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Author Topic: What The Flux?  (Read 3579 times)

Dandontdare

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #60 on: 06 December, 2021, 07:36:28 PM »
PJ nailed it - Chibnall does come up with some excellent ideas, he just needs someone with a firm hand to tell him to calm the fuck down, pick one and refine it, rather than spaffing multiple poorly-developed plot strands everywhere.

Thought the last episode was a confusing, disjointed and unsatisfying mess. At last by stashing that watch, Whittaker's final specials won't be just more division guff.

GordonR

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #61 on: 06 December, 2021, 08:32:39 PM »
I didn't bother to watch it this week, after the crappy episode last week.

They might as well just cancel this series now, it's run its course.

“Hello, BBC? Yeah, can you cancel Doctor Who? A bloke on the internet says he can’t be bothered watching anymore.”

IndigoPrime

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #62 on: 06 December, 2021, 09:11:49 PM »
PJ nailed it - Chibnall does come up with some excellent ideas, he just needs someone with a firm hand to tell him to calm the fuck down, pick one and refine it, rather than spaffing multiple poorly-developed plot strands everywhere.
Doctor Who, like a lot of modern TV, remains in desperate need of a script editor with real power. Not an all-powerful showrunner, but someone who can do “no, do it again” or someone authorised to take these Billy Half a Scripts and have them make sense. RTD’s run had similar problems, as did Moffat’s, but this was such a mess that for all its moments and characters it just felt so nothingy. I shouldn’t be here, at the end of the sixth episode, not having given a shit about any of that series. Mind you, we’re at the end of JW’s run and her Doctor is barely beyond a cypher. What a colossal waste.

Still, episode 4 was pretty good, I guess.

IndigoPrime

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #63 on: 06 December, 2021, 10:34:08 PM »
Thinking about it, doesn’t The Doctor commit genocide by placing the Sontarans in the way of The Flux? Perhaps that’s her thing: the murder Doctor. Not the first time during this run she’s racked up the body count in a way that’s quite eyebrow raising.

Richard

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #64 on: 06 December, 2021, 11:23:30 PM »
I didn't bother to watch it this week, after the crappy episode last week.

They might as well just cancel this series now, it's run its course.

“Hello, BBC? Yeah, can you cancel Doctor Who? A bloke on the internet says he can’t be bothered watching anymore.”

Imagine having the audacity to voice my opinion on the internet! I'll just throw my iPhone in the bin.

wedgeski

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #65 on: 07 December, 2021, 09:05:18 AM »
PJ nailed it - Chibnall does come up with some excellent ideas, he just needs someone with a firm hand to tell him to calm the fuck down, pick one and refine it, rather than spaffing multiple poorly-developed plot strands everywhere.
Doctor Who, like a lot of modern TV, remains in desperate need of a script editor with real power. Not an all-powerful showrunner, but someone who can do “no, do it again” or someone authorised to take these Billy Half a Scripts and have them make sense. RTD’s run had similar problems, as did Moffat’s, but this was such a mess that for all its moments and characters it just felt so nothingy. I shouldn’t be here, at the end of the sixth episode, not having given a shit about any of that series. Mind you, we’re at the end of JW’s run and her Doctor is barely beyond a cypher. What a colossal waste.
We should also consider the possibility that Chibnall didn't enjoy the time or freedom given to his predecessors, or that the COVID situation squeezed script development into an untenable window. However, if that was the case, he should be writing on the small scale, not attempting canon-redefining arcs, so either way, he done bad.

IndigoPrime

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #66 on: 07 December, 2021, 09:17:11 AM »
He has no excuse. COVID doesn’t mean writing needs to turn to shit and be incomprehensible. COVID isn’t the reason we still have little idea what this Doctor stands for, besides being a bit more murdery than I imagine any long-term fan is comfortable with.

Some elements of what he did were interesting. I’m all-in on the gender switch. JW could have been great (and tried her best). A shift in emphasis towards some educational settings was good. The eradication of Moffat’s obsession with women as puzzles was desperately overdue. But that last series was—with the exception of the episode Chibnall didn’t write alone—ranged from bloody awful to barely OK.

I’m going to miss Whittaker and deeply miss Segun Akinola. (I can’t imagine RTD will be able to resist returning to Murray Gold-style OTT bombast with the theme tune and dialogue-drowning incidental music.) But I’m not going to miss Chibnall at all. I just hope RTD doesn’t say his run was brilliant and commission him to write a load of whatever’s coming next.

Richmond Clements

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #67 on: 07 December, 2021, 09:30:26 AM »
I think a showrunner can work - if you have a writer's room. Things like Breaking Bad or the Sopranos worked because they had many writers working on various episodes. Those writers would then feed back on everyone else's scripts with the showrunner steering the direction of the show.
What we had on Who these past seasons was Chibnall writing the majority of the episodes with what feels like nobody there to tell him what was a good or bad idea.

GordonR

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #68 on: 07 December, 2021, 09:31:54 AM »
I didn't bother to watch it this week, after the crappy episode last week.

They might as well just cancel this series now, it's run its course.

“Hello, BBC? Yeah, can you cancel Doctor Who? A bloke on the internet says he can’t be bothered watching anymore.”

Imagine having the audacity to voice my opinion on the internet! I'll just throw my iPhone in the bin.

No. You said you couldn't be bothered watching anymore, and they should cancel the show. Does that really seem like a reasonable thing to say?

I mean, I thought that finale was utter gibberish - and this is an opinion i can give because I actually watched it - but it wouldn't occur to me to say other people still enjoying it should be denied their enjoyment.

And the BBC clearly don't think its run its course, since they're giving it a whole new incoming lease of life with the return of RTD.

GordonR

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #69 on: 07 December, 2021, 09:34:23 AM »
I think a showrunner can work - if you have a writer's room. Things like Breaking Bad or the Sopranos worked because they had many writers working on various episodes. Those writers would then feed back on everyone else's scripts with the showrunner steering the direction of the show.
What we had on Who these past seasons was Chibnall writing the majority of the episodes with what feels like nobody there to tell him what was a good or bad idea.

I believe union rules hobble the idea of a US-model writers room in UK TV.  Which is why no-one's really yet managed to do it.

IndigoPrime

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #70 on: 07 December, 2021, 10:12:24 AM »
Although isn’t that more or less how children’s TV works? I recall Paul Rose talking about that kind of thing in the past.

Regardless, there’s not really anything stopping shows from reworking the structure of production and infusing teams with editors that have more power. (This isn’t just a problem with British TV, of course; it happens elsewhere. But it’s been an element of Doctor Who since the show returned.)

Dark Jimbo

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #71 on: 07 December, 2021, 12:29:47 PM »
Thinking about it, doesn’t The Doctor commit genocide by placing the Sontarans in the way of The Flux? Perhaps that’s her thing: the murder Doctor. Not the first time during this run she’s racked up the body count in a way that’s quite eyebrow raising.

The Doctor's been at that sort of thing since the 60s.

The First Doctor wipes out an army of 5,000 Daleks in The Dalek's Master Plan. The Second sends a fleet of Ice Warriors into the Sun, actively instigates a civil war on Skaro, wipes out a colony of Macra, and kills umpteen Cybermen over his run. The Tenth is complicit in causing the Pompeii disaster and kills upwards of 7,000 Cybermen in The Age of Steel alone. The Third obliterates a colony of 3000+ Sea Devils, Twelve goes in for yet more Dalek/Cyberman genocide, and likewise Six... And this is all before you get to the War Doctor!

The Legendary Shark

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #72 on: 07 December, 2021, 05:09:47 PM »

Watched all six in a row yesterday afternoon/evening. Enjoyed it, mostly - possibly because I always approach Who as a programme primarily for children and so don't expect too much of it because it will always fall between two stools. I thought it was fun and enjoyed Bishop more than whatsisname (Walsh?) last season. I think JW is a rather good Doctor (apart from the fairly annoying teen-style gurning, which I found strangely annoying), and a significant step up from that Scottish dude - who I felt was a bit naff. Overall, yeah, good stuff.

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Leigh S

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #73 on: 07 December, 2021, 07:38:30 PM »

Not to undermine your enjoyment at all, but I've moved from being frustrated to fascinated by those who say its enjoyable to watch. 

Theres a whole field of psychology I'm sure that you could study as to how peoples buttons are pressed (or not) by story telling. Is it dependent on other character/personality traits ?  Are you more likely to be religious/athiest or left/right or what have you?

For me, if the story makes lttle sense, cotradicts itself and/or doesnt eplain itself, I;m not sure what is actually left to enjoy?  The characters?  But if they are inhabiting an entirely spurious world, then how can they function as characters you would be interested in?  If they are reacting to nonsense, then their reactions are nonsense surely? The effects?  I would genuinely ove to be abl to put myself into the mindset that could enjoy something like this in order to understand it better, because I find it baffling and never had anyone explain what "sustenance" they are getting. 


Watched all six in a row yesterday afternoon/evening. Enjoyed it, mostly - possibly because I always approach Who as a programme primarily for children and so don't expect too much of it because it will always fall between two stools. I thought it was fun and enjoyed Bishop more than whatsisname (Walsh?) last season. I think JW is a rather good Doctor (apart from the fairly annoying teen-style gurning, which I found strangely annoying), and a significant step up from that Scottish dude - who I felt was a bit naff. Overall, yeah, good stuff.

Tiplodocus

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Re: What The Flux?
« Reply #74 on: 07 December, 2021, 07:47:36 PM »
That was utter, utter, utter bollocks.

Whenever a thing needed to do a thing to get them out of trouble, somebody mentioned that the thing did the thing and then the thing did the thing.

So many false cliffhangers. Weeping Angels have taken over the TARDIS?!? Connect these two wires, problem solved.  The Doctor has turned into a Weeping Angel?!? Oh, that's just so we can transport you.

And how many Companion faces were we staring at the end? Was it ten (if you count the other two Doctors)? That's ten more than the number of fucks I had to give by the end of this.

Still, hopefully someone enjoyed it.
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