It's a bit warm/ wet/ cold outside

[shaolin_monkey]

I checked out those podcasts you posted earlier Sharky, and they are excellent, although I'm only halfway through the renewable energy one. However, the facts about how much the cost of creating solar panels has dropped is staggering!

I'm other news, I got my certificate in the science and global impact of climate change - 96%! Pleased with that, though the errors that cost me 100% were idiotic. Me not paying attention to the phrasing basically.

[IndigoPrime]

but also support the idea that oil is not of biological origin

Er, sorry, but what? I nearly missed this gem. What does he think oil is? Magic car-powering juice that was squirted into the planet from a gigantic bottle wielded by a god? FFS.

[The Legendary Shark]

Glad you liked them, SM. I may not be sold on the prevailing views but I am a firm believer in cleaning up our act right across the board.

[IndigoPrime]

Ah, he's one of the abiogenic lot, and also doesn't believe oil is running out. He's in for a big fucking shock, then.

Yet again, it all smacks of this:

[The Legendary Shark]

The Mysterious Origin and Supply of Oil

[IndigoPrime]

Yes, so our best hope for oil relies on a rare form of the substance existing in vastly greater quantities than thought, and in a manner that's commercially viable – and even then we'd still be screwed, given that it too would be finite. Again: "What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?"

[The Legendary Shark]

That's a weird leap. All it means is that there's another possibility for oil creation.

[IndigoPrime]

Not really. The anti-Green lot are dead set on "don't worry – everything is fine", when it demonstrably isn't.

[The Legendary Shark]

I'm not one of those, whatever it even means. I'm all for finding alternate energy sources but that doesn't necessarily mean throwing out the baby with the bathwater (or the oil).

The more we can develop alternate energy sources, the more we can use oil for other things, such as plastics - which are incredibly useful. Imagine moving away from using oil as a power source, that would mean more is available for plastics - but not the flimsy, one-use objects we have today. Imagine freeing up enough oil so that more can go into manufacturing, giving us thicker plastic bottles that can be washed and reused indefinitely, like the milk bottles of old but with the added bonus of increased durability. Little plastic doodads built to last instead of snapping every few months. Egg boxes, food cans, cutlery, planks - whatever - all designed to be recycled properly instead of simply downcycled like we do today.

[TordelBack]

Ye gods, more fossil fuels?!?  We need to keep what we have right where it is, except what we need for getting our asses to Maaaaahs (and building the clean alternatives).  Glass milk bottles are plenty durable, but I wouldn't get too attached to cow's milk if I were you.

I'm currently thinking of how hard it is to separate Americans from their guns, and reflecting on what it's going to be like parting them from their cars.

But mainly I'm feeling like the betrayer of my youthful convictions by betting on nuclear: a 24,000 year half-life doesn't seem so bad when the future of the human world can be measured in decades.

[IndigoPrime]

Renewables everywhere, backed by nuclear, is my take. Which is a take that pisses off just about every political wing.

[TordelBack]

Renewables everywhere, backed by nuclear, is my take. Which is a take that pisses off just about every political wing.

That's how you know it's the only right one.  The only slim chance we have, really.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Ye gods, more fossil fuels?!?

This oil isn't made of fossils, apparently.

It's the first I've heard of it - not saying it doesn't exist, but saying it does is very different from Engdahl's assertion that no oil is of biological origin.  Which is ridiculous.

[The Legendary Shark]

I didn't say more fossil fuels, I said more alternate energy sources so that oil can be used for different things. And not forever - new materials are being developed all the time so that one day we won't need plastics at all. In the meantime, let's use the oil we are pumping in better, cleaner ways. Just dumping oil altogether, at a stroke, might sound good but it isn't going to work. It needs to be phased out - by first concentrating on replacing it as a fuel source and then by developing other materials for manufacturing.

[TordelBack]

Just dumping oil altogether, at a stroke, might sound good but it isn't going to work. It needs to be phased out - by first concentrating on replacing it as a fuel source and then by developing other materials for manufacturing.

We need to keep what we have right where it is except what we need to.... [facetious pop culture reference deleted] ... build[ing] the clean alternatives.

Unfortunately 'phasing out' is what we should have been doing 25 years ago. Now we have no choice but to dump oil so fast it's going to really, really, really hurt. Ramping up nuclear (to run parallel with a massive switch to renewables, and electric transport), if we started in earnest right now, is going to take over a decade, and burn a lot of oil to get there - that's all the phasing-out time we have. And best case that's just going to take the edge off.

I'm not going to engage with the fossil/non-fossil oil nonsense. No more distractions. Time's up.

Imagine the fun that's ahead persuading the 1% of the UK population who take 20% of the flights (recent statistic that's in my head, obv not solely a UK issue) of this reality. Look where not-actually-banning-bendy-bananas got us.