Well when meadering through the world of the internet I stumbled across the fact that that John Smith wrote a little run of Harris' Vampirella comic in the early 2000s? Now Vampirella is a character I know nowt about aside the two obvious points but I love me some John Smith. So the question is has anybody read these and are they worth tracking down?
Any info gratefuly recieved.
There are also Millar and Morrison's Vampirella stories that I haven't read but have been collected a number of times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Morrison_bibliography#Other_US_publishers
From what I recall the Morrison/Millar ones were rather fun with nice art don't think I ever saw the Smith ones I did however pick up two Devlin trades today in a £2 bargain book shop in the Euston rd today total bargain as much as I love Smith I had stopped reading the Prog and Meg while most of them were running and ace Yeowell art on some of it too!
The early Vampirella stories make for really good, old-school horror fun. I've found more recent output (although I can't be sure of the writers involved) to be less impressive.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 03 July, 2010, 06:04:31 PM
Well when meadering through the world of the internet I stumbled across the fact that that John Smith wrote a little run of Harris' Vampirella comic in the early 2000s? Now Vampirella is a character I know nowt about aside the two obvious points but I love me some John Smith. So the question is has anybody read these and are they worth tracking down?
Any info gratefuly recieved.
They're fucking shite. Don't bother.
Quote from: john_s on 03 July, 2010, 11:04:45 PM
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 03 July, 2010, 06:04:31 PM
Well when meadering through the world of the internet I stumbled across the fact that that John Smith wrote a little run of Harris' Vampirella comic in the early 2000s? Now Vampirella is a character I know nowt about aside the two obvious points but I love me some John Smith. So the question is has anybody read these and are they worth tracking down?
Any info gratefuly recieved.
They're fucking shite. Don't bother.
Well there is your answer Colin. ;)
Arh now you see that could but just modesty? Couldn't it...!
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 04 July, 2010, 08:41:26 AM
Arh now you see that could but just modesty? Couldn't it...!
Or he is trying to buy up all the issues on eBay so he can sell them on at great profit later ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Console yourself, John, that you wrote one of the bext issues of Hellblazer there has ever been. The one in the laundrette.
Brrr...
- Trout
I've got loads of copies. You can have some, if you want. The artwork is... well, quite pretty in a photorealistic way. The story's a dog's dinner. Worst experience I've ever had on a comic (except maybe for "Scarab"). Apart from the fact that Vampirella is an inherently stupid and one-dimensional character, it was written before/immediately after 9/11 for a mediocre craven New York-based company that forced me to pull all its teeth out. My pitch was: Vampirella as Andrea Dworkin/Valerie Solanis/S.C.U.M. manifesto (Society for Cutting Up Men). Make her every heterosexual males' worst fucking nightmare. (Have you *seen* the readership of that comic? It's 100% the dirty mac brigade.) Vagina dentata in high heels. Etc. Instead, I was forced to write a toothless parody that sucked big time - pun intended.
One example: I had a supporting character called Harry Krishna who wore a turban. My editor: "God, no! We can't do that! Those filthy murderous Arabs wear turbans!"
And believe me, that's a relatively MINOR example of the sort of censorious bullshit and constant rewriting I had to put up with every day. The pay was good but it really wasn't worth the hassle. It was soul-destroying hackwork and I feel embarrassed to ever have been associated with it...
Does that make it any clearer?
I quite liked Scarab.
Quote from: King Trout on 04 July, 2010, 05:12:00 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Console yourself, John, that you wrote one of the bext issues of Hellblazer there has ever been. The one in the laundrette.
Brrr...
- Trout
Thanks! You're not the only one, apparently:
http://mindlessones.com/2008/04/06/dee-do-dough-don%E2%80%99t-dee-dough-or-why-hellblazer-51-is-the-title%E2%80%99s-best-issue/
I really should have a shot at that comic again. I've got some great ideas for it!
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 06:36:35 PM
I really should have a shot at that comic again. I've got some great ideas for it!
Some of have been saying this for quite some time. See if you can rescue Sean Phillips from the desk he's chained to in Ed Brubaker's cellar while you're at it. :-)
Failing that, how about a bit of Peter Doherty?
Cheers!
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 04 July, 2010, 07:11:22 PM
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 06:36:35 PM
I really should have a shot at that comic again. I've got some great ideas for it!
Some of have been saying this for quite some time. See if you can rescue Sean Phillips from the desk he's chained to in Ed Brubaker's cellar while you're at it. :-)
Failing that, how about a bit of Peter Doherty?
Cheers!
Jim
Yeah - Pete would be ace on "Hellblazer"! He can draw brilliant monsters and he does scruffy and squalid really well! ;-)
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 05:20:02 PM
Does that make it any clearer?
Yep!
Well its certainly good to get it from the horses mouth before I spent a load of time trying to track them down. Thanks for the (brutal) honesty.
I'll just echo what others have said, and indeed I've said myself here before love to see you have a run at Hellblazer. Fingers crossed.
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 07:14:11 PM
Yeah - Pete would be ace on "Hellblazer"! He can draw brilliant monsters and he does scruffy and squalid really well! ;-)
Plus, one of Peter's real strengths is being able to draw characters looking natural when they're
not doing very much. In fact, there are very few artists who can capture the body language of normal people doing normal things as well as Peter can. I think he'd be a brilliant fit for the book.
Cheers!
Jim
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 06:36:35 PMI really should have a shot at that comic again. I've got some great ideas for it!
Definitely - not sure why they never gave you a run on the title, or at the very least occasional guest slots where you punch Constantine in the back of the head and drag him through the gutters. It often feels very formulaic (not everything has to be set in London and/or include a storyline that includes a con or murdering a friend) and it feels like it could do with a shake-up from every now and again.
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 05:20:02 PM
Apart from the fact that Vampirella is an inherently stupid and one-dimensional character...
I think that might be part of the charm of the older Vampirella comics, and something that just doesn't translate well into latter day comics. She works best when she's an old-school horror diva, just as characters like James Bond and Indiana Jones work best when they're archaic chauvanists from days gone by. To try and 'update' characters like that may be pointless. Perhaps, then, one's energies as a writer would be best spent creating new characters that represent
this time and place.
Of course, I'm saying all of this as an avid Dredd and Anderson fan. However, both Dredd and Anderson have been allowed to age and evolve very naturally as characters. And we know that, as readers, meaning we are more willing to embrace the 'middle age spread' of their stories into more contemporary themes.
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 07:14:11 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 04 July, 2010, 07:11:22 PM
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 06:36:35 PM
I really should have a shot at that comic again. I've got some great ideas for it!
Some of have been saying this for quite some time. See if you can rescue Sean Phillips from the desk he's chained to in Ed Brubaker's cellar while you're at it. :-)
Failing that, how about a bit of Peter Doherty?
Cheers!
Jim
Yeah - Pete would be ace on "Hellblazer"! He can draw brilliant monsters and he does scruffy and squalid really well! ;-)
(http://whatitslikeontheinside.com/uploaded_images/Make-It-So-776665.jpg)
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 04 July, 2010, 07:19:12 PM
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 07:14:11 PM
Yeah - Pete would be ace on "Hellblazer"! He can draw brilliant monsters and he does scruffy and squalid really well! ;-)
Plus, one of Peter's real strengths is being able to draw characters looking natural when they're not doing very much. In fact, there are very few artists who can capture the body language of normal people doing normal things as well as Peter can. I think he'd be a brilliant fit for the book.
Cheers!
Jim
Oh, absolutely, Jim! I didn't mean to denigrate his other skills! He has this knack of making the characters really come alive on the page, and avoids all the cliches of ultra-handsome or big-busted stereotypes that populate most comics. Plus, his storytelling is brilliant... And I know it's something he works very hard at...
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 09:23:05 PM
And I know it's something he works very hard at...
I honestly believe that Peter is the most under-rated comic artist of his generation. I can't think of another one of his contemporaries who has been so consistently excellent and yet never managed to snag a regular gig with a US publisher.
I mean, I know, he's an excellent colourist (and a pretty tidy letterer if memory serves) and I'm pretty sure he's kept busy over the years, but ... I dunno, there's a title somewhere that he could really shine on.
Oh, and he's a bloody nice chap, too.
Cheers!
Jim
Quote
I really should have a shot at that comic again. I've got some great ideas for it!
Fucking do it, man! That truly was a great one-off. For once, most of the supernatural shit happens without John C even knowing it. Bleeding scary too, which something that comics try but don't often manage (though Grant Morrison's Hellblazer was quite a pant-shitter too, it must be said).
Another John Smith story or two might keep me from cancelling Hellblazer. I like Pete Miligan's writing but recent issues don't seem to have gone anywhere. It's all disturbing doom and gloom but no direction.
- Trout
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 July, 2010, 10:03:04 PM
Quote
I really should have a shot at that comic again. I've got some great ideas for it!
Fucking do it, man! That truly was a great one-off. For once, most of the supernatural shit happens without John C even knowing it. Bleeding scary too, which something that comics try but don't often manage (though Grant Morrison's Hellblazer was quite a pant-shitter too, it must be said).
Yeah, right. If ony it were that easy...
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 10:46:30 PM
Yeah, right. If ony it were that easy...
Heh. You know what I said about Peter? Swap the word "writer" for "artist" and your name for his.
Cheers!
Jim
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 July, 2010, 10:03:04 PM
Quote
I really should have a shot at that comic again. I've got some great ideas for it!
Fucking do it, man! That truly was a great one-off. For once, most of the supernatural shit happens without John C even knowing it. Bleeding scary too, which something that comics try but don't often manage (though Grant Morrison's Hellblazer was quite a pant-shitter too, it must be said).
Yeah, right. If ony it were that easy...
Call me optimistic (or stupid) but if there was a collected Cradlegrave and someone managed to get it to Hellblazer's editor, it might be. I miss the days when Constantine was dangerous and the comic felt like the writer was taking it personally.
Love your work John S. When you coming back to blow our minds again?
Quote from: Ignatzmonster on 05 July, 2010, 12:17:23 AMCall me optimistic (or stupid) but if there was a collected Cradlegrave
It seems this is unlikely to happen. Keith has said there isn't enough to collect and John says that is it.
Quote from: Ignatzmonster on 05 July, 2010, 12:17:23 AMWhen you coming back to blow our minds again?
See the forthcoming thrills page (http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,27716.0.html) - he has a Strange and Darke (with Colin on art, although he is still on Insurrection at the moment) as well as a one-off Devlin Waugh to be followed by a longer story and Indigo Prime at some point (he is still boxing it off - blame the heat). It is right what they say: John Smith is like buses...
Quote from: Emperor on 05 July, 2010, 12:23:59 AM
John Smith is like buses...
What a really good way to get around and a service that needs to be protected in these times of 'austerity' but since deregulation not as reliable and much more expensive than they used to be?????
From the Hellblazer 51 review:
QuoteSmith, the semi-automatic David Cronenberg of British comics
Heh, that's class!
And enough of this Cradlegrave defeatism. Bundle it with virtually any other Smith self-contained series and stick it in a binding. It's too good to just leave it mouldering in the floppies.
Quote from: TordelBack on 05 July, 2010, 08:41:14 AM
And enough of this Cradlegrave defeatism. Bundle it with virtually any other Smith self-contained series and stick it in a binding. It's too good to just leave it mouldering in the floppies.
Yeah I completely agree with this sentiment. Though I have always been a fan of the idea of having a 2000ad Horror Graphic Novel. Collecting a few of the self contained horror stories that are too short to get their own trade. Either way it needs to get out there.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 05 July, 2010, 09:01:25 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 05 July, 2010, 08:41:14 AM
And enough of this Cradlegrave defeatism. Bundle it with virtually any other Smith self-contained series and stick it in a binding. It's too good to just leave it mouldering in the floppies.
Yeah I completely agree with this sentiment. Though I have always been a fan of the idea of having a 2000ad Horror Graphic Novel. Collecting a few of the self contained horror stories that are too short to get their own trade. Either way it needs to get out there.
Don't think Firekind's been collected yet either. Hint fockin' hint.
QuoteHeh. You know what I said about Peter? Swap the word "writer" for "artist" and your name for his.
Cheers!
Jim
That's a fact - often wondered why they poached Garth Ennis and Mark Millar. Both fine writers when working for the big U.S. companies, but how did they get chosen on the strength of their 2000ad efforts?
Meanwhile John Smith gives us Cradlegrave, Devlin Waugh, Firekind, Killing Time, some well-above-average Dredds and the best Rogue Trooper story there's ever been, Cinnabar.
Still, the yanks' loss is Tharg's gain.
I'd stick Cradlegrave and Killing Time in one book -- if that doesn't show John's range, I don't know what would!
Cheers
Jim
I'd buy the shite out of that.
Quote from: john_s on 04 July, 2010, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 July, 2010, 10:03:04 PM
Quote
I really should have a shot at that comic again. I've got some great ideas for it!
Fucking do it, man! That truly was a great one-off. For once, most of the supernatural shit happens without John C even knowing it. Bleeding scary too, which something that comics try but don't often manage (though Grant Morrison's Hellblazer was quite a pant-shitter too, it must be said).
Yeah, right. If ony it were that easy...
How about turning that tissue compressor of yours on Tony Lee & giving us some Doctor Who instead John?
Quote from: O Lucky Stevie! on 07 July, 2010, 06:04:31 AM
How about turning that tissue compressor of yours on Tony Lee & giving us some Doctor Who instead John?
Oh now that would give me a nerdgasm.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 07 July, 2010, 07:43:43 AM
Quote from: O Lucky Stevie! on 07 July, 2010, 06:04:31 AM
How about turning that tissue compressor of yours on Tony Lee & giving us some Doctor Who instead John?
Oh now that would give me a nerdgasm.
Seconded- I order you to do this, Mr Smith.
Well I love "Doctor Who" with a passion - it's what got me writing in the first place and I very nearly had a script accepted by Andrew Cartmel in the very month they'd heard the (old McCoy) series was cancelled - so that'd be cool as fuck...
Watch out, Tony! I'm gunning for ya! ;-)
Quote from: Emperor on 05 July, 2010, 12:23:59 AM
Quote from: Ignatzmonster on 05 July, 2010, 12:17:23 AMCall me optimistic (or stupid) but if there was a collected Cradlegrave
It seems this is unlikely to happen. Keith has said there isn't enough to collect and John says that is it.
More specifically he asked how you could continue the story and I pondered the problem for a moment, summoned my mastery of the English language and replied "dunno" (oh my mother would be proud, all her years of teaching English at a top school clearly rubbed off there). So I thought I'd pick up the challenge and do a bit of brainstorming (as I've done for story ideas in Zarjaz, as folks will see over the next fear years) and came up with a few ideas, the one I like the best breaks down into two parts:
- Its a year after Shane has left the estate, he is living on his on in a council flat in a tower block where he is the outsider shunned by the residents. It is another hot, oppressive summer and Shane has been smoking weed solidly to try and block out the memories. He starts to see signs that suggest to him similar events are unfolding here (kids with marks on their face, unexplained outbreaks of violence) - something is growing up through the skin of the world, like mushrooms pushing their way through tarmac (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/7699964.stm), and it is forcing its way through here at the margins (playing on the general urban fantasy idea that reality gets a little thin at the edges where people aren't paying as much attention). Now I do quite like the idea of him beating someone's head in with a brick and it turning out he was wrong but "chav gets stoned and murders some innocent victim" isn't quite a story for 2000AD ;) Instead he discovers that it is a very similar creature just further along in its life cycle making him realise he has left loose threads hanging and his mother is in danger.
- As we saw in the last instalment the offspring of the creature are still around on the estate and Shane's family and friends (and everyone) are in trouble (which seems to be the thread left hanging from Cradlegrave that could have a new story tied onto it). So he has to return and fix the problem. Then when that is done he realises there are going to be more things like this out there so he either leaves the estate but this time with a purpose, or he stays and starts collecting newspaper clippings of bizarre outbreaks of ultraviolence with an eye to seeing if there are any hotspots of activity (like a latter-day, low-rent, Fort, just with a focused mission).
Other ideas include Shane stumbling across some other monstrosity (but this seemed too coincidental) or him being tracked down and recruited by some group (private individuals or possibly some shadowy wing of the government) who are seeking out people who have seen the things he has in order to stop future threats (this looses the feel of the original story, it is almost like what you'd get with a US TV adaptation, although it could be handled more... sensibly ;) ) or you could see something similar bubbling up on another estate just further down the line so you get a bit more of an idea of what is going on, while not being too explicit (I didn't like this approach as it seems to throw away a lot of the characters and story from the original, starting almost from scratch).
So lots of ways a sequel could go just from a quick ponder on the problem - some intriguing, some pretty poor (although that is the point of throwing out ideas, as long as they aren't all crap) but plenty of potential for a slow-burning story and lots of unpleasantness - the winning formula from the first one. Plus it moves the story along without having to reveal everything (as I think the mysterious edge adds a lot - we have no ideas what it is or what it wants, if anything, and that just makes it worse).
Quote from: john_s on 07 July, 2010, 04:45:22 PM
Well I love "Doctor Who" with a passion - it's what got me writing in the first place and I very nearly had a script accepted by Andrew Cartmel in the very month they'd heard the (old McCoy) series was cancelled - so that'd be cool as fuck...
Watch out, Tony! I'm gunning for ya! ;-)
So like given that I'm unlikely to make it too the chat room tonight (World Cup semi's and 1 year old kinda do for me there) I'm wondering if someone could badger John to find out what the idea was today and then report back... well if the idea still isn't viable?
I'd do it here but I've spent far too much time on this place looking silly!
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 07 July, 2010, 06:22:52 PM
Quote from: john_s on 07 July, 2010, 04:45:22 PM
Well I love "Doctor Who" with a passion - it's what got me writing in the first place and I very nearly had a script accepted by Andrew Cartmel in the very month they'd heard the (old McCoy) series was cancelled - so that'd be cool as fuck...
Watch out, Tony! I'm gunning for ya! ;-)
So like given that I'm unlikely to make it too the chat room tonight (World Cup semi's and 1 year old kinda do for me there) I'm wondering if someone could badger John to find out what the idea was today and then report back... well if the idea still isn't viable?
I'd do it here but I've spent far too much time on this place looking silly!
Will do, although I imagine he'd want to play that close to his chest.
Also while I'd love to see John Smith write for Torchwood (the TV show or comic) - it is darker in tone and pretty much broken (apart from Children of Earth), despite having a cracking underlying concept - so it is wide open to some bonkers, out-there stories.
Your a star. Cheers.
As I say of course if its still an idea he could use he has ever right to tell us to go away but hey can't win the lottery if ya don't buy a ticket and all that.
You were on at the same time as John Smith but didn't ask, so after you went I thought I'd throw the question in for you and saved the answer off:
Quotemighty_emperor: I think he had a question to ask you John about your ideas for Dr Who and if you could give any hints
john_s_2010: Got loads of "Who" ideas? Where to start!
john_s_2010: The TARDIS is obviously a spacetime macro-antibody, for starters...
Soooooo just on the loads of ideas front I'd live to see IDW take a peek at those, perhaps sneak a mini-series in alongside Tony Lee's main run on Doctor Who??
It was all a bit Who as Pat Mills was there (and his ideas for TV episodes went into his DMW stories), plus there was a lot of discussion on Matt Smith (actor) and The Moff.
Yeah he arrived back while I was still playing but I did that thing I do where when famous people I admire loads appear in a social situation I try to treat 'um normally 'cos otherwise I'll come across as a stirring star struck twat... clearly I am a star struck twat but try not to make it too obvious and wait for a moment when such a question seems appropriate... which of course it never does (also see Colin's relationships with women: Starting of).
So since it was near the end of my time I just let it go and went to bed.
Of course as you ably demonstrate just asking a question of someone is perfectly normal and reasonable and so now I just seem like a stirring star struck dumb struck twat... DAMNIT!!!!!
One day I'll share a few stories about me and meeting various music people I admire... I don't come out of it well but at least in those days I had alcohol as an excuse!
You are a better man than me Empire thank you!
Well I've had my fair share of clammy, stuttering fanboy moments - Romero, Harryhausen, etc. (possibly Thesiger too but that was more awe) and I'm sure I'd get another round of tit when meeting the droids in person. However, you've just got to push on through as there is must be a limit on how many times anyone can hear "you are my favourtest writer evah!!" Plus it helps if you are cheeky and nosey, but not too cheeky and nosey. Oh and all but the most taciturn are always happy to talk about the work they are doing now and things that have annoyed them in the past (this side of non-disclosure agreements and legal threats, respectively) so you can never go far wrong with those, start with the former and then work round to the latter when the opportunity arises. ;)
Quote from: Emperor on 08 July, 2010, 04:14:46 PM
"you are my favourtest writer evah!!"
Arh so you were there when I met Thurston Moore back stage at the Duchess in Leeds (well not writer I can't righty say what specific I blurted out... I might have just told him I loved him actually?)
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 08 July, 2010, 04:21:12 PM
Quote from: Emperor on 08 July, 2010, 04:14:46 PM
"you are my favourtest writer evah!!"
Arh so you were there when I met Thurston Moore back stage at the Duchess in Leeds (well not writer I can't righty say what specific I blurted out... I might have just told him I loved him actually?)
I think it is an almost direct quote from Roger the week before ;) Probably for the best as the alternative would have been telling him (and everyone else) about the poo he jut had.
You know how most stories in "2000AD" are named after the main character?
That's "Cradlegrave", that is...
Re. chat night - I had a blast! (And woke up with a stonking hangover too!) It is a bit hard to follow the conversation(s) sometimes but I'd recommend anyone to pop in.
Also, I was away for a while and missed some stuff - Pat on his "Doctor Who" comics, etc. - and didn't save a transcript (or whatever it's called). Could someone send me one?
Thanks in advance if you can!
Quote from: john_s on 08 July, 2010, 06:10:16 PM
You know how most stories in "2000AD" are named after the main character?
That's "Cradlegrave", that is...
Sooo that was the name of the monster or the estate was the main character?
Quote from: john_s on 08 July, 2010, 06:10:16 PMAlso, I was away for a while and missed some stuff - Pat on his "Doctor Who" comics, etc. - and didn't save a transcript (or whatever it's called). Could someone send me one?
Thanks in advance if you can!
I'm not sure if Pat said much about his Dr Who work (I was thinking about asking if he'd fancy a run at writing another Dr Who episode or if he'd been put off my the previous experience, but he left before I could) but the stuff on ownership (2000AD and, perhaps more importantly, Crisis) was very interesting.
I don't have a transcript, just bits to remind me to post here. Sharky might have a transcript - I wouldn't be surprised if he keeps a copy for blackmail or idea-stealing purposes ;)
Quote
Sooo that was the name of the monster or the estate was the main character?
I'm guessing both are correct.
Quote from: Emperor on 08 July, 2010, 02:22:18 PM
You were on at the same time as John Smith but didn't ask, so after you went I thought I'd throw the question in for you and saved the answer off:
Quotemighty_emperor: I think he had a question to ask you John about your ideas for Dr Who and if you could give any hints
john_s_2010: Got loads of "Who" ideas? Where to start!
john_s_2010: The TARDIS is obviously a spacetime macro-antibody, for starters...
Katy Manning's visible panty line! That's pristine
gold-plated gold there John.
Surely Paul Corne or Neil Gaiman could put in a good word for you with the Moff ;) ;) ;)
I wish!
(And that's only the most obvious idea - in fact, more of an observation, really!)