A teaser of trailer for big trailer tomorrow
Spider-Man got a little upgrade...
https://youtu.be/NbLP_SmhtuM (https://youtu.be/NbLP_SmhtuM)
New full trailer!
https://youtu.be/n9DwoQ7HWvI (https://youtu.be/n9DwoQ7HWvI)
looks great amazing,spectacular etc!!!
one thing will piss some corners of the internet off they've nicked ganke from the miles morales take .
but tom Holland was born to play the lovable loser.
Looks fantastic, but too much Tony Stark.
Anything with the wonderful Marisa Tomei in it can have my money. I'm
Quote from: von Boom on 09 December, 2016, 11:21:47 AM
Looks fantastic, but too much Tony Stark.
Yeah, I'm up for a high school spiderman (Garfield and Maguire always seemed college age at best) but would like less "They treat me like a kid" or Tony Stark.
I'm guessing the heavy Stark presence, the masked robbery gag and the subtitle is to reassure that this is the new MCU Spidey that you may/may not remember from Civil War and not any of the old ones. It does that job, but I imagine there will be far lowee RDJr quotient in the actual film.
Looks fun.
I assumed the "part of a larger superhero universe" stuff is to reassure you this isn't that crappy Amazing Spider-Man movie series that only made a paltry 3 billion dollars, and that this is more like that Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon show that everyone loves.
Quote from: Grugz on 09 December, 2016, 10:05:54 AM
looks great amazing,spectacular etc!!!
one thing will piss some corners of the internet off they've nicked ganke from the miles morales take .
but tom Holland was born to play the lovable loser.
Except once again, he seems to hook up with hot girl in first film... Isn;t the great thing about Spider-Man that the great power brings great responsibility? Which means he puts himself out there for the good of others and to great personal loss - which is the heartbreaking Betty Brant storyline that they have ignored for a GODDAMNED third time! (Tom Holland looks ace though)
Well in a day when I've seen a new Apes trailer for the first time that was always going to have an up hill struggle - but was it just me or was that a bit... flat... seemed a bit ... directionless. Too much going on, too much of which we've seen before?
Quote from: Leigh S on 09 December, 2016, 05:48:21 PMExcept once again, he seems to hook up with hot girl in first film... Isn;t the great thing about Spider-Man that the great power brings great responsibility? Which means he puts himself out there for the good of others and to great personal loss
Spidey's personal losses usually come because he's been an asshole in some way (the most obvious example being letting the crook escape who would later kill his uncle), and across the various media he's portrayed as motivated by guilt, not altruism - but even so, he does seem to fall into the orbit of what I would have referred to in less enlightened times as Some Top Shelf Fillies. That when Gwen Stacy died and he had to "settle" for a supermodel just about sums it up.
Why it's almost as if Spidey's enduring appeal lies in some sort of adolescent wish fulfillment fantasy... I think you're on to some deep thematic secret there, Prof.
Was Spidey really that popular with kids before the Raimi movies? He always seemed to me to be a vaguely culty thing for comics nerds more than the wider phenomenon he would become in the 21st century.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 09 December, 2016, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 09 December, 2016, 05:48:21 PMExcept once again, he seems to hook up with hot girl in first film... Isn;t the great thing about Spider-Man that the great power brings great responsibility? Which means he puts himself out there for the good of others and to great personal loss
Spidey's personal losses usually come because he's been an asshole in some way (the most obvious example being letting the crook escape who would later kill his uncle), and across the various media he's portrayed as motivated by guilt, not altruism - but even so, he does seem to fall into the orbit of what I would have referred to in less enlightened times as Some Top Shelf Fillies. That when Gwen Stacy died and he had to "settle" for a supermodel just about sums it up.
That's true, though the Betty Brant relationship shows that Peter has embraced a selfless path, letting the woman he loves run off with his rival to save her future pain. While other losses are thrown at him unwittingly/because he is an asshole, losing Betty Brant is an act of pure unconditional love and its comic's Casablanca moment. Not sure why this hasnt been seized on by the film types - let him have a few films of misery before shacking up with super models in film 4 or 5
Quote from: Professor Bear on 09 December, 2016, 10:23:08 PM
Was Spidey really that popular with kids before the Raimi movies? He always seemed to me to be a vaguely culty thing for comics nerds more than the wider phenomenon he would become in the 21st century.
Really? Wow that's curious. Spidey's popularity as a mass market figure has not exactly been hiding under a bushel. Nowt to do with the comics or anything I'm sure, much like Wonder Woman or Superman, but on a bigger scale, for years but he's been on products consistently. Numerous popular telly shows etc etc.
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic there but if not... wow.
As a kid going into the newsagents, I would see more Spider-Man comics than even Superman.
Actually, Marvel were generally better catered for than DC characters. My main exposure to DC characters were through TV shows and films where they generally did better than Marvel, bar the Hulk.
We all knew about Spidey and were aware of his many fine licensed products because we live the comics dream - but I'm talking about the kind of pop-cultural cache of Superman or Batman that goes beyond cult novelty. For all his appearances in cartoons and parades (in balloon form) Spidey didn't really have that until this side of the millennium.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 10 December, 2016, 12:55:39 PM
We all knew about Spidey and were aware of his many fine licensed products because we live the comics dream - but I'm talking about the kind of pop-cultural cache of Superman or Batman that goes beyond cult novelty. For all his appearances in cartoons and parades (in balloon form) Spidey didn't really have that until this side of the millennium.
I'd say that was nonsense.
Nah, it's an interesting question. I'm often intrigued to see what other people are or are not aware of. Despite never having really read mainstream DC comics I can get 100% in one of those Facebook character quizzes, the result of a similar one on football strips would be closer to 5%. Even info that's peripheral to your stated interests can get filtered out or stored depending. However, in the case of Spidey, I'd say that two cartoon series and one live actionTV series, a catchy theme tune,and a regular presence of Marvel UK titles in the newsagents would mean that kids in the 70s-90s would have had Spidey ranked in the Top 5 of recognisable superheroes (along with Superman, Batman, Hulk, and Captain America - not sure about Wonder Woman).
Its in no way scientific but I'd have said for a good chunk of time I've been alive the only immediately recognisible superheroes to the vaste majority of the population - well before the Raimi films came along, where Superman, Batman, Spider-man and Wonder Woman. With Hulk ticking along somewhere there as well. I don't think Cap America has had much recognition outside of fandom, certainly in the UK until relatively recently. Similarly Wolverine has developed a degree of 'celebrity' these days but even when massive amongst comics fans was invisible to most the population.
Captain America not recognised outside fandom? Nonsense.
Captain America was in his own cartoon show, a movie serial, two films starring footballing legend Reb Brown and Christopher "The Best Dracula" Lee, appeared in no less than three Spider-Man cartoons and several episodes of the X-Men and Fantastic Four cartoons, a 1990s movie revival starring Ronny "I'm Cashing You Out, Bob" Cox and Matt "Nope Me Neither" Salinger, and even lent his name to a character in Easy Rider.
.
Interest in film adaptations of comic character properties is mainly generated via novelty underwear for adults in the clothing section of supermarkets.
If Tharg ever teams up with George at Asda for a range of KISS MY AXE boxers and I DID NOT THINK IT TOO MANY y-fronts, you'll know negotiations over the live action rights to Sláine are going well.
At this point, a lesser man would make a joke about shooting sticky white stuff out of something you keep in your Spider-Man underpants.
Spider-man'a had his own balloon in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade since the 1980s.
Spider-man is a pop culture figure easily recognised well beyond the boundaries of comics.
Quote from: GordonR on 10 December, 2016, 04:34:27 PM
Quote from: Professor Bear on 10 December, 2016, 12:55:39 PM
For all his appearances in cartoons and parades (in balloon form) Spidey didn't really have (pop-cultural cache) until this side of the millennium.
Spider-man'a had his own balloon in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade since the 1980s.
Bet Professor Bear wished he'd said that.
Quote from: TordelBack on 10 December, 2016, 01:47:04 PM
in the case of Spidey, I'd say that two cartoon series and one live actionTV series, a catchy theme tune,and a regular presence of Marvel UK titles in the newsagents would mean that kids in the 70s-90s would have had Spidey ranked in the Top 5 of recognisable superheroes (along with Superman, Batman, Hulk, and Captain America - not sure about Wonder Woman).
Yeah, I'm puzzled by the notion that Spider-Man is seen as some kind of fan cult as he really was the first superhero I had any real awareness of beyond just the name, and that came via comics, cartoons, toys, costumes and seeing the literal
hyphenated man - Nicholas Hammond - when the TV episodes were first released as films in Europe (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076975/releaseinfo?ref_=tt_dt_dt) and later on d'telly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jls08MQiFA).
It seems Marvel had a stronger weekly presence on this side of the world than DC outside of the Superman films and Batman, Wonder Woman TV shows. I don't remember seeing many DC cartoons or comics growing up until The Dark Knight Returns, Swamp Thing, Watchmen and the cartoon/film adaptations in the 90's.
Spider-Man certainly was an attractive character to younger boys and I would've been acutely aware of the larger Marvel universe even though I didn't read the comics beyond some Spider-Man, Doctor Strange and Secret Wars, whereas I didn't know anything at all of the DC universe beyond Batman, Wonder Woman and Superman. Of course you notice a lot less of what you're not interested in as a kid.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 10 December, 2016, 02:55:03 PM
Captain America not recognised outside fandom? Nonsense.
Captain America was in his own cartoon show, a movie serial, two films starring footballing legend Reb Brown and Christopher "The Best Dracula" Lee, appeared in no less than three Spider-Man cartoons and several episodes of the X-Men and Fantastic Four cartoons, a 1990s movie revival starring Ronny "I'm Cashing You Out, Bob" Cox and Matt "Nope Me Neither" Salinger, and even lent his name to a character in Easy Rider.
But I bet he was far less popular than Spider-Man. The titanic (http://spiderman-films.wikia.com/wiki/Spider-Man_(James_Cameron)) and expensive struggle to untie the Spider-Man film rights that took up most of the 90's is indicative of how much the character was sought after and liked.
I confess my only awareness of Captain America was his image, in Ireland mainly known through the eponymous (and unlicensed) restaurant in Dublin where (it was rumoured) posh kids went for their birthdays.
That about sums it up. "Captain Americas" - there was a branch in Dún Laoghaire. The decor was a pre-Eddie Rockets mix of Cap panels and Americana. Amazing that Marvel let them off with using the name unlicensed for nearly 40 years but when the Captain America film was released they tried to sue - I think they eventually did pay a fee and had to stop using the image of Captain America.
I was making a point about how subjective this argument is either way - IE: my points about Cap's popularity outside nerd-dom were already made by others as reasons for Spidey's popularity with normos - but now that you've brought it up, has there ever been a chain of restaurants called Spider-Mans?
To be fair to Colin, he did say "relatively recently" when referring to awareness of Cap.
As a kid I had the feeling that Superman and Batman were the most well known comics characters and that Spider-Man, in the UK, was an up and coming underdog in terms of awareness outside of comics. I based this opinion partly on the fact that I felt there was a limited amount of Marvel merchandise available, in comparison to DC.
All to my frustration, as DC comics were not considered cool amongst my school friends. I once counted my entire comics collection and my brother wouldn't accept I had more comics than him. By his logic, DC comics didn't even count as comics.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 10 December, 2016, 05:30:36 PM
I was making a point about how subjective this argument is either way - IE: my points about Cap's popularity outside nerd-dom were already made by others as reasons for Spidey's popularity with normos - but now that you've brought it up, has there ever been a chain of restaurants called Spider-Mans?
No, but neither were there any Supermans or Batmans.
The reason the name was chosen was presumably because Captain America had "America" in the title
- it being a Yank themed restaurant - and it was a simple, marketable personified image like Ronald Mc Donald.
It is subjective, but apart from the iconography in a restaurant in Dublin, I don't remember much Captain America related material being available at the time.
Again, I was not actually arguing that Cap was popular or well-known, just that if you were interested in geek culture, it might seem to be a possibility.
Spider-Man might not have had a restaurant named after him, but he did have crisps (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYo-SWpMAjA).
He also had enough mainstream recognition to be parodied by Kenny Everett (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe0sxY31AHk).
And Benny Hill did Wonder Woman (http://benny-hill.wikia.com/wiki/Wonder-Gran), (if you'll pardon the expression).
Quote from: Professor Bear on 10 December, 2016, 06:12:41 PM
Again, I was not actually arguing that Cap was popular or well-known, just that if you were interested in geek culture, it might seem to be a possibility.
Even without knowing the essentials of his story, Cap always did seem more - like Batman and Superman - of a
vintage, which of course he is in every way coming from a different skein of value based icons and that's why he felt more distant, culturally, than Spider-Man or The Hulk. Maybe that's the difference we're sensing, age.
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 10 December, 2016, 05:47:43 PM
The reason the name was chosen was presumably because Captain America had "America" in the title - it being a Yank themed restaurant - and it was a simple, marketable personified image like Ronald Mc Donald
Further to this point, Captain America's (restaurant) preceeded the arrival of Mickey D's first Irish incarnaction - on the very same street - by 6 years. So very much flying Old Glory.
Hope they have replaced him with massive Peter Fonda posters....
Quote from: TordelBack on 10 December, 2016, 09:07:04 PMFurther to this point, Captain America's (restaurant) preceeded the arrival of Mickey D's first Irish incarnaction - on the very same street - by 6 years. So very much flying Old Glory.
We were so awesome back then, especially Cork (http://www.irishcentral.com/news/two-irish-groups-still-fly-racist-confederate-flag-says-washington-post).
(http://www.irishcentral.com/images/MI-cork-hurling-confederate-flag.jpg)
Quote from: Leigh S on 10 December, 2016, 10:04:15 PM
Hope they have replaced him with massive Peter Fonda posters....
Some panels remain.
(http://www.wheretoeat.ie/storage/galleryimage/bigImageFile-10868.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/spkqNrz.jpg)
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 10 December, 2016, 10:14:59 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 10 December, 2016, 10:04:15 PM
Hope they have replaced him with massive Peter Fonda posters....
Some panels remain.
(http://www.wheretoeat.ie/storage/galleryimage/bigImageFile-10868.jpg)
Good fucking hamburger. That is all.
The thing about Captain America, for me, is that the modern films have taken everything I hated about the character as a nipper (stupid name, propagandistic nature) and, by acknowledging the basic stupidity of those ideas and the way they were basically foisted on him and turned them into strengths. I love the modern incarnation of a man out of his time, struggling to stick to old-fashioned values in a "f*ck you" modern age.
As a youngster I much preferred Spider-Man or Batman but now Cap is my favourite superhero with Wolverine a close second. (In my head I have a cover image of Cap's shield with three Wolverine claw scars on it - but this is such an obvious idea that it must already exist.)
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 25 March, 2017, 12:01:46 AM
The thing about Captain America, for me, is that the modern films have taken everything I hated about the character as a nipper (stupid name, propagandistic nature) and, by acknowledging the basic stupidity of those ideas and the way they were basically foisted on him and turned them into strengths. I love the modern incarnation of a man out of his time, struggling to stick to old-fashioned values in a "f*ck you" modern age.
As a youngster I much preferred Spider-Man or Batman but now Cap is my favourite superhero with Wolverine a close second. (In my head I have a cover image of Cap's shield with three Wolverine claw scars on it - but this is such an obvious idea that it must already exist.)
I know what you mean. I think Chris Evans (not the ginger one) deserves a huge amount of credit. There's a noble charisma he lends to the part that is completely absent from the current Man of Steel. There's a line in The First Avenger, Cap says "I just hate bullies" or words to that effect, and I Swooned...
It was a very macho and manly swoon...
A manly swoon, yes, that's a perfect description of the way I feel too. Like it's okay to be a good guy, it's okay to stick up for the weak, it's okay to believe that the majority of people are basically decent and, above all, it's okay to bet your life on those beliefs.
Yeah, I know that most people are cynical and have little faith in humanity but Cap, just like me, knows that we are only hope. We have to believe in ourselves or we're f*cked - and it isn't superpowers that makes us special, it's the stubborn belief in our own flawed humanity. Even when battling the vastly superior Iron Man, his assertion that "I can do this all day" isn't about power, it's about belief.
Captain America be damned - it's Captain Humanity to me, and Chris Evans (again, to me) captures that perfectly.
I wonder if (with a vast portion of personal Sharkcentric arrogance) Captain America typifies what it really means to be human; as if the superpower we each and every one of us possess is quite simply our own humanity...
Yeah, yeah - I'll get me coat. But, y'know, I believe in the basic decency of my species, just like Cap.
Maybe I should have a shield (with the ~~~^~~~ logo) as well :D
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 25 March, 2017, 12:01:46 AM
(In my head I have a cover image of Cap's shield with three Wolverine claw scars on it - but this is such an obvious idea that it must already exist.)
I think it's been done a few times:
(http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/anaconda888/black_panther_scratched_shield_cap_zpscjr9c4mc.jpg)
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 25 March, 2017, 03:21:57 AM
A manly swoon, yes, that's a perfect description of the way I feel too.
Yep, well put. Cap went from an 'also ran' hero to placing in my affections over the course of one movie. I also love the way his three movies progressively explore how his type of idealism interacts with the 'real' world and its demands.
Similarly heroic is Hiccup in
How to Train Your Dragon 2, a magnificent example of someone who lives his simple convictions despite everything: the lack of fuss or farce where he forgives [spoiler]first the blameless Toothless and then the very-definitely-responsible Drago for his father's murder[/spoiler] is genuinely inspiring. No hint of a revenge-driven plot, just selfless striving for peace and co-operation. Love that guy.
Trailer 2 released today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiTECkLZ8HM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiTECkLZ8HM)
Exposition heavy, but I really cannot wait for this!
The latest subscriber's edition of Empire magazine has a nice black and white Spidey cover by Alan Davis and Mark Farmer (with the Empire title in red).
I would never claim to be a superhero fan, in fact they generally leave me cold, but Spider-Man: Homecoming was a hell of a lot of fun.
Not as portentous or poe faced as the majority of the genre and not muddled and dull-Wonder Woman I'm looking at you!
The villain had some convincing motivation for once, all topped of by a simply brilliant and genuinely chilling performance from the great Michael Keaton.
The film also refreshingly avoided the usual generic 'countdown clock' climax
Highly recommended.
I felt the high-school stuff a bit flimsy and lacked enough inventiveness. Getting by on sheer cutting and momentum it didn't have much substance; as in, what the spider-bite/Uncle Ben elements managed to fill in previous 'origin' films, school-life and friendship should've filled more substantially in this iteration –there are hints– although Parker's sense of detachment from his friends is handled simply and effectively.
It's only when the story a steps outside the school milieu into Stark Industries and Damage Control that it gets more engaging and Keaton's story does manage to elevate it beyond the mediocre with a great narrative turn that both Keaton and Holland sell the shit out of. These also happen to be the points where it's most like the Sam Raimi films.
Great cast, confident and light on its feet, but a little too light.
Just caught up with this and thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't think it has the research factor of some other recent films I've liked but Holland and Keaton are great especially when that twist shows up. And hey, Donald Glover!
Any quibbles I have are minor; he is invulnerable only until the plot demands he is knocked out and Happy would surely be given NO task of any importance even in the Trump administration let alone in Stark's world. And Tiny Tips says that Peter Parker quipping commentary is much more annoying on second viewing.
But yeah, fun to be had.
His quipping is a very Spidey thing to do, though, right?
Much as I really do like the previous Spider-man films (with the exception of one that I haven't seen, so can't judge either way - the second of the second reboot,with Electro as the main villain) and I find the Peter Parker of Raimi's films very endearing, the MCU Spider-man seems closest to the comics as a character.
Aunt May, and his home, not so much. I like her as a character, but she isn't the Aunt May of the comics. Raimi's aunt May got it right, in that regard.
I always found the quips problematic in that they usually fed into the narrative that Spidey was a bullied kid who in turn became a bully. It makes him a more interesting character than he'd otherwise be, but too often the core of the character being a selfish arsehole is ignored - although the dreadful 1990s cartoon was spot-on in realising this over the years, to the point that when Spidey meets alternate universe versions of himself, the one whose Uncle Ben never died is a successful businessman because he was never guilted into changing his ways.