It's a bit warm/ wet/ cold outside

[The Legendary Shark]

That's my worry. Putting all our eggs in the carbon basket seems very dangerous to me, and simply taxing carbon (especially given the inefficiencies and corruption endemic throughout such government solutions) simply cannot be our main strategy.

[TordelBack]

Carbon taxes have their place as PART of a much larger solution.  I won't get into their pro's here, but one major problem with focusing almost exclusively on this approach (and its painfully gradual implementation), as Greta so clearly enunciates with regard to the broader picture, is that it pretends that everything can go on as normal, just a wee bit more expensive. It can't. Our systems have to change, not just be tweaked a bit.

Obviously there's a sickening hypocrisy from Yours Truly, who was apparently quite happy to let the selfsame systems that perpetuate suffering through global inequalities, local poverty and disenfranchisement trundle on indefinitely, but only throws a wobbly when the tide of shit finally washes up on his own doorstep.  But this truly is an existential threat to the human world, and I'd rather own my moral inadequacies and do something.

[shaolin_monkey]

Well, I'd bet whatever we'll be using for currency in 20 years time that they'll be learning that Greta Thunberg UN Climate Action speech in hedge school.  Watching it felt like witnessing a key moment in history, maybe the very last key moment, with no knowledge of the outcome. Deeply affecting.

I'll accept many criticisms of the specific manifesto(s) of the movement, and caveats about the dangers and abuses of figureheads, but I will happily fight anyone who puts that young woman down. And the bunch of patronising feckers in attendance got exactly what they deserved. This isn't funny. This isn't aspirational. This isn't even manageable. We have to change everything. Now.

I 100% agree. To see the normally calm, thoughtful, logical and considered Greta get so angry, with frustration and desperation, made me want to weep.

[The Legendary Shark]

Tordels, I agree.

[The Legendary Shark]

The most recent two episodes of one of my favourite podcasts by quantum physicist Sean Carroll
, which should be of interest to fans of this thread.

Mindscape Episode 64 | Ramez Naam on Renewable Energy and an Optimistic Future.

Mindscape Episode 65 | Michael Mann on Why Our Climate Is Changing and How We Know.

Enjoy!

[shaolin_monkey]

Great to see Michael E Mann pop up there - thanks Sharky! You need to follow him on Twitter and FB. He's a goddam living legend.

Check out his book too - total eye-opener.

Sample here:

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Madhouse_Effect.html?id=LFVxDAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y

[shaolin_monkey]

All the emotions yesterday. First Greta's address to the UN Climate Summit attendees, then this.



(GIF may take a sec to load)

[shaolin_monkey]

That complaint those 15 kids are putting in against five countries:

https://childrenvsclimatecrisis.org/

[The Legendary Shark]

Call me cynical, but this smells a bit fishy to me. I'm reminded of the Kony 2012 video, which the US government exploited as an excuse for having troops in Uganda, just after China had begun negotiations to access its newly discovered oilfields. The US now supports Uganda's despotic president, supplying military training and hundreds of millions of dollars. In return, Uganda supplies troops to help US ally Saudi Arabia in Yemen and as security for US forces in Iraq, amongst other things. The search for Kony was quietly dropped in 2017, but the US forces are still there.

This feels like a similar thing, to me. A well-meaning movement catapulted into the limelight and about to be co-opted for something the public wouldn't otherwise swallow.

Hope I'm wrong. Watch what happens, I guess.

[TordelBack]

Like Chopper says, all gotta die sometime: I'd rather die on Thunberg's hill than in Trump's swamp, and I think those are now the only two options.

[The Legendary Shark]

Climate and the Money Trail.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Climate and the Money Trail.

A quick bit of research into the author's background reveals that his theories not only deny the magnitude of climate change and its causes, but also support the idea that oil is not of biological origin.  Sorry, Sharky, but it's hard to take a guy like that seriously.

[The Legendary Shark]

Fair enough, but what did you think about the article itself? I think the points he raises bear looking into, if only to disprove them.

[JayzusB.Christ]

I think the idea of the push to reduce emissions and the concept of saving our planet being nothing more than a conspiracy to make money is dangerously deluded, and I think that people like the author help to provide the likes of Trump with the excuse they need to keep driving us towards global catastrophe.  Which, by the way, is openly done for the money.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the powers that be don't need secret plots to fuck ordinary people over. They do it in plain sight, but too many people choose to look the other way or, like the guy who wrote this, go chasing phantoms instead. As for the overwhelming evidence that climate change is largely man-made, I'm not going into that again.

[The Legendary Shark]

Well, as I'm trying to tone it down, I'm not going to argue or defend/condemn the man or his work. I found the article interesting, like many posted on this thread and yes, I must admit, it does feed into my view of things. I'll just leave it for individuals to think about.