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A Cardinal Error to Avoid

Started by Proper Dave, 12 January, 2012, 07:48:26 PM

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Proper Dave

This is really just to set something down while i's occurred to me and I remember it. I haven't been avidly following the development of New Dredd, but I can't escape the mentions of gritty-tone and action-sequences, redesigns and whatnot, and thinking this does not bode well.

The core of Dredd was never about those sort of peripheralia, and to treat it as that, as a 'Franchise', is to miss the point. There's a reason, after all, that Ezquerra designed the bloody costumes like they could have been on Franco's police force from the start. And there's a reason why the Stallone Dredd is noted by people who know as the precise point where the blockbuster action-movie bit the big one.

I've long been an apologist for the Stallone Dredd, and how the man rocketed in my estimation when he fought to salvage something from the mess - but case in point about the Mess ...

That sequence, right, where SJS Judges are on hoverbikes and chasing Dredd through the City for an Exciting Action Sequence. Within the basic context of that sequence, those SJS guys were innocents, duped by the Big Bad, and the audience was expected to cheer when they flew into stanchions or whatever and exploded.

The audience didn't cheer. The audience stayed away in droves. The movie lost sight of the flinty heart of basic decency that should have been its centre, and I can only hope New Dredd doesn't do that.
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malkymac

I think the reason that the audience stayed away in droves was because it was a pish movie and there is not really any getting away from that.

I watched it on video with my 10 year old son and he said at the end 'Dad - that was a really bad film'. If 10 year olds are saying that about an action movie then you know there has been a monumental balls up somewhere.

vzzbux

As action flicks go the Stallone Dredd was a good film, but that's all it was, an action film with a bloke in a bad Dredd cosplay.
The reason we hate it is that Dredd was pissed all over then shat on.



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Zarjazzer

I liked many of the designs and the look of MC-1 in that film- that -shall- not- be -named,(codpiece though-nOOOOO!), but it was a Hollywood-ised Dredd er minus most of the best bits of Dredd. 

And Dreddy ain't no hero, he's just an authoritarian with a big gun. Grud bless 'im.

And he does not need sidekick comic relief by that actor- who- shall- not -be -named.
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Roger Godpleton

I remember all those people standing up in the cinema when Hershey kissed Dredd and shouting with anger at the screen. "NO JUDGE DREDD YOU DON'T DESERVE LOVE BECAUSE YOU LET THOSE SJS JUDGES DIE. I AM UPSET BY THIS DEVELOPMENT."
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JOE SOAP

Quote from: Proper Dave on 12 January, 2012, 07:48:26 PMThere's a reason, after all, that Ezquerra designed the bloody costumes like they could have been on Franco's police force from the start.


They still are, and if anything, closer to Ezquerra than the Stallone version.


Quote from: Proper Dave on 12 January, 2012, 07:48:26 PM
I've long been an apologist for the Stallone Dredd, and how the man rocketed in my estimation when he fought to salvage something from the mess


It's partially his fault and his name was the reason the film got put into production, the fact that it was structured like a Stallone film is warning enough. I don't commend him for anything and he pocketed  over $10 million of the $90 million budget. Stallone fought for an end of scene 'kiss' and and an on-set blo-job.

The '95 film is just a bad film full-stop.



The audience didn't cheer. The audience stayed away in droves. The movie lost sight of the flinty heart of basic decency that should have been its centre, and I can only hope New Dredd doesn't do that.


I doubt that was a reason the audience stayed away. The '95 film is just a bad film full-stop, flinty heart or no.

TordelBack

I've said it many times before, but the film was so boring that my then-future-wife actually fell asleep in the cinema (and she's watched Star Trek: The Motion Picture and the extended edition of The Big Blue more than once), and swore off ever reading Judge Dredd again.  I don't think an excess of grittyness came into it.

Or wait, am I confusing that with my last blow-job, also ca. 1995?

I, Cosh

Quote from: vzzbux on 12 January, 2012, 08:27:29 PM
As action flicks go the Stallone Dredd was a good film, but that's all it was, an action film with a bloke in a bad Dredd cosplay.
The reason we hate it is that Dredd was pissed all over then shat on.
Disagree. The reason nobody has a good word for it is because it's not even a good action movie. I've never been a great fan of Stallone anyway but pretty much the only decent action film he's done since 1987 is Demolition Man and even that's primarily down to Wesley Snipes.

When the best thing anyone can find to say about a film is that the production design was nice then you're in trouble.
Quote from: TordelBack on 12 January, 2012, 11:34:57 PM
my then-future-wife ... and she's watched ... the extended edition of The Big Blue more than once
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TordelBack

Quote from: The Cosh on 13 January, 2012, 12:01:54 AM
I'd fuck Jean-Marc Barr

I think it's how long he goes down for that's the appeal.

Fuzzed

Loved Demolition Man - fantastic actors like Snipes, Bullock, Leary all managed to shine. Still don't know what the three shells was supposed to do though.

Back to the point - love me some grit. Bring on the grit. Gritty gritty grit. I definitely don't want some feelgood hero and bright colours or kissy faces - asskicking is where it's at.

The Sherman Kid

There are a number of concerns with the new movie -some of the design work (not the uniform,which  for me  is great),a lot of production shots look very basic, the vehicles awful (Wagners comment that he hoped it had a bit of  a bigger budget I think reflects that) and the very ,shall we say ,subdued PR work to date.

There is also the concern ,as I think the OP suggests that it is concentrating too much on the violent side of Dredd.Given the constant references to 'dark and gritty' and the strong desire for a R rating ,I understand and am also concerned that they may miss the essence of Dredd.Robocop went for ultra-violence and was a completely terrible film (form an orderly queue to disagree).Dredd is not and never has been centred on violoence, more on satire and the idiosycrancies of his world and all the stronger it is for it.I do hope that they aviod this one-dimensional take on Dredd.

Given the sheer strength and depth of those involved in the production process, together with their love for Dredd and their consultative process with John Wagner I am hopeful that this will not transpire, but rather they will use this film as a base introdution to Dredd's world as a platform for sequels to come.

Fingers crossed. :thumbsup:

JOE SOAP

Quote from: The Sherman Kid on 13 January, 2012, 12:57:56 AM
Robocop went for ultra-violence and was a completely terrible film (form an orderly queue to disagree).


Ok, in what way is it terrible?

The Sherman Kid

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 13 January, 2012, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: The Sherman Kid on 13 January, 2012, 12:57:56 AM
Robocop went for ultra-violence and was a completely terrible film (form an orderly queue to disagree).


Ok, in what way is it terrible?

Does 'in every way ' cover it? :thumbsup:

The Sherman Kid

OK then, seriously ,there was absolutely no depth of characterisation in anyone ,clumsy sentimentalism, dour humour, wafer thin plot and completely over-the-top violence.That should cover it.

Misanthrope

Quote from: The Sherman Kid on 13 January, 2012, 01:13:10 AM
OK then, seriously ,there was absolutely no depth of characterisation in anyone ,clumsy sentimentalism, dour humour, wafer thin plot and completely over-the-top violence.That should cover it.

Not the film I remember, but each to his own.
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