T3 Rise of the machines

[Mudcrab]

Phew, just back from some extensive research into this Mostow guy. Well, when I say extensive, I mean looking up your previous posts, La Mer.

Yep, I can certainly understand your reasoning there. They should have been a disclaimer shown at the start of the film stating how american troops would never have had anything near the intelligence or organisation to accomplish anything but show up in large numbers and that it was actually British forces that carried out that operation, against an enemy and government originally funded and supported by america and american banks in the first place. Isn't history mad and contradictory at times? But of course we're all so glad that they stepped in and saved us all once they realised they were backing the wrong side. Where would America be now if they hadn't joined in? Had to stake their claim in the centre of Europe at the end of WW2 for their future NWO plans to work.

Oops, bit of a digression there :o)

[Mangamax]

Valid points there S.D and i agree totally. Its the fact that folk can't be arsed to check before coming as to whether a film is suitable or use the very tired cliche now of "he's seen worse at home" that gets the back up of everyone working in the cinema.
I don't know who to most sorry for - the little kiddie asking mummy "what does "fuck you, you fucking..." mean?" in T.3 or the folk in Hulk who just want to watch the film without a load of under tens climbing the walls during the character development bits cause they're bored shitless.
So, letter of complaint goes off to the BBFC tomorrow

[La Mer]

sorry if i seem a bit passiontate about this, but colin grazier, one of the sailors who lost their lives retrieving the enigma machines, was a good friend of my grandfathers and paid the highest price to secure saftey for thousands of troops.
FYI - they did put a disclaimer on the film - after the end credits - by which time everyone has left the cinema or turned the video off - guess that didnt mean that much to hm did it?

[Mudcrab]

"sorry if i seem a bit passiontate about this"

Not at all, you've every right to be. Disclaimer aside, there's a generation of kids that'll (falsely) remember that film as being fact, as we no doubt remember WW2 through the eyes of Where Eagles Dare, Bridge over the River Kwai etc etc. Saying that, we all have (or had) parents/grandparents who lived through it all, but it won't be long till that won't be the case (may it be as long as possible though).

I mean, does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?

:o)

[SmallBlueThing]

Just come back from T3 and have to say that it exceeded all my expectations. Really jolly good. I'm no fan of T2, and certainly not an admirer of James Cameron (The Abyss was pants, Aliens was dreadful and Titanic was just about watchable. Though I did like The Terminator and Pirahna2, heh.) so it was nice to see almost the same story told properly this time. Lots of big bangs, fantastic stunts and set-peices, some less-than-heterosexual jokery, Elton John references, monsters from Sylvester McCoy's 'Paradise Towers' Dr Who story and a 'Planet of the Apes' ending. Marvellous. Glad to see the back of Cameron, though queasy about Mostow for reasons others have stated elsewhere on this board. He did a top job with this though, and I eagrely await T4.

And, after all the excitement further up the thread, and the 'Carry On Terminating' first half hour, I became convinced the music at the end, that has been mentioned, was going to be by The Cheeky Girls. Sadly I was let down. But that would have made it utterly perfect.

Just a shame the TX wasn't in the image of Sarah Connor. That may have given it the edge it needed to win over the Cameron-apologists, but alas no. I fully expect many posts along the lines of 'It's an abomination'. But anyway, I didn't miss big JC's 'mechsturbation' one little bit, and it was nice to see a terminator movie where the people mattered for a change. if only for a little while before the next big bang.

Steev

[SmallBlueThing]

SPOILERS
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There, that should be enough. Now then- after T3 I couldn't help but pop over to my favourite internet movie-review site, www.capalert.com, and see what they thought of it. I shall paste a bit here for your entertainment.

(Review begins)

This is an R-rated film in every sense, mom/dad. Including a number of views of full male and female nudity with lesser shots of rear male and female nudity [**] plus much use of potty mouth language [Titus 2:6-8]. If passed through a curse filter and finger on the stop button to avoid the nudity, Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines would be much less invasive. The foul language is freckled throughout the show about every 2.5 minutes but the nudity appears only a short time after each of the two times that the time traveling terminators appear. Each is announced by a flashing electric arcing display in spherical pattern. Shutting the tape player off, forwarding the tape about five tape minutes before restarting it for each of the two times the terminators enter the show should prevent exposure to the nudity. But avoiding exposure to the foul language would not be possible without a curse filter.

Violence was intense [Prov. 3:31-32]. And nearly nonstop. A road chase sequence involving nearly everything that rolls, including the world's largest mobile crane, rivals any ever produced including that in The Matrix Reloaded. Property damage was immense. When the T-X Terminator became Kate's dead boyfriend and offered to help the police find Kate, the Terminatrix shoved her arm through the driver's seat back and through the driver's chest, then flexed her fingers dripping with blood. And, of course, the new T-101 Terminator (still Arnold Schwarzenegger) does self surgery to get to his inner workings ... again. This time instead of stripping the flesh off his left forearm, he cuts open his abdomen to retrieve a failing power cell.

Language is as intense. [Col. 3:8, Prov. 22:11] Including the three/four letter word vocabulary, the most foul of the foul words AND God's name in vain with AND without the four letter expletive [Deut. 5:11]. With a language density of about 2.5 uses per minute, there is no way the invasive language could be avoided without a curse filter.

(review ends)

However, as wonderful as this may be, I'm still laughing my heathen arse off at this portion of their review of HULK.

"Sexually The Hulk is immoral for a couple minutes due to Eric Bana displaying rear nudity [**]. Fortunately, that is all the sexual programming I noted in the entire show. Unless I missed it (which has happened before while taking a restroom break), no one becomes obviously sexually involved with anybody which is quite atypical of today's PG-13. There are not even innuendo or suggestive eye movements, just the brief full rear male nudity which is bad enough. Talbot looks at the floor near Betty once but that is not suggestive. Regarding Bana's nudity, those who may choose to watch this film note that after the Hulk fights the demonized dogs at Betty Ross's place in the country, when he changes back to Banner at the edge of the pond, look away for about two minutes and that should avoid sight of the nudity. Since that is the only time the Hulk/Banner is nude after a few times of changing to and from the Hulk, it is glaringly obvious that this piece was put there just to get a little skin sin in the show."

capalert.com. You just can't beat it.

Steev

[The Monarch]

So what was the music at the end? Go on tell me, please.

spoiler

A brand new version of the main theme of the terminator after months of hearing it wasn't going to be in the film it shows up after the ending of the film!!!

[Leigh S]

I don't see it as coincidence factor - it's that whole "time trying to right itself when meddled with" thing isn't it? Certainly no more coincidenty than any other film of this nature, with the time travel get-out clause.  Cameron is an arse - over rated in so many ways. Aliens is an OK film that just about fails to ruin the original, while T2 was a huge load of bollocks. Titanic is unwatchable (well it would be if not for the lovely Kate).  Anyone who enjoyed the first movie, but felt the second one was a bit too hollywood needs to see this one.

As for it being a 12a - that is nothing short of a disgrace - When I was a young un, the level of violence and naughty wordiness would have been all too much.  Either the censors are wrong, or we have bred a race of killer children - either way, i'm scared....

[Tex Hex]

As a fan of the first two terminator movies I was extremely dissapointed with this. The spirit was gone, replaced by lame hollywood jokes. Someone else got it right when they said Carry on Cyborg. The most frustrating thing was that at its core I believe there was a good story trying to escape. But the execution was littered with plot holes the halfway smart movie goer would pick up on. Arnies explaining why judgement day still happened? If hes from one possible outcome, how does he know about other possible outcomes? What is this thermonuclear power cell he used to blow shit up? Why didnt he use this to blast the T1000 or indeed sarah connor in the first movie? Aaah! And the whole movie felt more like one chase scene without any of the stunning set pieces of T2. And the music was pish. And arnie says "talk to the hand".

One a (slightly) more positive note....
Nick Stahl and Claire Danes (my how shes grown..) were both good and were spared any of the lame humour. The termanatrix, while not exactly more threatening than the T1000 did act like a robot. And the ending is one that I would keep even if the rest of the movie was revamped.

Anyone who liked this, kiddies aside, is suffering form "Lucas syndrome", where the absolute worst things you could do to a movie suddenly become the most attractive...:o)

Watcher, are you suggesting that this movie is "less hollywood" than T2!? Were you watching the Hulk by mistake!? :o)

Bah! humbug!

Terminator 4 should be about movie fans sending one back to before this movie to kill Jonathan Mostow.

[opaque]

I saw it last night and I was happy with it but yes it had loads of plot holes.
But then also plot holes about the idea of the resistance, if they know roughly where they are (as shown in the previous film with the early terminators infiltrating their base) why not just nuke it????? Same thing in T3, if they know where the future resistance are going to be why not just carry a nuke across the divide and take out the whole area? And from what we know by the end of the film taking out that towns not going to affect their plans.

[Leigh S]

Terminator 2 is all about making Arnie lovable - it's a cop out at all levels with much bigger plot holes than T3 IMO, and certainly more belittling humour and "hollywoodization" - Arnie is a walking joke in T2.

The robot in T3 would know about the averted past because they have access to time travel technology and/or they picked up the knowledge from the future John Connor - You're just looking for plot holes where there aren't any (well, any bigger ones than the previous Terminator films - if you want a list....:))!

The events of T1 and 2 still happened, so it's not like they had been erased from the time stream - He didn't use the thermo nuclear power cell in the first two movies, because the T3 here is a different version from an alternate future! Simple!  

[Tex Hex]

When John Connor is talking to arnie near the start about remembering him , why dosnt connor himself remember that he lowered him into molten steel ?

[Leigh S]

Because he's spaced out on dog neutering tablets and more than a little shook up...?

[Tex Hex]

Ahh, but were they really dog neutering tablets or did Claire Danes character make that up to distract him?

Pah! Youre argument is in pieces now! :o)

[SmallBlueThing]

And... was it just me, or did the stuff at the vets take place in the middle of the night? Then the TX attacks, still night. Then it chases them out on the highway in the truck- and bang! Daylight!

Did this happen?

But I still liked it better than T2- which was, ahem, piss on a stick.

Steev