Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film

[JamesC]

Some of the stuff on that list is quite hard to believe.

American Graffiti was a bigger hit than Batman (1989), Superman, or any of the Lord of the Rings films?

There is a reason George was eventually able to make a ludicrously uncommercial space film just because he wanted to.

I knew it has been successful - and more successful than had been expected. I just didn't realise it was some kind of mega-hit!

[Hawkmumbler]

As big as Batman, Superman and LOTR's are, they are still niche genre films. American Graffiti has much more universal appeal.

[sheridan]

Some of the stuff on that list is quite hard to believe.

American Graffiti was a bigger hit than Batman (1989), Superman, or any of the Lord of the Rings films?

There is a reason George was eventually able to make a ludicrously uncommercial space film just because he wanted to.

I knew it has been successful - and more successful than had been expected. I just didn't realise it was some kind of mega-hit!

It was so successful that it inspired the title of a Judge Dredd story once!

[Ancient Otter]

Luke's disappearance - [spoiler]Anyone have any ideas for his absence? I reckon he went in self-imposed exile after massacring all of the Knights of Ren after they killed all his students.[/spoiler]

[Theblazeuk]

That is a good theory. I hope it is true!

[The Legendary Shark]

Finally got around to seeing this. I was not disappointed!

[radiator]

Luke is a capable space pilot. Who only ever flew T-65s down Beggar's Canyon before...

Worse than that, it was a T-16 which has 3 wings and no nose, so really couldn't be expected to handle remotely like a T-65 high performance starfighter.

But it's okay, because he's a boy, which means he's a hero when he does these things. Rey however is a stinky girl, so when she does it she's a pathetic feminazi liberal PC Mary Sue ruining our Warz.

I'd expect more from you, Tords (even if, as I suspect, you're saying that with a layer of irony).

FWIW, I'm thrilled that the lack of diversity in Star Wars (and big budget movies in general) has started to be addressed - it goes without saying that it's long overdue. I think Daisy Ridley is fantastic, but I also believe that she elevates what is, in my opinion, a very muddled character on paper.

And regarding the point about Luke, at least we get a somewhat plausible reason as to why he's a skilled pilot. Other than that, I really don't see the (supposedly) unflattering comparison being drawn here. Luke does one cool thing, yes, but he's far from a badass. I think people's issue with Rey is that she goes from Luke at the beginning of ANH to Luke at the end of ESB over the course of one film, and it feels very rushed.

That is a good theory. I hope it is true!

As I say, the very fact that there are so many 'theories' and speculative click-bait flying around regarding, among other things, Kylo Ren, Rey's vision/flashback, Luke, Rey's parentage, the map, the First Order, Snoke's 'true' identity etc etc etc suggests to me that people are actively trying to crowdsource story fixes because they know - on some level - that what we got was a bit unsatisfying and doesn't really hold up to any kind of scrutiny. All par for the course where Abrams is concerned.

The original movies were able to hint at a much bigger story happening off-screen and leave plenty of scope for sequels, or prequels or spin-offs, but they never relied on those sequels, prequels or spin-offs to give vital context or explain crucial plot points or character motivations in the way TFA does. We should be wondering where the story will go next, not assuming/wondering whether sequels will retroactively make this film make more sense. Honestly, it kind of blows my mind that so many people are unable to make this distinction.

Or, you know, maybe it's a bit quaint and old-fashioned of me to expect a film to be reasonably self-contained and not leave me with loads of nagging questions in this age of cross-media megafranchises and shared cinematic universes. Not being facetious or anything, just find myself thinking this kind of thing a lot.

[TordelBack]

None of what you say is wrong, Radiator - the story and by extension the setting is slight, incomplete and unsatisfying, that's the really big flaw of TFA, no question. And a very Abrams flaw it is too. It's frustrating, and disappointing.

However, after three movies of unlikeable inconsistent characters, disconnected action and leaden dialogue, I'm prepared to allow the new film to swing too far the other way, and spend its valuable time getting us really involved with some engaging new folk (and some old folk too).  So I suppose where we differ is the degree to which the characters make up for the plot problems. For me, they more than do. I love the characters, I really do. I'm prepared to paper over the cracks with fan rationalisations and multimedia patches, just so I can watch them in action. I've done worse mental gymnastics for far less.

FWIW I still don't see Rey's [spoiler]miraculous progress as an issue.  The title of the movie, Snoke and Kylo's dialogue and reactions, Maz's comments, Rey's own incredulity - they all sell the idea of a startling emergence of power, very unlike what we see with Luke's more gradual journey. I still don't really see her achievements as unbelievable either - a self-professed pilot whose suddenly-awakened Force talents give her a stunning boost, a junkyard fixer who can fix junkyard spaceships, a Force prodigy subjected to an attempt at mental control who can turn that around and control others,, a skilled unarmed fighter who runs away from a conflicted, badly injured opponent, then for a moment finds focus in the Force enough to defeat him. None of this seems off for me, none of it is at odds with Anakin's abilities (for example) [/spoiler]and while I suspect there is more to know than is in the movie, I don't need it for her character to work for me.

And a LOT of negative online reaction is solely and transparently because Rey is female, hence my earlier remarks (not in any way directed at you).

[JOE SOAP]

As I say, the very fact that there are so many 'theories' and speculative click-bait flying around regarding, among other things, Kylo Ren, Rey's vision/flashback, Luke, Rey's parentage, the map, the First Order, Snoke's 'true' identity etc etc etc suggests to me that people are actively trying to crowdsource story fixes because they know - on some level - that what we got was a bit unsatisfying and doesn't really hold up to any kind of scrutiny. All par for the course where Abrams is concerned.

I think a lot of that is because modern audiences have allowed themselves to expect there must be a mystery or twist with every film or TV series and they automatically read stuff into it that may not really be there. The age of the internet and TV producers has encouraged this by making an industry out of story speculation, conspiracies and spoilers backed with the ability for millions to share in that speculation. JJ Abrams's name alone brings that expectation because of some of his past work and presentations; even when he's not even indulging in it.

Most things in The Force Awakens are played pretty straight - if a little too momentary - and there's nothing on-screen to suggest why Snoke is a mystery anymore than the Emperor in the OT was. Feeding from Lucasfilm's massive output of back-up publications it's fans who have created a lot of the current fickle fever of mystery. Even if more context had been inserted into the film fans would still have speculated that Snoke was Plagueis, Luke or Salacious B. Crumb.

Rey's background is really the only mystery in The Force Awakens; whether that's due more to omission, not knowing the answer or it's more than that, remains to be seen.



As for the online 'Mary Sue' assault towards Rey that seemed initially driven by professionals/bloggers: I do have some minor issues with the character's behaviour - it's not explained, she doesn't have enough reaction or downtime - but not to the extent some people do; especially when plenty of male characters exhibit the same behaviour in mainstream popular films.

Matt Damon may be an ace Space-Botanist who has years of training and experience but some of the mental and physical stuff he pulls-off in The Martian -a supposedly 'grounded' film- is superhuman no matter how much science there is to back it up. The rest of his crew seem faultless in their abilities too but The Martian doesn't get criticsed because films can get a way with it when they're entertaining, clever enough and it's a male dominated space-adventure. This is not to excuse any faults in character set-up in The Force Awakens but a lot of the professional on-line criticism is overblown because of the film's exceptional profile and the lead actor happens to be a woman - Anakin 'just-out-of-nappies' Skywalker never had this amount of attention even though his Force-Journey in The Phantom Menace is even more ludicrous than Rey's.

[Jim_Campbell]

Oddly, I'm having a very similar conversation one-to-one with a friend as TB is with Radiator here... and I'm more or less with TB on this, for the same reasons — I like everything about TFA except for Giant Emperor Gollum and the entire plot of the movie but the stuff I do like goes a long way towards washing off the soulless stink of the prequels.

Episode VIII needs to be better, frankly, but I'll take this as a step up from Episodes I-III.

Cheers

Jim

[Goaty]

It's only a film and I enjoy it. I am sure they got plots in planning for sequel. No more Starkiller or Death Star!!

[Professor Bear]

Rey lives in a desert, yet there is oddly little in the way of criticism of the fact that she is very, very white.
Given how every other thing gets picked apart, this seems an odd omission.

[TordelBack]

Rey lives in a desert, yet there is oddly little in the way of criticism of the fact that she is very, very white.
Given how every other thing gets picked apart, this seems an odd omission.

Hey, she's got freckles!  Also, midichlorians obviously make for excellent sunscreen. Luke and Anakin were pretty pasty too, and their desert had two suns.

[James Dilworth]

Rey lives in a desert, yet there is oddly little in the way of criticism of the fact that she is very, very white.
Given how every other thing gets picked apart, this seems an odd omission.

What about her posh English accent and fantastic hair?

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Rey lives in a desert, yet there is oddly little in the way of criticism of the fact that she is very, very white.
Given how every other thing gets picked apart, this seems an odd omission.

Then just invent a strawman!

Are you new to the internet?