I don't like superheroes anymore. Do you like superheroes?

[Prodigal2]

I clambered aboard the 2000AD mother-ship a few years back when my life long passion for the superhero genre died a death. I know a load of folk on here read across a very wide cross section of genres but I am interested in firming up my perceptions of how many folk still dig their spandex and how many attach themselves more exclusively to 2000AD precisely because it offers an alternative?

[Proudhuff]

Have never like the double gusset brigade, bring on The Boys and Marshall Law!!!

[The Adventurer]

I dig Super-Heroes. But I'm rather picky about it. Savage Dragon, The Legion of Super-Heroes... okay I thought I had more but its really down to those two these days. And Legion's been cancelled for months. Oh, Invincible. But that's in the same mold as Savage Dragon. Historically I'm a fan of The Fantastic Four, but I haven't followed their titles recently. Mostly due to Marvel's pricing policies.

Oh. And ONE-PUNCH MAN, of course. Can't forget the best comics of 2013. Didn't even come from the US, its manga.

I think its important to keep in mind that like most genres, not all Super-Hero comics are the same. And closing off all super-hero comics just because they share some of the same tropes on display is short sighted.

2000 AD definitely represents an alternative to the mainstream, but there are a lot of alternative sources these days. But here's the interesting bit I think. I read 2000 AD for the same reasons I read mainstream super-hero comics in my youth. Action & Adventure. 2000 AD is a source of GREAT action/adventure comics. Which at their best, are what Super-Hero comics also provide. There actually isn't a lot of difference between Judge Dredd and the classic spandex set when you break it all down to its most basic elements.

[BPP]

More likely what not many of us are interested in is the concept of 'The Good' Hero or comics marketed for children which advance un-flawed versions. Shiny-happy Flash comics? No thanks.

Most people likely have time for a very good story or artist but don't want to buy into X-Men X-hundredth X-dition and all the continuity it involves. I've zero interest in any of the big titles but in the last year have read and enjoyed Hawkeye, X-Men Legacy and Astro-City.

I do find it odd many people say they wont read Dredd because of the mountain of continuity but they jump onto Batman or the Avengers which seems impenetrably continuity bound to me. Plus, ya know, nobody dies. I think Image's success is partly due to more mature audiences (which hero comics have helped create post The Dark Knight) want mature consequences. Like death.

Atm I'm stuck on deciding if I'll buy Batman Death By Design as I've no interest in the character or writer but really love the artist's work. One of them, innit.

[The Adventurer]

Oh right, forgot about Astro City. Which is just fantastic, and it's absolutely drenched in classic super-hero tropes. But what makes Astro City great is that it's a commentary on those tropes and cliches. And those that read super-hero comics.

[Colin YNWA]

Yeah I love my superheroes, capes, pants brigade whatever you want to call them.

I am reading less and less new titles from the 'big two' down to just 4 at DC and one of them masquerades as Western and another couple are closer to Horror some might argue and all my Marvel titles are finishing! My current sending moving to more 'indie' titles. In there though there are some very good superhero titles, so The Victories for example, a very good title and not ya Grandma's superheroes that's for sure.

I still however lavish in back issues of sterotypical hero comics. Just this morning for example I was reading some of John Byrne's Superman run which I collected relatively recently. Such nostalgic tomfoolery seems to be more and more frowned upon, increasingly in the comics community, as we're all meant to be grown up and serious and what not. I however have no problem basking in a simple story, well crafted and well told. Superhero stories and comics bring out the best in each other I think and while I might be more picky about what I read there's a host of great old stories out there I just lap up.

[Spaceghost]

No, I don't like superheroes any more. They are seemingly written for children and I'm an adult now.

For one thing, the whole premise is ridiculous. Attempting to stop crime by dressing up and going out on 'patrol', hoping you'll spot a crime which you can then sort of prevent? Stupid.

Not to mention the fact that modern superhero comics seem to be cynically exploiting their readers with endless, flaccid continuity-changing events, such as repeated character death/re-birth, which ALWAYS go back to normal in the end like a Saturday morning cartoon.

They are the soap operas of the comics medium and I'd be embarressed for any adult I see reading a modern Marvel or DC superhero comic.

In my view, they are wish-fulfilment power fantasies for impotent adolescents and I find them dreary, predictable and boring.

I DO however like most modern super-hero films as they aren't bogged down with years of porridgey continuity and try something new with old stories.

I also like shonen manga such as One Piece, Naruto, Bleach etc which could be viewed as the Japanese equivalent of American superhero comics. The reason I like it is that most manga (certainly the ones I mention) are, by comparison, original, inventive exercises in storytelling. There is a beginning, middle and end to these stories, unlike superhero comics which go on, and on, and on, and on, recycling the same storylines, characters, villains and tropes forever.

[Charlie boy]

I'm still interested in them but I haven't gone out and collected a title for a long time; I'm even sorting through the collection now knowing more than 3/4 of my comics will be making their way to eBay (in the name of making more space if I'm honest) but I still go into comic shops to see what's happening although I mostly find myself in such stores now to look at the t-shirts and action figures now. Any superhero run that catches my eye can wait until it's available in collected editions but even then I was fully intending to start collecting the Waid run on DareDevil but decided against that, keeping "my DareDevil run" as Nocenti and the Chichester run up until a little after issue 300 (though I did add Miller's work to my collection a while later and had the Kevin Smith run but ended up selling the latter even tho I liked it) so I haven't actually picked up a collection for a while now that I think about it.
And yes, the True Believer in me has been giggling at times when I've got Lego Marvel Superheroes on but my interest in them, the checking up on them and their world from time to time, is little different to the people who use social networking sites to look at an ex's profile picture or whatever even if they don't really want to go back there.

[JamesC]

I like super heroes but the only comics I read are the UK Spider Man reprints for the Superior Spider Man story which is great fun and the Panini Pocket Books of classic Marvel material (which I think are about the best value comics available).
Other than that it's just 2000ad and the odd TPB that takes my fancy.
I was following the Valiant titles but I haven't read any for the last few months - I'll catch up though.

[Colin YNWA]

They are seemingly written for children and I'm an adult now.

I was wondering how long it would take to get this sort of post and had determined not to get involved in any sort of retort as that just seemed silly and not very productive. However there are some things said there that are silly so against my better judgement - hey here we go.

When has entertainment being designed for children meant it can't be enjoyed by adults. What utter rot and damned foolishness. There are countless examples of great children's entertainment enjoyed by adults across a host of media and comics are no different. So that's a none starter.

For one thing, the whole premise is ridiculous. Attempting to stop crime by dressing up and going out on 'patrol', hoping you'll spot a crime which you can then sort of prevent? Stupid.

Well yes and they also fly. But hey did you know there is no such things as dragons and such like, or more pertinently here for example 2000ad is full of stories that are utter fantasy. That does make them bad stories.

Not to mention the fact that modern superhero comics seem to be cynically exploiting their readers with endless, flaccid continuity-changing events, such as repeated character death/re-birth, which ALWAYS go back to normal in the end like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Well yes that's hard to deny. It is however true of any almost any form of entertainment run as a business. People (at the business end) try to make a product that they can sell to people that people want to buy. It might not be nice it might not be pretty but don't kid yourself.

They are the soap operas of the comics medium and I'd be embarressed for any adult I see reading a modern Marvel or DC superhero comic.

How very arrogant to be embarrassed on someone else's behalf for reading a comic. I read comics all the time in public, be they superhero or otherwise and trust me I don't want your pity or anything thank you. If you can't cope with someone engaging with a form of entertainment you don't get on with and get a little squirmy when you see in public don't say that's on someone else's behalf except that its your issue.

In my view, they are wish-fulfilment power fantasies for impotent adolescents and I find them dreary, predictable and boring.

What all of them, you can see no exceptions to this? Your choice of course but there is a great deal of different comics out there even from the big two and such sweeping statements, be they short hand or otherwise are a bit daft.

I DO however like most modern super-hero films as they aren't bogged down with years of porridgey continuity and try something new with old stories.

So the superhero tropes you don't like in comics are fine in cinema then? Why the distinction between one medium or another?

I also like shonen manga such as One Piece, Naruto, Bleach etc which could be viewed as the Japanese equivalent of American superhero comics. The reason I like it is that most manga (certainly the ones I mention) are, by comparison, original, inventive exercises in storytelling. There is a beginning, middle and end to these stories, unlike superhero comics which go on, and on, and on, and on, recycling the same storylines, characters, villains and tropes forever.

Errr so again you seem to accept that its not about the superheroness (its a word) its about... well your personal taste then. Which is fine but it does make a bit of a travesty of some of the other points you attempt make.

As I say I had no desire to get embroiled in any sort of bickering on this subject, but felt this post was worth the effort.

[IndigoPrime]

I clambered aboard the 2000AD mother-ship a few years back when my life long passion for the superhero genre died a death. I know a load of folk on here read across a very wide cross section of genres but I am interested in firming up my perceptions of how many folk still dig their spandex and how many attach themselves more exclusively to 2000AD precisely because it offers an alternative?

Mostly entirely 2000 AD and some select indies/alt titles for me: Usagi Yojimbo, almost anything related to Hellboy, Atomic Robo, Saga. Then again, I grew up on British comics—first humour titles and then 2000 AD. That's my comics grounding, not superheroes. When I did get a Spider-Man or a Batman as a kid, it didn't really compare to Judge Dredd, Nemesis and Strontium Dog. Today, I still feel much the same way. I have a very small number of superhero titles, but I've not really read any that wowed me. I did enjoy the Ultimates line for a while, but that rapidly went downhill, with dodgy art and some slothful pacing.

[judgerussell]

I tried to get into Marvel Comics a few years ago. I enjoyed the Avengers (secret, mighty, new, etc etc etc) , but soon became annoyed with the money grabbing tactics of having to read multiple comics just to understand the full story.

[Spaceghost]

Okay. I'm always doing this kind of thing. I go through long inner rationalisations with myself about various things and often end up feeling very strongly one way or another. I've been feeling increasingly angry and hostile towards the superhero genre for a while due to the reasons I've stated.

In an attempt to diffuse any potential bad feeling I'll address the points you make.

When has entertainment being designed for children meant it can't be enjoyed by adults. What utter rot and damned foolishness. There are countless examples of great children's entertainment enjoyed by adults across a host of media and comics are no different. So that's a none starter.

Yes, you're right of course. I can sit and watch Toy Story with my kids and enjoy it just as much as they do. I suppose in the case of superhero comics, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a grown man (or woman) spending substantial sums of money in order to wallow in these simplistic, juvenile, inconsequential worlds where nothing is ever resolved and nothing ever learned.

Well yes and they also fly. But hey did you know there is no such things as dragons and such like, or more pertinently here for example 2000ad is full of stories that are utter fantasy. That does make them bad stories.

No. I stand by my original statement here. There are so many regular comics based around the central conceit of an individual with power taking the mind-blowingly stupid decision to run around in tights thumping people as a serious attempt to cut crime. It is ridiculous.

There's nothing wrong with fantasy, I've been reading 2000 AD most of my life so I'm well conversant in fantastic fiction. It's just such a boring, over-stretched, tired story that's been told too many times already.

Well yes that's hard to deny. It is however true of any almost any form of entertainment run as a business. People (at the business end) try to make a product that they can sell to people that people want to buy. It might not be nice it might not be pretty but don't kid yourself.

That's just it. It's all about money. I know all entertainment is created with the purpose of making money but I like to think that comics such as 2000 AD treat their audience with more respect than your average Marvel or DC title.

You could say the same about music, films, books, anything. It's all created to make money but I would venture to say that there are some who respect their audience and manage to retain some artistic credibilty, and others which are churned out by a gigantic machine stinking of filthy lucre. To me, most superhero comics fit into the latter category.

How very arrogant to be embarrassed on someone else's behalf for reading a comic. I read comics all the time in public, be they superhero or otherwise and trust me I don't want your pity or anything thank you. If you can't cope with someone engaging with a form of entertainment you don't get on with and get a little squirmy when you see in public don't say that's on someone else's behalf except that its your issue.

This is one of those times when I should have just shut up. I can't help it. If I see an adult on the train reading a superhero comic, I can't help but liken it to seeing someone thoroughly enjoying an episode of Big Brother or reading a Mills and Boon novel.

"Grow up and expand your tastes instead of accepting whatever shit the mainstream decides to shovel into your brain." is the sentence which automatically scrolls across my brain. I'm sure if I got talking to that person, we'd get on with each other. It's a knee jerk reaction.

I realise, also, that I sound like a horrible snob and that there are plenty of people who would see me reading The Nao of Brown on the train and make the same judgment.

What all of them, you can see no exceptions to this? Your choice of course but there is a great deal of different comics out there even from the big two and such sweeping statements, be they short hand or otherwise are a bit daft.

I don't know if they 'all' are as I don't read any of them any more. From what I pick up from comic news sites, discussions on this forum etc, they all seem to follow the same basic formula and I haven't got time to wade through shit to find a diamond.

Also, when I've tried to read superhero comics which are critically acclaimed or rated highly by fans, I usually find it disappointing. I tried a Spider-Man story (about all Spider-Man's enemies being animal spirits) by Dwayne Swierzinski (sp?) which was touted as a masterpiece of some kind and I found it trite, poorly written and dull.

So the superhero tropes you don't like in comics are fine in cinema then? Why the distinction between one medium or another?

I like the films precisely because they avoid the particular tropes which I've discussed. They have a beginning, middle and end, there is character progression, they don't suffer from having to fit into any continuity.

They are a pocket version of the stories they are inspired by. They are a concentrated version of what made superheroes an interesting and exciting idea when they were originally concieved.

Errr so again you seem to accept that its not about the superheroness (its a word) its about... well your personal taste then. Which is fine but it does make a bit of a travesty of some of the other points you attempt make.

No. It's because the manga I mention isn't held in thrall by the laws of the superhero comic. Batman can never end. The Joker can never repent. Alfred can never die. Bruce Wayne can never retire. It will all keep going on, and on in the same inconsequential manner, the characters learning nothing, never changing, never growing, never offering the reader anything but the most shallow and superficial illusion of story progression.

Hope that clarified my stance.

[Prodigal2]

I clambered aboard the 2000AD mother-ship a few years back when my life long passion for the superhero genre died a death. I know a load of folk on here read across a very wide cross section of genres but I am interested in firming up my perceptions of how many folk still dig their spandex and how many attach themselves more exclusively to 2000AD precisely because it offers an alternative?

Mostly entirely 2000 AD and some select indies/alt titles for me: Usagi Yojimbo, almost anything related to Hellboy, Atomic Robo, Saga. Then again, I grew up on British comics—first humour titles and then 2000 AD. That's my comics grounding, not superheroes. When I did get a Spider-Man or a Batman as a kid, it didn't really compare to Judge Dredd, Nemesis and Strontium Dog. Today, I still feel much the same way. I have a very small number of superhero titles, but I've not really read any that wowed me. I did enjoy the Ultimates line for a while, but that rapidly went downhill, with dodgy art and some slothful pacing.

Indigo I recently renewed a friendship with a childhood chum-we both loved all things Brit-Cit comic wise but then I departed for spandex and Americana and our friendship waned as well.

Meeting him for coffee tomorrow. I now regard him as superior in most ways to myself.

[Professor Bear]

When has entertainment being designed for children meant it can't be enjoyed by adults. What utter rot and damned foolishness. There are countless examples of great children's entertainment enjoyed by adults across a host of media and comics are no different. So that's a none starter.

While I agree with the general thrust of this sentiment wholeheartedly - it's hard to imagine that the last few decades of Disney films would have been half as successful had they stripped out all content that might go over the heads of kids, ditto the maturing of the audience and product of the videogame industry - I think comics as an industry - superhero comics especially - are insulated from competing in the open market with other forms of entertainment and thus have become very insular and unfriendly to anyone except people who already read comics.
Marvel tried to break out of this cycle around the start of the millennium and ended up producing accessible, interesting and entertaining comics, but like DC, the company has become a subsidiary of a huge multinational corporation that views the actual comics themselves as an unimportant byproduct of keeping intellectual property in play so they can be adapted to games, tv or film, and as a result the books cater to their existing audience and become an increasingly inaccessible cycle of events and crossovers to the point that even #1 issues like Mighty Avengers or the upcoming Ms Marvel are intrinsically linked to ongoing crossovers that stem from events in other crossovers.

I think this isolation helps reinforce some notions about superhero comics that they don't deserve - particularly relative to other genres, as I find the cowboy and gangster genres even more obsessed with the idea of machismo and silly costumes, and just to make things worse, they pretty much make a virtue of their inherent racism, misogyny, and having their own little language and tropes beloved of fans and deconstructionists alike.  My experience of the superhero genre is that it's at least trying to move beyond all those things.