It Shoulda Ended with...

[TordelBack]

Babylon 5: Season 4.

Only acceptable if the real last epsiode is included.

But of course.

[IndigoPrime]

Rowling's lost me with Fantastic Beasts. That second movie left so little impression. It was just... dull. The Harry Potter movies are quite pedestrian in direction but at least they have interesting stories and characters. Plus they don't get all confused about nazis.

[Tjm86]

Harry Potter should have ended with Deathly Hallows.

The appeal of Harry Potter was and is a perpetual mystery to me.  There was absolutely nothing original in it, just a bizarre melange of Blyton's Mallory Towers and pretty much every fantasy trope ever written.  The characters ranged from the banal to the two dimensional, the prose was only a minor step above Mills and Boon.  I know I'm in the minority on this and millions of people would disagree (hell, some would even take me out in the streets and stone me for such heresy) but the only thing the films had over the books is that they had better pictures.

[IndigoPrime]

My wife adores the books. I'll admit I gave up when I saw book four, and the movies ranged from deeply impressive (Cuarón's Azkaban) to the borderline unwatchable (Newell's Goblet of Boredom). As for the films, I'm not a rabid fan, but I enjoyed them (bar Goblet) on a recent rewatch, but can't imagine ever sitting through either Fantastic Beasts again – nor any further films in that series.

[broodblik]

I have the same feeling about the superhero movies. We are gonna be flooded with millions of movies and mostly struggle to find something that is a stand-out. I can see that systemically that the MCU will be moving that direction especially now that the original characters are no more.

[Frank]

I have the same feeling about the superhero movies. We are gonna be flooded with millions of movies and mostly struggle to find something that is a stand-out. I can see that systemically that the MCU will be moving that direction especially now that the original characters are no more.

When Marvel started pitching the sequels to their origin story films as comedies, political thrillers* and horror movies, I realised their plan.

One day, all movies will be Marvel movies.

They're going to do the same to movies as they did to comics; whatever story you want to tell, you'll need to stick a (Marvel) superhero in it to get it made.


* Nobody makes comedies or thrillers anymore. Nobody who wants to make money, anyway

[TordelBack]

-shakes head sadly at Potter detractors-
Kids' books, and perfectly entertaining ones - comparison to Mallory Towers is not necessarily derogatory. No-one forces adults to read them (except aloud), there are many other book choices available. The movies are a mixed bag but generally ok, the last one was indeed muddled and oddly paced, but see above.

I've re-read Nemesis Book V, and I still think it's a big step down from IV and definitely from the first three. The Freck stuff is very good, but the daft (and IIRC never resolved) 'resurrection' of Torquemada, the past lives stuff, Magna's bikini, the offhand murder of Grobbendonk, Satanus and the ABC Warriors cluttering up the place... it's not terrible, but nor is it TorqueArmada or the Brick Moon or kindly spider gaolers (shades of Brexit there).

I'll push on with the rest in the cause of fairness, but so far I'm happy to maintain that the first 4 books stand on their own as pure classics.

The HIcklenton stuff is a breath of fresh crazy, agreed, but there's a lot of other dross yet to come...

[Greg M.]

Bah! Bk V remains my absolute favourite Nemesis yarn. My ranking (off the top of my head, subject to change in the cold light of day)... V, I, VI, TtG, IV, IX, VII, III, II, VIII, X.

Edited to clarify: I should add, VIII and X are the only books I'm not that fond of, all the rest are good / great / brilliant to varying degrees.

[TordelBack]

Part of my problem with Books V & VI seems to be the Warriors. All these long years have shown that Getting The Gang Together is pretty much the only viable ABC Warriors plotline, which is why Pat uses it to excess, and Book IV's version is arguably the best one of all - but after that, they're just in the way. Pat even sees this, dismissing their sole perfunctory 2-page action scene in Book V with "Right that's finished, back to the ship".

Worse, their transformation from decaying relics of the lost age of technology to Nemesis' goon squad seems to SciFi up the joint in a Time Killer sort of way - gone are the unique techno-medieval and (rather less unique) steam-punk stylings of earlier books, now everyone has laser guns and fancy robots and spacetimeships. Nemesis is wearing cargo pants now FFS.

I enjoy the Grand Dragon, the Arch Bigot, Nostradamus and all the Torque-Tat, but the Thanosing of Torquemada himself is just a terrible cop-out - as is Magna's off-hand comeuppance. 

I will admit that I was o'er-hasty saying Nemesis should have ended after Book IV - there's too much good stuff in there yet - but I do think it needed to be better than it was to keep up with the tone and originality of the first chunk.

[radiator]

There was absolutely nothing original in it, just a bizarre melange of Blyton's Mallory Towers and pretty much every fantasy trope ever written.

And that's a bad thing.... why, exactly?

Rowling has weaknesses as a storyteller - the later books are bloated and really needed tighter editing and the central mysteries of each book in the series are very convoluted and the payoffs/resolutions thereof tend to borderline gibberish. The appeal of the books for me is all in the characters, setting and tone - there's something comforting and almost nostalgic about them. The worldbuilding is also quite ingenious at times, as is the way the themes and narratives gradually mature with each book - it grew up with its audience in the same way Judge Dredd did.

[TordelBack]

There was absolutely nothing original in it, just a bizarre melange of Blyton's Mallory Towers and pretty much every fantasy trope ever written.

And that's a bad thing.... why, exactly?

Rowling has weaknesses as a storyteller - the later books are bloated and really needed tighter editing and the central mysteries of each book in the series are very convoluted and the payoffs/resolutions thereof tend to borderline gibberish. The appeal of the books for me is all in the characters, setting and tone - there's something comforting and almost nostalgic about them. The worldbuilding is also quite ingenious at times, as is the way the themes and narratives gradually mature with each book - it grew up with its audience in the same way Judge Dredd did.

Yup.

[Greg M.]

The appeal of the books for me is all in the characters, setting and tone - there's something comforting and almost nostalgic about them.

Indeed - my favourite bits are always the day-to-day joys and trials and friendships and rivalries that comprise termly life at Hogwarts, the soil through which the roots of the grand plot grow and are nurtured.

[Magnetica]

Harry Potter should have ended with Deathly Hallows.

The appeal of Harry Potter was and is a perpetual mystery to me.  There was absolutely nothing original in it, just a bizarre melange of Blyton's Mallory Towers and pretty much every fantasy trope ever written.  The characters ranged from the banal to the two dimensional, the prose was only a minor step above Mills and Boon.  I know I'm in the minority on this and millions of people would disagree (hell, some would even take me out in the streets and stone me for such heresy) but the only thing the films had over the books is that they had better pictures.

I am currently reading the Harry Potter books (which I like) to my son. We also read and listen to a lot of Roald Dahl. The difference in the language is striking to me. Dahl's is like the finest quality chocolate melting in your mouth, where as JK Rowling's language just isn't and indeed doesn't always seem grammatically correct. She is also, oddly to me, very fond of the word "dully" as in "Harry said dully".

[Funt Solo]

JK Rowling ... is also ... very fond of the word "dully" as in "Harry said dully".

Read enough A Song of Ice and Fire books and you'll wonder if they ever serve anything other than "trenchers of bread" in Westeros.

See also The Belgariad and The Mallorean, where you'll soon tire of "pennants snapping in the wind", as they do with what seems to be an increasing frequency.  Couldn't the pennants have drooped limply on a windless day just once?  (Or just not been mentioned.)

[broodblik]

Harry Potter is one of those stories which I did not even exists if it wasn't for the movies. Enjoyed when it lasted but not something I will remember as being a classic.