Jack Kirby or even living legends like Neal Adams.

The reason I am talking about American comics is because they started to introduce artificial means to increase a comics collectability, such as multiple covers, crossovers and platinum covers, which as we all know, has now backfired. There is now a gap in the market, which I believe 2000AD can fill.

2000AD has all of the above factors, which instigated and fuelled the original comic collecting boom in the seventies.

Firstly, there has been a single run of 2000AD since 1977, currently reaching prog 1371. This would be a challenge for any collector to complete and ultimately a very satisfying achievement. Secondly, in this run, covering 4 decades, over 26 years, (you can work that one out!) there have been many popular characters introduced, thereby creating key issues in 2000ADs history. For example, as you all know prog 2 introduced Judge Dredd and sold last year for ?551 through Comic Book Postal Auctions. Prog 149 introduced Judge Death. Prog 228 introduced Rogue Trooper. Prog 1035 introduced Nikolai Dante. I will mention all the other key issues later. In addition, 2000AD has also launched the careers of many artists who have become massive world wide, as a result, their first works have appeared in many different progs, artists such as Brian Bolland, Carlos Ezquerra and in recent years, Henry Flint. The progs where their art first appeared will one day be much sort after.

Another factor which 2000AD has, which American comics don?t, is the inclusion of free gifts in certain issues. When free gifts are included, most are taken from the comic, used and then discarded. This means that the issues which are preserved with their free gifts intact, are then much harder to find, the comic is not complete without the free gift and cannot be considered near mint.

Apart from prog 2, all the other issues, from 30 onwards, can currently be picked up for a few pounds, many are being sold unwittingly at comic conventions for 50p - ?1.00, when they are a potential goldmine. In addition to the above, it is much harder to find near mint copies of the first 500 progs of 2000AD due to the poor quality paper that they were printed on

I believe that 2000AD is the new Marvel because it has all the factors needed to recreate what fuelled the original craze and like Marvel, there is a whole Universe of Characters, which has been built up and established in British culture over the passed 26 years.

With all of the above in mind, I have created a list of what I believe are the key issues that will eventually increase in value. I will also include what prices they are currently selling for.

Prog 1 (Very hard to find in Near Mint, with free gift, which was a Space Spinner. Top price ?551 Comic Book Postal Auctions December 2002).
Prog 2 (Very hard to find in Near Mint, with free gift, which was the Bionic Stickers. First Appearance of Judge Dredd. Top price ?551 Comic Book Postal Auctions December 2002).
Prog 3 (Very hard to find in Near Mint, with free gift, which was the secret agent wallet. Top price ?221 Comic Book Postal Auctions December 2002).
Prog 4 ? 10 (As with the above, much sort after and very hard to find in near mint, current prices range between ?15 - ?40 each)
Progs 71, 72, 77 & 78. (All these progs were banned due to infringement of copy write and will never be aloud to be reprinted. (Prices vary on ebay, but depending on condition they sell for between ?20 and ?40.00)
Prog 149 ? 151 (First run of the three prog Judge Death story. Also, first appearance of Judge Anderson in prog 150. Approx ?7.00 each)
Prog 160 (First appearance of Mean Machine and the Angel Gang. Approx ?2.00)
Prog 228 (First appearance of Rogue Trooper. Approx ?4.00)
Prog 300 (This copy is very hard to find with the free metal Judge Dredd badge stuck to the front. Approx ?4.00)
Prog 330 (First appearance of Slaine. Approx ?1.50)
Prog 780 (First appearance of The Button Man. Approx ?5 but very hard to find with the free wallet, which was attached to the front)
981 (First appearance in 2000AD of Sinister Dexter. Approx ?2.00. Although they did appear, for the first time, in the 1995 2000AD Winter Special)
1035 (First appearance of Nikolai Dante. Very hard to find with the free Space Girls Poster. Approx ?2.00)
Prog 1159 (Came in two covers. One with Devlin Waugh on the front and one with The Hangman. Very hard to find with the Hangman cover. The Devlin Waugh issue also had a free CD Rom. Approx ?2.00)
1208 (There was a pallet load of this issue damaged by flood and so it was not distributed well throughout the country. There are now very few in circulation and may be the rarest 2000AD comic after prog 2. Prices vary on ebay but it has sold for between ?20 and ?50.00).

In addition the Summer Special Super Comic from 1977 is very hard to find and sells for between ?20 - ?35. Also, mentioned above, the Winter Special from 1995 has the first ever appearance of Sinister Dexter and for some reason does not appear very often on ebay but when it does, it sells for about ?10. The first 2000AD annual from 1978 is the hardest of the annuals to come across and sells for about ?15 - ?20. There are some copies which do not have the 1978 date on the cover or the spine, also, they are not priced inside. These are very scarce and I have only ever seen 2 copies. I cannot remember what price they sold for but I value them at about ?50.

All the above comics are not the only key issues and I am sure many of you can think of a lot more. Also, I have not included the first appearance of any artists work, so if anyone has more time than me, it would be great to see a more comprehensive list.

My main point for writing this piece, is because I am trying to make the point that nobody seems to realize the potential for many of the above comics and if any of the other characters take off in a big way, such as Nikolai Dante or Rogue Trooper, then prices will sky rocket. I would love to see more of 2000AD back issues at comic conventions, this can only lead to new readers and lapsed readers returning to the comic. Finally, the reason I am saying that Rebellion is not taking advantage of this, is because at this years Dreddcon, there was only one stall selling back issues and they were from about progs 500 and above, many were multiple issues and it was totally uninspired. Surely the place to sell back issues of 2000AD is the Dreddcon, they certainly had enough space.

So, my message to you guys is, that you can pick up 2000ADs with first appearances and great artists, for a couple of quid, surely that?s a risk worth taking.

stront692

i have completed my collection now - i think the main problem is that u are missing the point, there are only a handful of uk comics shops left - we have a much smaller uk market with about 30,000 hardcore collectors that buy most stuff and any shop which sets up quickly runs out of the key issues u have set out above and as the price rises they are unable to buy them back in again

this is caused by a combination of greed and jealousy as our obsession with class means that a rumour of something being worth money spreads like wildfire to the ppoint that everybody wants the same amount for their copy or item (even though its in bad condition etc)

if u go down this route u may make a lot of money intially but in the long run it will end the same way as the adult and uk small press explosion of the mid 90s, which was fuelled by the fact that there were a lot of would be creators here and no market for them

all the adult comics had massive intial sales but then due to the sale and return nature of our news stand business they couldnt sustain them (dont forget in the uk u have to print a high number of first few issues without knowing how many returns u are going to get back, by the time issue 3 is out most most were in deficit but they were committed then with months of material commissioned, so u had to turn the pr machine and i think they started lying basically)

in the usa they have a massive chain of collector dealers, we have nowhere near that kind of market and ours is oly just stabilising now - by dropping the back issues and concentrating on new sales and merchandise

after the one off hit of selling their back issue inventory is gone, i think the industry will be on hard times over here again

stront692

Art

You know, for a second there I thought this was going to be something about actually *reading* the damn things...

Quirkafleeg


longmanshort

Your real name's not Lestat by any chance is it? Maybe you suffer from an aversion to light or French cooking?
+++ implementing rigid format protocols +++ meander mode engaged +++

Grant Goggans

I don't see what Rebellion's meant to do about creating a back issue market.  Surely if one is to exist at all, then it can only be determined by collectors, and not publishers.

More pressingly, if people were really willing to pay high premiums for early pro work by Bolland, Morrison, Moore, etc. then surely they would have done so when the back-issue comic market was at its strongest some seven or eight years ago.  But they didn't, and all those bins of old 2000 ADs at Gosh! and Forbidden Planet were left largely untouched and only occasionally sold to visiting Americans trying to fill holes in their collection.

--Grant

The Amstor Computer

"You know, for a second there I thought this was going to be something about actually *reading* the damn things..."

Nah - I saw who'd posted it.

longmanshort

So, my message to you guys is, that you can pick up 2000ADs with first appearances and great artists, for a couple of quid, surely that?s a risk worth taking

And, paradoxically, raises the value of YOUR collection. But I'm sure you're just in it to raise people's appreciation of 2000AD, rather lining your own pockets, yeah?

Because if that wasn't the case, this thread would make me VERY FUCKING ANGRY!
+++ implementing rigid format protocols +++ meander mode engaged +++

stront692

gmslegion - rebellion isnt supposed to create a back issue market (although they are doing a very good job at cashing in reprinting old and hard to find stories in graphic novel so our mate tarantino could well have a point - maybe they are the new marvel after all???)

i think tarantino is just flogging his wares and promoting issues he has a backlog of in an indirect way

Rosso

sorry, Tarantino, but that post is WAY  too long for me to read. Could you not at least have divided it up into two separate posts?

longmanshort

sorry, Tarantino, but that post is WAY too long for me to read. Could you not at least have divided it up into two separate posts?

Or maybe even not fucking bothered?!
+++ implementing rigid format protocols +++ meander mode engaged +++

JimBob

 have to agree with the long man, speculators have almost destroyed the comics industry once before why the hell would we want them back?
I find the idea of a brand new chrome covered #1 once every six months fills me with horror.

Grant Goggans

Yeah, I know that.  I'm questioning why this guy's trying to call this lack of interest in back progs to Rebellion's attention, as though it's a subject they can do anything about.

--Grant

Leigh S

If 2000AD became collectable while I were a lad trying to get the full set, I wouldnt have bothered - the very beauty of a 2000AD collection is that its relatively cheap to build.  The only people who would get an advantage out of 2000ADs price rising is someone sitting on many many copies of "valuable" progs - not the (normal) collectors (who wouldnt sell their only copy), not the potential collectors (who'd have to pay more) - Just the middle men and marketeers - no thanks

Queen Firey-Bou

oooh yeah comix and collection and.......ssnorrrrrrrrrrreeeee , oh dear the words have gone all fuzzy & my brain switched off, try monosyllabic next time not the dissertation.