2000 AD Online Forum

Good Morning Everyone;

Though I do not have anything of consequence to contribute at this point being essentially ignorant to all things Dredd, I 've joined hoping that some of you might be able to simply point me in the right direction to get me started.  What I am looking for is 'where can I find information on the character Eustace Fargo, and how the world in the series between the years of 2019-2031' (if such information even exists).

Currently I'm in the midst of writing what is looking to pan out as a 50-60K word novella that focusses upon a couple of weeks in 2029 wherein Eustace Fargo (2031, Chief Judge Fargo), has been sent by the then U.S. Attorney General to serve a short tour with a contractor out in the field.  The U.S.A.G. & contractors goal being to both educate and 'temper' Special Prosecutor Fargo's views and understanding of the current situation, ultimately affecting his views on the Street Judge system he is proposing, and to lay the seed for his ultimate desire to see it changed.

My exposure/knowledge of the 2000AD World of Judge Dredd is extremely limited (essentially being Dredd ignorant).  At this time I've performed a number of google searches regarding the series, Fargo, checked over a number of forums, the various Wiki-pages and naturally have seen the two movies (of which it is my understanding that "Judge Dredd" was more true to the publication, though "Dredd" definitely inspired me)...  Naturally, the better I understand Fargo and the world prior or at the time the Street Judge system begins the more relevant the story becomes (though in the end I suppose it doesn't matter, it would be nice if it struck Dredd fans as "wow, that makes sense!").

As to myself, I'm simply a novice writer that initially began writing to improve upon my own literacy (having been illiterate at one time), and will post what has to date been short stories, a few novelettes, novellas and so on simply on appropriate public forums (having never published anything beyond that, and certainly not in a professional vein, even web based).  Having just finished a 211K-word novel in the truest sense of the word (1870's old West) I needed to step away from it before beginning subsequent re-reads and edits.  So... Having just seen the movie "Dredd" again, ideas started to flow, my research began which simply inspired more ideas, and at a week's worth of writing I'm already at 30K-words (10K-just last night).

This little project of mine is really flowing fast and fleshing out quickly.  I'm REALLY liking the path it has taken, the backstory makes sense and is supportive, yet I'd like to get it as close to fitting as I possibly can.

If any of you could point me to appropriate forum areas, topics or threads that might contain that information, or even just post a couple of key-words to help in my searches, it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for any help you care to render!

K2

Hi,

there's not been much covering that era other than Origins. Which fills in the blanks of Fargo and Justice Department's rise to power.

There is already an upcoming novel series called Judges planned for this year - think there is a chapter called Avalanche online, but I think that's more 2050/60ish.

Cheers

Steve

Quote from: Steve Green on 14 February, 2018, 02:20:15 PM
Hi,

there's not been much covering that era other than Origins. Which fills in the blanks of Fargo and Justice Department's rise to power.

There is already an upcoming novel series called Judges planned for this year - think there is a chapter called Avalanche online, but I think that's more 2050/60ish.

Cheers

Steve

Thanks Steve!

I have reviewed and performed searches for the "Origins" information which I believe is where I discovered C.J. Fargo's request to Joseph to undo or revamp the Street Judge system (which plays out so well it is not even funny.  My lead character having him make her a promise, which she also made the U.S.A.G. make to her when she was brought to the U.S. in 2020... Fargo spending time with "Rokka-Kae" the fulfillment of that promise).

Unfortunately I'm not sure what I should search for regarding (quote from Wikipedia) "The middle chapters of "Origins" cover Fargo's life history, and how he founded his Judge System in 2031."  My story is also playing out well in laying the seeds for the policy of celibacy, and his subsequent affair (both post story).  I suppose that's the point of my research, so that those minimal (existing) points of the series have some relevance and inspiration from my story.

In any case, thanks for your quick response!

K2

Steve & Anyone Else that considered this question;

To save you further reading know I'll not be following the 2000AD Fargo story line as it exists.

First off thanks so much for your help and considering what I was requesting!  As I kept digging deeper, I ran into this phrase on a couple of websites (or perhaps just paid attention);  "After armed gangs stormed the White House and were able to avoid jail sentences by intimidating juries, Fargo outlined a New Deal to scrap the principle of due process and create a combined police and judicial force who could fairly dispense instant justice – the Judges."  That would have been I suspect between 2027-2031.

Though I understand that we're this moment a lot closer to that date than the original authors, I'm not real comfortable with the idea of U.S. Civil Rights simply being scrapped due to a singular hiccup in the system.  So as I began writing while I performed a more in-depth Fargo investigation, it was very obvious from the get go that it would take more, much more to collapse such a legal system to a point we roll back centuries.

In that it is already 2018, I have decided to take this story along a different path that meets at the same place. IOW, something else initiates the timeline from now to street judges... So I've decided that the world/U.S. needs to have a serious crisis that forces two things: 1. Martial Law, 2. Refugees, internal & international.  I also don't believe that nuclear war as most fall back on needs to take place, thinking that simple things having a domino and then snowball effect is enough.

Considering that, I believe that demonic (not divine) providence has already supplied me with a perfect example to build that back story off of.  So of the four or so backstory chapters scattered throughout my story to establish an environment to place Fargo on the path to presenting "Street Judges" as a better alternative, while leaving history as it is, as we now know it... I believe I need to make it worse before it gets better.

To that end, the U.S./world's fall will be initiated by one minor character in that chapter. A leader who essentially dismantles the government, foreign policies and environmental advancements, and creates a cascading effect bringing the world to the brink due to his instabilities.  That chapter will be named after him, in that the world refuses to ever say his name again, and so will be entitled;

"The Mad Clown"

In any case, it sets up a more realistic scenario to get us from 2018 to 2029 (when the story takes place) and lay the seeds for the balance of Fargo's life (as I have discovered thus far).

Thanks again for your help!

K2

I wouldn't describe the WH incident as "a singular hiccup" - it's described as the last straw - due process (along with corruption and intimidation) meant that trials were taking longer and convictions getting harder to secure, leaving gangs feeling so untouchable that they would even consider attacking the WH. I'm also unsure where the need for refugees comes in - no shortage of home-grown perps!

Quote from: Dandontdare on 16 February, 2018, 12:21:05 PM
I wouldn't describe the WH incident as "a singular hiccup" - it's described as the last straw - due process (along with corruption and intimidation) meant that trials were taking longer and convictions getting harder to secure, leaving gangs feeling so untouchable that they would even consider attacking the WH. I'm also unsure where the need for refugees comes in - no shortage of home-grown perps!

Thanks for the response!  Just to recap, for my story now "I'll not be following the 2000AD Fargo story line as it exists."


In a nutshell, let's just say we consider this a plausible reality, I'm simply trying to figure out how to get us from "now till then, 2018-2029" realistically.  If everything runs hunky-dory till then except for the gangs mentioned, I don't feel you get there.

Perhaps, yet you're talking about repealing a number of the foundation amendments of the U.S. Bill of Rights, essentially chucking it, so hence the premise of the U.S..  Long before that would happen, "martial law" would be enacted for good cause which would nip it even more in the bud and be legal.  I'm also not suggesting that aspect of the story is going to be disregarded.  In fact, I utilize that to instigate martial law which then never gets repealed.  So instead of Street Judges being a de-evolution, they're actually a positive evolution to set the legal system back on a path to run full circle.

That said, you wonder "why refugees?"... perps regardless.  Well, I feel to move everything in the right direction there needs to be some global disaster going on.  One that doesn't wipe out vast numbers of people yet concentrates them in small areas.  I also feel that assists in supporting the martial law aspect in that the sudden increased density demands it.  Finally, wherein things start to turn around, there has to be a reason for in such a short time NOT going back to the U.S.-BoR, and instituting the judges instead. 

Lastly, refugees does not have to mean a sudden culture clash and mixing of... The way it has worked out in mine is that the flood of people forces a concentrating of the U.S. citizens to hold together, and that coincidentally then brings the population up to where it needs to be.

That's just my "brainstorming" of it... Perhaps once I become better educated to the existing story I'll see it in a new light.  Thanks for helping me to do that!

K2

So I found this thread here: https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=31822.0 that some may remember which seems to discuss exactly what I'm trying to write about, though I'm still having a hard time gleaning from it information about that change (whys and so on).

Are there particular issues of the series I should look into?  What I'm finding (discussions found in web searches) hints at needing 1500-1519 & 1529-1535.  Is that correct or are just a few in those sets relevant?

Thanks again for any help!

K2

Who do you think is going to read this?

2000AD fans aren't going to be interested in a story written by someone they've never heard of about a 2000AD character which contradicts 2000AD's origin story for that character, as written by 2000AD's most important writer.

Why don't you just come up with your own characters and setting and write a completely original story instead?

Bit harsh there. He can write what he wants - altered dredd timeline stories by non-prog writers are hardly unprecedented anyway.

Quote from: Richard on 18 February, 2018, 12:27:31 PM
Who do you think is going to read this?
2000AD fans aren't going to be interested in a story written by someone they've never heard of about a 2000AD character which contradicts 2000AD's origin story for that character, as written by 2000AD's most important writer.
Why don't you just come up with your own characters and setting and write a completely original story instead?

Thanks for responding.

Fair enough, however for good or bad the story would not be appropriate for this site, or for die-hard Dredd or Die fans anyway I suspect.  My inspiration came form simply the "Dredd" movie, and as I investigated it, the Judge Dredd world as a whole and so on simply to learn more I became fascinated... But, no doubt due to lack of easily found web-sources, found a lot of holes in what I could discover.

The one aspect that intrigued me however was how and why did it get to that point (of Dredd), and "what inspired Eustace Fargo to shift from a political career to a L.E./Judicial one, and what would make that system a justifiable one to have."  In the end however, all of the tidbits about Fargo's career, his ultimate reversal of opinion on Street Judges, his policies that shaped them (ex.: celibacy) and ultimate failures to abide by them and so on, simply left the premise for what struck me as a great lead in as to "why."

The "why" of it all is intriguing. However... though all of it is semi-reasonable (and I get it, it is just a fantasy world), it also presents a great opportunity to develop reasons to make all of that happen, in a very real sense.  Sometimes the "why" something got to how it is can be even more interesting than the "how."

In the end however you are right. 'Who would read it?'  Well, I suppose that doesn't matter in that I'm enjoying creating it.  That's the only reason I do much of anything.

I had just hoped the experts here could have helped educate me as to Dredd and Fargo, given me some better insights, and been excited to share their knowledge with someone ignorant of something they love.

But I get it...

Thanks never the less!

K2

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 18 February, 2018, 03:17:55 PM
Bit harsh there. He can write what he wants - altered dredd timeline stories by non-prog writers are hardly unprecedented anyway.

Thanks for the encouragement!

K2

Quote from: K2 on 18 February, 2018, 03:42:11 PMhis ultimate reversal of opinion on Street Judges

I don't recall him ever having done this. As he was dying, his whispered to Dredd that it was never meant to be forever, but that was likely referring to the judges having ultimately authority over the USA rather than the street judge system per se. (In other words, Fargo likely assumed they'd eventually return to a system with a president and the like at least, but with street judges continuing to be law enforcement.)

It's still pretty loose - even with the gaps filled in by Origins. There are some bits retconned or at least omitted by Origins (Fargo's sister Arden Polders from the Cal Files story doesn't get a mention)

Booth's tenure involves a bit of expansionism, invading for resources etc. which occurs after the establishment of the Street Judges.

The resource issue could be a particular piece, and Booth relied on mechanisation in his attempts to hold on to power (although this is some established pre-origins and isn't really addressed that much in it)

Automation and decimation of jobs could be another factor you might like to look at - that's definitely something in Dredd's world.

Quote from: K2 on 18 February, 2018, 03:45:28 PM

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 18 February, 2018, 03:17:55 PM
Bit harsh there. He can write what he wants - altered dredd timeline stories by non-prog writers are hardly unprecedented anyway.

Thanks for the encouragement!

K2

No worries.  No offence to Richard but I just knew someone would come along to the thread to warn you off 'our' territory.

I think most posters will agree that you're welcome in the forum and that it's great to see a new Dredd fan taking an interest.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 18 February, 2018, 03:50:01 PM

Quote from: K2 on 18 February, 2018, 03:42:11 PMhis ultimate reversal of opinion on Street Judges

I don't recall him ever having done this. As he was dying, his whispered to Dredd that it was never meant to be forever, but that was likely referring to the judges having ultimately authority over the USA rather than the street judge system per se. (In other words, Fargo likely assumed they'd eventually return to a system with a president and the like at least, but with street judges continuing to be law enforcement.)

Thanks for responding.  What I have found regarding this is as follows (quoted from other sites):
1. "His last words were to Dredd, telling him the Judges' rule was wrong and that he had to reverse it."
2. "With his dying breath he asked Dredd to dismantle the nightmarish legal system that he had created."
3. "In his last year of life he began to deteriorate mentally, and lost faith in his Judge System. He became increasingly despondent as a result, disliking the fact that the Judges had turned America into a dictatorship." [1531] it continues with... "His last words were to Dredd, telling him the Judges' rule was wrong and that he had to reverse it. [1535]
4. "Judge Dredd retrieved Fargo, who was revived, but the long period of being frozen had damaged his body and he soon died. His last words were to Dredd, telling him the Judges' rule was wrong and that he had to reverse it."
5. "In his last year of life he began to deteriorate mentally, and lost faith in his Judge System. He became increasingly despondent as a result, disliking the fact that the Judges had turned America into a dictatorship."
6. "in which the dying Fargo (who's not only effectively Dredd's father but his other self) disavows the system he created--the world-view that's the only one Dredd has ever known ("It was never meant to be forever, Joe!")--and Dredd lies about it to cover it up in the very next scene."

Etc..

Those and similar reviews are what initiated my thinking... However, in that the Street Judge system is illegal by U.S. Civil Rights standards, it inspired me to think of "what if?"

What if crisis demanded martial law? > What if martial law was abused and made a new system that ultimately began to fail? > What if Street Judges were proposed as a system to end martial law? > What if after years of that system, the founder of it had regret, and unable to do so himself now, passed along to another to bring it full circle back to due process?...

What Dredd ultimately does with that is no matter.  My intention being, it is a tale about the "why" of how Fargo began his journey, and what shaped his views and goals.  Once again, this story is not about Dredd, or the world as it becomes, it's about the "why" Fargo does what he does, his subsequent journey irrelevant.

In fact, in "my" story set during two-weeks of 2029, he is just a secondary character.  A young prosecutor that has come up with a great idea (though really an old one) to end the corruption of a government reeling from crisis, and instead seeing it as opportunity.  However, he is ignorant as to the masses coming from privileged portion of society.  The story is of the "why the world is as it is" and his "education as to how it really is," in the process establishing his viewpoints and goals that never bear fruit fully.

Thanks again for your help!

Hush....an alias

Quote from: Steve Green on 18 February, 2018, 03:58:06 PM
It's still pretty loose - even with the gaps filled in by Origins. There are some bits retconned or at least omitted by Origins (Fargo's sister Arden Polders from the Cal Files story doesn't get a mention)

Booth's tenure involves a bit of expansionism, invading for resources etc. which occurs after the establishment of the Street Judges.

The resource issue could be a particular piece, and Booth relied on mechanisation in his attempts to hold on to power (although this is some established pre-origins and isn't really addressed that much in it)

Automation and decimation of jobs could be another factor you might like to look at - that's definitely something in Dredd's world.

Thanks again Steve!  I'll think about all of that.

K2

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 18 February, 2018, 04:24:35 PM
No worries.  No offence to Richard but I just knew someone would come along to the thread to warn you off 'our' territory.

I think most posters will agree that you're welcome in the forum and that it's great to see a new Dredd fan taking an interest.

Thanks again for the support!

K2

No offense taken. To be clear, I have no intention in warning newcomers off "our" territory, and I'd ordinarily be happy to educate and encourage them. But I just don't see the point of someone setting out to write a story which deliberately contradicts Origins even though it's about the main character from Origins and all the events shown in that story. Fans of Judge Dredd won't want to read it, because John Wagner's story is the definitive "canon." (Wagner is the writer who created Judge Dredd and who had written the majority of the most important stories over the last 40 years.) If you want people to read it, then read Origins and then fit your story around what has already been established instead. Or invent your own universe and protagonist, and then people won't begin the story with their own preconceptions about what it should be like.

Quote from: K2 on 18 February, 2018, 04:32:55 PMThanks for responding.  What I have found regarding this is as follows (quoted from other sites)

Which is all fine, but that's people imprinting their own take on to something. Perhaps you should read the source material yourself, rather than just researching via other people's quotes. For what it's worth, the entire exchange is:

[spoiler]
Fargo: I'd tried to deny it. But I didn't believe myself anymore... What we did – wrong. Too far. Went too far.
Dredd: Booth had to go. You did what had to be done.
Fargo: It was never meant to... be forever, Joe. We created a monster. We. Us. We're the monster. We got greedy – wanted everything – so we killed the dream, Joe. We killed America! I'm asking you... begging you – my flesh, my blood... it's not too late! Fix it! You – you and Rico – you can do it.
[/spoiler]

Take that as you will. It doesn't necessarily mean the judges in and of themselves are wrong, but perhaps the lack of oversight and the judges taking over everything. It's one thing for them to be a city-based 'extreme' judicial force. It's another to take over all forms of government. But also, Fargo at that point is deteriorating fast and likely has no context of the current situation of Mega-City One (and, for that matter, the USA as a whole).

https://www.amazon.com/Judge-Dredd-Origins-John-Wagner/dp/1781080992/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518973237&sr=8-1&keywords=Dredd+Origins (https://www.amazon.com/Judge-Dredd-Origins-John-Wagner/dp/1781080992/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518973237&sr=8-1&keywords=Dredd+Origins)

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 18 February, 2018, 04:57:09 PM

Quote from: K2 on 18 February, 2018, 04:32:55 PMThanks for responding.  What I have found regarding this is as follows (quoted from other sites)

Which is all fine, but that's people imprinting their own take on to something. Perhaps you should read the source material yourself, rather than just researching via other people's quotes. For what it's worth, the entire exchange is:

[spoiler]
Fargo: I'd tried to deny it. But I didn't believe myself anymore... What we did – wrong. Too far. Went too far.
Dredd: Booth had to go. You did what had to be done.
Fargo: It was never meant to... be forever, Joe. We created a monster. We. Us. We're the monster. We got greedy – wanted everything – so we killed the dream, Joe. We killed America! I'm asking you... begging you – my flesh, my blood... it's not too late! Fix it! You – you and Rico – you can do it.
[/spoiler]

Take that as you will. It doesn't necessarily mean the judges in and of themselves are wrong, but perhaps the lack of oversight and the judges taking over everything. It's one thing for them to be a city-based 'extreme' judicial force. It's another to take over all forms of government. But also, Fargo at that point is deteriorating fast and likely has no context of the current situation of Mega-City One (and, for that matter, the USA as a whole).

Thank you so very much for that!

It actually fits perfectly, and I do mean perfectly with the 2029 plot I'm working on.  In the end I suppose that is the point.  I have no intention nor desire to change anything from 2029 on.  I'm simply trying to establish a scenario that gives some reasonable and plausible background as to why post-2029, Fargo does what he does.

JFTR, current events help support the story and 2020 crisis more than I could have ever dreamed up.  The U.S. President erased from history (in the story) and who shall not be named the instigator only referred to by all as "The Mad Clown."

Thanks so much once again, that is a nice chunk of what I needed and works out marvelously.

K2

Quote from: Richard on 18 February, 2018, 04:55:50 PM
No offense taken. To be clear, I have no intention in warning newcomers off "our" territory, and I'd ordinarily be happy to educate and encourage them. But I just don't see the point of someone setting out to write a story which deliberately contradicts Origins even though it's about the main character from Origins and all the events shown in that story. Fans of Judge Dredd won't want to read it, because John Wagner's story is the definitive "canon." (Wagner is the writer who created Judge Dredd and who had written the majority of the most important stories over the last 40 years.) If you want people to read it, then read Origins and then fit your story around what has already been established instead. Or invent your own universe and protagonist, and then people won't begin the story with their own preconceptions about what it should be like.

Quote from: Richard on 18 February, 2018, 05:01:30 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Judge-Dredd-Origins-John-Wagner/dp/1781080992/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518973237&sr=8-1&keywords=Dredd+Origins (https://www.amazon.com/Judge-Dredd-Origins-John-Wagner/dp/1781080992/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518973237&sr=8-1&keywords=Dredd+Origins)

Ditto, no offense taken, and thank you for the link!

K2

Throughout this thread and in other conversations you all have been extremely helpful and I sincerely thank you all.

Might anyone have anything they can share on Eustace Fargo's policy of celibacy for Street Judges, as to why he enacted it, or was it not detailed in the series?

Thanks again!

K2

Quote from: K2 on 19 February, 2018, 02:10:56 AM
Might anyone have anything they can share on Eustace Fargo's policy of celibacy for Street Judges, as to why he enacted it, or was it not detailed in the series?

Not much in any comic text other than the merest hint of Fargo's conservative -possibly religious though not stressed- family background in Origins and the implied idea of too many close emotional ties being a hinderance, distraction or liability to a Judge's vocation.

It's the kind of thing that if there's an attempt to explain the why or how of it, draws too much attention to the idea itself and the complexities of trying to justify it, although the consequences of breaking the celibacy law for Judges has been played out several times in stories.

Thanks Joe Soap!

If you have an opportunity, could you share an example of those formal consequences?  I'm familiar from web-sources with the result of Fargo's indiscretion (his attempted suicide, etc.), yet I'm curious as to what would be the formal punishment.

Thanks for your help!

K2

Quote from: K2 on 19 February, 2018, 03:03:38 AMIf you have an opportunity, could you share an example of those formal consequences?  I'm familiar from web-sources with the result of Fargo's indiscretion (his attempted suicide, etc.), yet I'm curious as to what would be the formal punishment.

Expulsion from the Justice Dept. and 20 years hard labour working the mines at the penal colony on Titan -Saturn's moon- but sentences have been less or bargained for.

Thanks again Joe Soap for the quick and precise reply!

K2

Nobody got 20 years for breaking the celibacy rule. You just get fired. But Judge Sladek got 20 years for murdering someone who was blackmailing him over his affair.

Quote from: Richard on 19 February, 2018, 09:58:49 AM
Nobody got 20 years for breaking the celibacy rule. You just get fired.

Or not even that: sometimes just a black mark on the record and a transfer away from temptation, occasionally demoted from a Senior/Chief role for repeat offences, or busted down to an Auxiliary if intransigent (i.e unwilling to give up the relationship - Auxiliaries don't have the celibacy restriction, and often have kids/normal lives etc.).  As Richard says, the apparently harsh penalties for extra-judicial nookie actually stem from dereliction of duty due to time taken by the affair, or criminal actions taken covering it up/supporting a family, rather than the over-enthusiastic use of the daystick per se.

Generally it's been fleshed out from the symbolic OTT concept of the original. (Same with the long walk)

Minor offences can lead to being shifted to crappier duties, taken off the streets etc. or pyschological treatment.

Both the Pit and Sector House are good examples of the later Dredd storylines and how they treat offences within the Judges.

Thanks Richard, TordelBack and Steve Green for adding more variables to the potential ramifications regarding sexual/emotional entanglements.  All of this information that you fellas have provided thus far is helping me out considerably.  What it is allowing me to do is "reverse engineer" (a term I've heard used that I hope is correct) the world as it is, or more came to be, and then from that be able to apply situations and scenarios that lend themselves to nudging viewpoints in that direction.

Though I'll have some dirty little secrets in my story that lend themselves to supporting everything that has been discussed (gang problem, government issues, attack on the White House, the system of generating new judges, etc.), I have ABSOLUTELY no intention of changing anything as it has been presented in the series.

That said, as the world is and will likely be by 2027, even the density along the Northeast Mega-region (Bos-Wash Megalopolis), I believe needs to change to support and promote the coming of the Street Judges.  That population density shift alone coupled with the problems that would come with it, along with what forced that density shift, I believe will help establish a more plausible scenario.

In the end however, for me it is simply the fun of working it all out and building the story.

Thanks again for all of your help!

K2

Good luck!

So, during Joseph Dredd's visit to Fargoville and his subsequent viewing of the 'Chief Judge Fargo Archival film footage' he comments that "it is interesting all right."  Is that comment sincere or sarcastic?  If the latter, why, is it explained?

Thanks again for everyone's help!

K2

Is that comment sincere or sarcastic?  If the latter, why

the official version of fargos
life has edited out ephram
his blacksheep twin brother

Quote from: Big_Dave on 20 February, 2018, 05:57:08 PM
the official version of fargos
life has edited out ephram
his blacksheep twin brother

Or the editors of Fargoville who venerate Eustace but see Ephram and his children as traitors.

Thanks Big Dave and Joe Soap, that led me to a lot of information including his sister Arden Polders.

K2

So on the Wiki page for "Mega-City One," the following passage is stated for "Before 2027 History:"

"By the late 2020s America's population is rapidly approaching one billion, and a conurbation now stretches from New York to Washington DC in an attempt to contain the populace of the East Coast states. This will eventually become the first Mega-City, a new kind of urban development to house greater numbers of people. The development causes huge amounts of civil unrest and gang-related crime."

What issue is that stated in, and is it elaborated upon?

Thanks for your help!

K2

I don't think it's stated anywhere; wiki people sometimes just make shit up. I'll take it out.

Thanks Richard!  Fellas I'm going to save you the looking, I found my answer which I'll take these lessons and build a single chapter to connect up the dots... The lessons are from history, which according to them must be erased.

"You would be amazed at how malleable the mind becomes when a person is deprived of food, water and comfort.  The terror and suffering however, I inflict for pleasure."
Verbally stated, individual unknown, from: Disposable: Experiences of a Forced Slave.

"The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia."
George Orwell, 1984.

'If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.'
A misquote attributed to Joseph Goebbels, most likely a twisting of the "große Lüge" or
Big Lie propaganda technique outlined in Adolf Hitler's, Mein Kampf.

Thanks for all of your help everyone, everything is falling into place except, 40K words I fear may be closer to 80K.

Thanks again!

K2

Just an update in that you all helped me out tremendously.  Currently the (now) short-novel which I expect to be around 80K words, as of Chapter-23 (including much of the backmatter) is has hit 53K-words.  The story itself has evolved to something I'm very pleased with keeping in theme with the existing 2000AD storyline.  More importantly, I believe it sets a very reasonable and realistic tone as to the "hows and whys" of Eustace Fargo and the Street-Judge system.  Neither being as blunt and simplistic as you might expect.

Additional information which explains in detail the world as it stands as of 2029, how it got to such a point, the government and culture, etc. is extensive, even including an explanation of the "grid" or mapping system which only applies to my story.

In any case, the current story's contents are as follows:

Lest ye be Judged

Preface (including acknowledgements which means you guys and this forum):
Introduction:

Table of Contents:
1. Harvest Time
2. Crush of Humanity
3. To be a Reaper
4. Into the Land of Madness
5. Horror Compounded
6. To Sleep, Perchance to Dream
7. Training Day
8. With Furious Wrath
9. Grappling with a Monster
10. The Mad Clown
11. Revelations
12. Ever Deeper
13. The Dancing Instructor
14. Way of the Future
15. Altered States
16. Let it Flow
17. Respect da Choka
18. Eeny Meeny Miny Ho
18. Parking Old School
19. Same Difference
20. Another Day
21. Onward to Eden
22. Oasis of Humanity
23. Hide and Seek
24. Tin Can Alley
25. Policy of Erasure
26. A Mother's Wrath
27. Tower Horizon
28. Finger of God
29. American Atlas

Clearing the Buffers ~ A Postscript

xx. Outro: Breathe by Télépopmusik

Epilogue:

Appendix:
xx. Vocabulary of the New Order Federal Government
xx. Equipment of Reaper-379, Rokka-Kae (Rahk'kuh-Kay)
xx. Pastoral Pidgin/Slang Vocabulary (122-count)

(Saved Deleted Chapters)
xx. The Woo-Bar
xx. Knockin' at the Woo-Bar

(Reference Documentation Not for Public Viewing)
xx. Archival Film Footage (transcript) of Chief Justice Eustace Fargo
xx. Chief Justice Fargo's Last Conversation with Judge Dredd
xx. Existing 2000AD Fargo/Dredd/Mega-City One/"Dredd-world" History


Thank you all so much once again!  I'm really enjoying this project and due to your help am very pleased with how it has evolved!

K2

That's fast work! Congratulations.

Fargo had a sister, Arden Polders, if I remember rightly. Can't remember the name of the story where this is mentioned, but it seems to have been ignored or forgotten in Origins (which you really should read before embarking on your endeavour, K2).

The Cal Files.

Collected in case files 24.

Basically Dredd finds some blackmail tapes/dirt on Fargo, suggesting that he had an affair. It is determined that she is Fargo's sister, Arden Polders.

Dredd finds some blackmail tapes/dirt on Fargo, suggesting that he had an affair. It is determined that she is Fargo's sister

fargo had sex
with his sister!?

Quote from: Steve Green on 28 February, 2018, 02:58:09 PM
Basically Dredd finds some blackmail tapes/dirt on Fargo, suggesting that he had an affair.

I've always felt that the explosive issue in the story wasn't that Fargo may have had an affair - it was that [spoiler]Polders appeared to be Joe's and Rico's mother, and that Justice Dept had lied to them about being clones all their lives.[/spoiler] As we later discover that Goodman had told Dredd about Fargo's actual affair,  it makes more sense that this is what concerns Joe - and Edgar.

Hey guys;

Thanks for all of that, every little bit helps set things up to play out in the future yet being 20+ years after the fact may not matter as much.  Never the less, it's been fun putting together every little bit and piece I can find regarding Fargo to formulate a whole personality.  I've even found a couple of frames of when he is speaking with Dredd and Rico when they are young.  His statement of; "Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, they were promised that too--"  That plays in directly into what transpires in my story.

(Though I may have mentioned it previously)  The lead (Rokka-Kae) character in my story made a promise to a Triad back in Hong Kong.  Once she realizes the foresight of the one who had her make it, once in the U.S. she has a then guard also make the same promise to her.  When that guard raises up to being the U.S. Attorney General, she realizes the insightfulness of it and agrees to bring a new young prosecutor to Rokka-Kae so that they can both try and fulfill their promises.  Naturally Rokka-Kae and the USAG also have Fargo make that same promise which hopefully one day he will fulfill.

That promise being:
"When, not if... but when you realize what you have been fighting for and believed in all of your life turns out to be wrong, that you not let pride, vanity or apathy keep you from trying to change it to what is right."

A simple thing, yet any of you with a few years behind you will understand regret.

K2

Quote from: K2 on 28 February, 2018, 06:22:53 PM
"When, not if... but when you realize what you have been fighting for and believed in all of your life turns out to be wrong, that you not let pride, vanity or apathy keep you from trying to change it to what is right."

For the love of God, get yourself an editor.

I'm simply a novice writer that initially began writing to improve upon my own literacy (having been illiterate at one time), and will post what has to date been short stories, a few novelettes, novellas and so on simply on appropriate public forums (having never published anything beyond that, and certainly not in a professional vein). 'Who would read it?' Well, I suppose that doesn't matter in that I'm enjoying creating it.  That's the only reason I do much of anything.

have fun with your project K9

Quote from: Big_Dave on 28 February, 2018, 07:50:45 PM
I'm simply a novice writer that initially began writing to improve upon my own literacy (having been illiterate at one time), and will post what has to date been short stories, a few novelettes, novellas and so on simply on appropriate public forums (having never published anything beyond that, and certainly not in a professional vein). 'Who would read it?' Well, I suppose that doesn't matter in that I'm enjoying creating it.  That's the only reason I do much of anything.

have fun with your project K9

That's a perfectly fair point, which I missed earlier. I can't edit my previous post, but I will apologise for it.

No apology needed, and I understand why you wouldn't throw me a bone in the way of a correction.

Sorry to trouble.

K9... Err I mean K2

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 28 February, 2018, 08:08:01 PM

Quote from: Big_Dave on 28 February, 2018, 07:50:45 PM
I'm simply a novice writer that initially began writing to improve upon my own literacy (having been illiterate at one time), and will post what has to date been short stories, a few novelettes, novellas and so on simply on appropriate public forums (having never published anything beyond that, and certainly not in a professional vein). 'Who would read it?' Well, I suppose that doesn't matter in that I'm enjoying creating it.  That's the only reason I do much of anything.

have fun with your project K9

That's a perfectly fair point, which I missed earlier. I can't edit my previous post, but I will apologise for it.

An apology from Mr Campbell. Wow.  You have achieved something so few here have.

Quote from: Tjm86 on 28 February, 2018, 09:26:38 PM
An apology from Mr Campbell. Wow.  You have achieved something so few here have.

I apologise for stuff all the time. I was wrong — that was the wrong thing to say. I missed the context, but that's on me and I'm sorry I said it. I'm not really sure why you felt the need to be a dick about it... I'm broadly confident I've neither run over your dog nor insulted your wife but, if I did, I'm sorry for that, too.

It's the internet. We're supposed to be dicks.

Bags I be Ivor.

This project is advancing extremely well and if any of you are members of the notorious "Blue Forum" (due to the adult content it will contain), and curious about this feel free to check there!

Thanks again EVERYONE for all your help!

K2

Well dang, I began this 'short-story' with the intent of it being 10k-20k words on Feb. 02.   Now 2-months later I have 1-1/4 chapters remaining (of now 40 chapters, +4 extensive appendices, +4 short sections of front-matter, +header art) and I'm at 93,000 words.  :-\

Verbose might be the appropriate term, but I'll go with yappy.   :-X 

K2

"Clap along if you feel like yappiness is the truth."

[sorry, no my coat is the third one on the left.  Thanks.]

I'm so close to wrapping this up only requiring another 're-read/edit,' since you all are mentioned in the preface, I decided to post the frontmatter and table of contents here.  I'm extremely pleased/proud of how the story played out, in no small part due to you all and your help.  Truly, the information you supplied inspired the plot, forming the course of the story to generate events to affect Eustace Fargo (Cub) to be the man you all know.

My 20k-word short evolved into a 95k-word novel with extensive appendices and background chapters.

My sincere thanks once again.

K2





Lest ye be Judged
An 'unauthorized and not for profit' Judge Dredd Prequel ~ 2029


Copyright Licensing Disclaimer:
The novel "Lest ye be Judged" is an original 'unauthorized, unpaid and not for profit' fan-fiction of which the author has not received compensation in any form for its production.

"Judge Dredd, Eustace Fargo, Street Judges and any other part of the Judge Dredd Universe" are all copyrighted characters and themes wholly owned by Rebellion Publishing, Oxford, UK, who have not authorized, licensed or been paid for their use within this body of work, nor upon the header art.

The header art background "Sci Fi Street" is a copyrighted work of art wholly owned by Andre Sutherland, of Berlin, DE (formerly Melbourne, AU), who has not authorized, licensed or been paid for its use upon the header art. All musical and audio works are wholly owned by the respective artists and/or production companies who have not authorized, licensed or been paid for their use within this work, and are listed in appendix-A5.

The character "the Mad Clown," no matter how realistic or similar to any other person or POTUS is simply a fictional character developed solely for this story. Any similarity is purely, somewhat, kinda-sorta coincidental. No one could be that whacked out and be president of the United States. Could they?

This work including the header-art is not to be reproduced or distributed in whole or part without the direct consent of the applicable copyright holding parties and the author of this novel, K2- U.S.A., April 03, 2018.


***Warning*** This fictional novel contains graphic depictions of; violence, death, genocide, murder, sex (both consensual and not), drug use and a significant number of expletives, vulgar terms and expressions. If the reader finds any of those fictional depictions too offensive to be exposed to, then they are advised to cease reading now. ***Warning***

**Caution** This fictional story contains references to disturbing subjects such as; execution, murder, rape, various forms of sex, drug use, prostitution, torture, cannibalism, slavery, slavery of minors, starvation, disease, dehumanization, crushing poverty, totalitarian governments, dystopian societies, ecological collapse, nuclear weapon use and others. If the reader is unsettled by mention of such subjects, then they are advised to cease reading now. **Caution**


Preface -or- My drivel as to how and why:
Inspired by the 2012 movie "Dredd," disconcertingly drawn to "Ma-Ma," compelled me to write a short story or fan-fiction set in the seedier shadows of Mega-City One. As you will discover, the short-story part didn't exactly pan out.

Hoping to do the movie justice, I began investigating background information regarding the characters, the world as presented and so on, in short order discovering 2000AD comics and Rebellion A/S, originators of all things Dredd. Overwhelming would be a fair description arriving to this party some forty years too late. Fortunately, during my research I stumbled upon the 2000AD forums and the gracious members there.

My gratitude to the members of the 2000AD forum and those at Rebellion A/S is both deep and sincere. Without their invaluable assistance, my research would have been long and exhausting. Due to their help, the story would evolve as it did; though more truthfully reveal itself, the story already there.

So again to the 2000AD forum members and those at Rebellion, my deepest thanks or as another might say, "Florix Grabundae!"

With their help, I encountered a startling revelation. The Street Judge system in the series had begun in the year 2031. After some quick math (fingers, toes, clomping my foot and so on), it struck me that year was a mere thirteen away. After a bit more digging I discovered that 2029 and even 2027 had direct relevance, reducing that timeframe to a paltry nine years.

Please don't misunderstand, I get it. It's a fictional story, set in a fictional timeline, established forty years ago when it was a possibility. However, I have always felt that the best stories were at least plausible. The question being; 'how could the citizens and government of the United States, devolve to such a point that they would be willing to surrender their civil liberties in a mere nine years?'

The current news supplied the mechanism for that collapse. The help from the fine folks at the 2000AD forums supplied me with information for the end (or more accurately, what my ending had to establish to support their story's beginning). That left everything in between, which thankfully the comic series had left mostly wide open. Unfortunately, here in America surrendering civil liberties is a huge step back, and then it struck me.

Why go back when you could go forward? The cycle of life, full circle and all that.

This story's clock did not stop at midnight, continuing instead into the darkest hours. What follows are those dark hours. And though we cannot turn the clock back to midnight, perhaps it can be nudged forward into the twilight before the dawn.

K2- U.S.A., April 03, 2018.


Enhanced Reading Options:
Be aware before playing sound effects (denoted by >> <<) and music that they may be loud.
The sound effects and music are added into this work to help establish a mood in the reader. If you opt to listen to the sound files you are advised to; 'pause your reading, listen, and only once through, resume your reading' in that they can be extremely distracting and will detract from the story if listened to otherwise.

Five Historical Background Chapters (2, 10, 16, 21, 32) are scattered throughout the story (denoted by *** after the chapter name). The reader may peruse these chapters at any time without fear of them working as spoilers. However, if the reader would prefer to remain as ignorant as the characters, understanding and experiencing the world from their viewpoint, then they should be avoided until finished with the story.

Appendices have been added to help the reader fully understand all aspects of the story. The reader may review these appendices at any time without fear of them working as a spoiler. To do so will grant you the insight and knowledge of Rokka-Kae, the story's protagonist. In contrast, the reader may opt to experience the story from the viewpoint of Cub, the deuteragonist. If so, then chapter No.1 "Harvest Time," Appendices; A2-Glossary of the RCFG, Pastoral A3-Vocabulary & A4-Translations, should be avoided.

Glossary, Vocabulary and Translation Appendices have been included in this novel due to the extensive number of unfamiliar terms and words utilized throughout. They are as follows.
A2. Glossary of the Restored Constitution Federal Government: Words, equipment, terms and definitions used by the fictional U.S. government of 2029.
A3. Pastoral Pidgin/Slang Vocabulary: The unique words and their meanings as used by the citizens in the region the story primarily takes place.
A4. Pastoral Pidgin Conversations Translated (by Chapter): Direct translations of entire lines of dialogue by chapter.


Introduction:
What would it take for you to willingly give up your civil rights, your freedom, or those rights God given, self-evident, unalienable and that shall not be infringed upon?

Would it be the threat of loss of life? What about agonizing torture or any other long-suffering cruelty that someone could inflict upon you? Naturally, those rights could be taken away by an irresistible force; yet what fate would inspire you to surrender them anxiously and when all said and done, be grateful that you had?

Half a world away, over forty-years ago, a man peered into an electrified cage at two females who had suffered terribly and long. To terrorize them before he began his cruelties again, in a calm monotone voice he told them a sadistic truth.

"You would be amazed at how malleable the mind becomes when a person is deprived of food, water and comfort. The terror and suffering however, I inflict for pleasure."

A horrific prospect to be sure, though it does beg the question of how quickly we would relent when faced with the prospect of going hungry while suffering an unquenchable thirst. For some it might mean a day, others a week and still others perhaps a month. However, what if your expectation was forever?

In a mere two years, the world had been brought to the brink of ruin. For a half-century, industries that had been restrained to protect from that, overnight found the established controls abolished. Like some great marauding beast free of its chains, the corporations supported by the politicians who they supported in kind, ran rampant over the face of the earth. And so, whether it was environmental cause and effect, Nature as a sentient being or perhaps God himself, they relented and said; "so be it."

Simply to survive, the people gathered only to discover those who had caused the loss of their world, the wealthy and politically powerful, were their only option to survive. Adroit at seizing opportunities for exploitation, the corrupt 0.1-percent had finally won; vanquishing the flawed concepts of liberty and democratic equality. Rightfully, or so those few believed, the plutocracy smugly smiled upon the starving masses stating simply; "we will save you."

Granted, at first it was difficult until systems could be put into place; yet once they had been, the rectified, imperious new colossus's sustenance filled hands extended toward the huddled masses, then paused and waited until they heard it.

"Please! Thank you."

That was nine years ago, being 2029. With ninety-four percent of the population's focus upon simply surviving another day, none remembered they had once lived another way.

One however did.


Table of Contents:
ii. Warnings and Cautions
iii. Preface
iv. Enhanced Reading Options
v. Introduction
1. Harvest Time
2. Crush of Humanity ***
3. To be a Reaper
4. Into the Land of Madness
5. Horror Compounded
6. To Sleep, Perchance to Dream
7. Training Day
8. With Furious Wrath
9. Grappling with a Monster
10. The Mad Clown ***
11. Revelations **
12. Ever Deeper
13. The Dancing Instructor
14. Way of the Future **
15. Altered States
16. Columbia Stumbled ***
17. Let it Flow
18. Respect da Choka
19. Eeny Meeny Miny Ho
20. Parking Old School
21. Same Difference ***
22. Another Day
23. Onward to Eden
24. Oasis of Humanity
25. Hide and Seek
26. Tin Can Alley **
27. Field of Steel **
28. Molding a Killer
29. A Mother's Wrath
30. Tower Horizon
31. Philosophy on High
32. Policy of Erasure ***
33. Racing the Tempest
34. Finger of God
35. Race to Infamy
36. To be a Hero
37. We the People
38. American Atlas
39. Clearing the Buffers ~ A Postscript

Pre-Outro: Breathe by Télépopmusik

Epilogue:

Post-Outro: Disparate Youth by Santigold ~ The White Tiger Theme

Appendices:
A1. Equipment of Reaper-379, Rokka-Kae (Rahk'kuh-Kay)
A2. Glossary of the Restored Constitution Federal Government (82-count)
A3. Pastoral Pidgin/Slang Vocabulary (131-count)
A4. Pastoral Pidgin Conversations Translated (by Chapter)
A5. Music & Sound Credits

Reference Documentation ~ Not for Public Viewing:
A6. Radio Traffic Conversations Complete (by Chapter)
A7. Memoirs of the Sermons of Rokka-Kae (by Chapter)
R1. Archival Film Footage (transcription) of Chief Justice Eustace Fargo
R2. Chief Justice Fargo's Last Conversation with Judge Dredd
R3. Existing 2000AD Fargo/Dredd/Mega-City One/"Dredd-world" History
R4. Propaganda
(Saved Deleted Chapters)
SD1. The Woo-Bar
SD2. Knockin' at the Woo-Bar


K2

Quote from: TordelBack on 28 February, 2018, 05:39:18 PM

Quote from: Steve Green on 28 February, 2018, 02:58:09 PM
Basically Dredd finds some blackmail tapes/dirt on Fargo, suggesting that he had an affair.

I've always felt that the explosive issue in the story wasn't that Fargo may have had an affair - it was that [spoiler]Polders appeared to be Joe's and Rico's mother, and that Justice Dept had lied to them about being clones all their lives.[/spoiler] As we later discover that Goodman had told Dredd about Fargo's actual affair,  it makes more sense that this is what concerns Joe - and Edgar.

What I liked about that is how it completely reversed the lame twist of the then-recent Stallone film. I think Wagner even quoted a very bad piece of Stallone Dredd dialogue ('My whole life is a lie!') and made it work.

Welp Fellas, that's it;

I finally have it up and finished (past letting it sit and simmer a while before another re-read/edit for grammar and phrasing) due to all of your help.  I am extremely pleased with the result of this project, and confident that conditions were established to give reason for how Judge Fargo became the man he is on the series.

The 2000AD/Rebellion story as it stood left open a great opportunity to try and make the whole scenario plausible.  The greatest challenges being:

* How to get a young Harvard Law graduate, turned U.S. prosecutor, to such a point that he toughens up enough to be a field duty Street Judge.  That's a pretty big leap from a lawyer/politician to a street cop/judge who leads by example.
* How to put the U.S. into such a position that the citizens accept overriding the Charters of Freedom.  Here in the U.S. that is an unimaginable concept.  Our nation didn't spend years existing under various systems to then work our way to democracy and civil rights; the U.S. was founded and built upon them.
* Lastly, making it all happen in a mere decade (using today as the starting point).

Finally, having stood the world on its ear in the story to make all that happen, I even added an "out."  Essentially, anything in my story can be discounted in whole or part in existing or subsequent works, yet alters nothing in what I've written.

Though I will not post links to the story (due to content and to not spam), if any are curious how it turned out and wish to take a peek you can perform a search for "WRIST: Writers, Readers, Interaction, Stories & Themes" where it will be found in the only section of the forum a visitor can see.

A second option would require you to check the story section of the notorious blue adult forum (of which some of you may be members of).

In any case, thank you all so much once again!  You helped generate a novel I'm proud of!

K2

Oh, P.S.: Be aware that the warning and cautions at the head of the story are accurate and not simply casually added.  Determine your exposure to the content before hand.

K2

The response to Lest ye be Judged ~ Reaping the Harvest ~ 2029 has been satisfying enough already (no witch hunting now, none of you fellas), and inspired some new ideas that I think I'm going to take this story a little further with a couple of others.

Lest ye be Judged ~ The Dance of Lambs ~ 2030
Dealing with the problems that would arise due to ditching the Agricultural System (ex.: the integration of the Pastoral and Fertile zones, trading off some types of crime for others), political preparation for the shift to Street Judges in Washington, etc..  I might even toss in a bit of seeding the SJ system other places (along with the repatriation of abandoned areas of the nation), perhaps even a bit of an Ephram aspect.

and...

Lest ye be Judged ~ The Measure ye Mete ~ 2031 (pre-SJ rollout)
Wherein final preparation for the Street Judge system is made, eradication of the 'Restored Constitution,' turning on the corrupt Homestead class (wealthy/super-corp/politicians) and finally having a solid reason why there would be 'gangs' all over now (where there was previously none).  Perhaps best of all, it then sets up reason to eradicate/bury/rewrite the history of the Agricultural System, RCFG and Mad Clown form 2017-2031...

...Bringing it all back to the starting point of the series; now with solid reasons as to how/why things/people are as presented.  The best part being, with all of the groundwork (why the world is as it is) already laid out in Reaping the Harvest, I can just focus on the story.

Hehe, this is exactly how my last novel went from 20k words to 211k+.  Guess I never learn  :lol:

K2

Good news fellas (regarding fan's of Fargo/Dredd);

Though I made the whole thing work (the flaws in the story-line; the all too easy acceptance of ditching civil rights, bypassing other steps in the legal system, the unfounded evolution/shift of Fargo), justifying and giving reason to where the Street Judge system takes off, and why Fargo became who he did... There has been a significant enough pushback to not have it be applied to the Dredd history that I'm going to change some things.

Not from Dredd fans mind you, yet from others who felt the story stood on its own well enough that it shouldn't be used toward its intended end.

During the final re-read/write to have it read smoothly, I'll be changing out a few minor aspects (names, and a couple minor events) to eliminate anything Fargo, Street Judge, etc..  Though where it ends up establishes the Fargo/U.S. situation perfectly, now I'll simply apply it to a different, more Americanized evolution of justice.

So fear not!  The heretical blasphemy of writing something relating to Street-Judges/Fargo/Dredd will be cleansed.

For those who might have been poking around the story, it will remain as is until all of my final changes have been made to not disrupt anyone's reading.

In any case, thanks again fellas, your help as noted here and in the preface was truly appreciated.  That never discussed plot and reasons in the Fargo saga a great one.  Past that I'll not disrupt your forum further.  Thanks again, and I wish you all the best!

Great forum!  And as always, due to the quality of the people upon it.

K2

... so this is like fifty shades of Dredd?

(Fifty shades of grey starting out (allegedly) as Twilight fanfiction before becoming something independent...)

I've not read the work, but good luck with removing enough plot/character elements so as to avoid a Rigellian Hotshot.

Quote from: Bolt-01 on 12 June, 2018, 08:55:12 AM
... so this is like fifty shades of Dredd?

(Fifty shades of grey starting out (allegedly) as Twilight fanfiction before becoming something independent...)

I've not read the work, but good luck with removing enough plot/character elements so as to avoid a Rigellian Hotshot.

Worked for John Grant...

(https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1179650367l/941898.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41KRDFKEWBL._SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_.jpg)

Quote from: Bolt-01 on 12 June, 2018, 08:55:12 AM
I've not read the work, but good luck with removing enough plot/character elements so as to avoid a Rigellian Hotshot.

That's the easy part.  Beyond using the names Eustace Fargo, President Gurney (once), only in the final chapter and epilogue, noting 2000AD and Rebellion's graciousness in the credits of the preface, and very-brief mention of the attack on the capital and subsequent trials (which I already changed the goal and underlying reasons of), finally mentioning Fargo's speeches to congress, there is nothing else.

Fargo is called "Cub" throughout.  'Street Judge' is only mentioned as a final line in the last chapter being:

"And so, with a bright flash and a single sharp report... the era of the Street Judge had begun."

My story was NOT about Fargo or the Street Judge system.  It was about correcting the flaws in the existing story line, without changing them or anything in the series, making it so it was plausible for that system change to occur.  More so, adding some life experience that will make it possible for 'Cub' to evolve into the man Fargo came to be.

The potential underlying plot in the 2000AD Fargo saga, was a great one IMO, yet never touched upon.  "What would make the U.S. population be willing to give up their civil rights (realistically), and what would cause a pampered Harvard law graduate, attorney and politician to be able to evolve into a 'field duty' law enforcement officer who could if need be take a life."

Those are massive leaps.

So the story was not about anything street judge or Fargo... yet about destroying a government and system of civil liberties and the forming of a man.  The names are inconsequential.

Also... It gave me a great opportunity to bash the hell out of Trump, over and over.  That was the most fun  :lol:

K2

Congratulations K2, I'm glad this worked out for you.

Quote from: sheridan on 12 June, 2018, 12:52:01 PM

Quote from: Bolt-01 on 12 June, 2018, 08:55:12 AM
... so this is like fifty shades of Dredd?

(Fifty shades of grey starting out (allegedly) as Twilight fanfiction before becoming something independent...)

I've not read the work, but good luck with removing enough plot/character elements so as to avoid a Rigellian Hotshot.

Worked for John Grant...

(https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1179650367l/941898.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41KRDFKEWBL._SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_.jpg)

Now there's a blast from the past. I remember reading the free chapter printed in the Megazine, and thinking it was dreadful.

Anyway, K2, fair play to you, glad it's all worked out well.

Well thanks fellas!;

As said, though it will be easy to change having been very careful to not alter or utilize any existing 2000AD material (just briefly referencing the most minor aspects, catch-words mostly), considering the amount of work, most of the feedback contained a common theme, "wasted."
(Though again, granted, all of the feedback came from those Dredd-ignorant).

Sure, it gives logical reason in correcting/answering those vast leaps, then again, perhaps no one wants them changed or cares, or to have that bit of the story told (at least by me).

I developed so much history that is set up to revise itself; the 'Mad Clown' causing the environment to be destroyed, yet now it's coming back, the 'new' government, a system of law enforcement that is worse than any other option, etc., that ultimately over the three novels it whittles down to 'being intentionally removed from history.'   Add to that the extensive appendices (equipment, gov.-terms, mapping, over-100 pidgin words, translations, etc.), and numerous chapters that not only outline events leading up to 2020, yet also psychological manipulation and so on.

So that leaves me with having to grind that down to a state of 2031 ignorance of it all (easy to do), and bring back the environment (easy), yet most of all simply fine tune Fargo of which there is little-nothing left to do... Or... I can use it to truly expand the initial work, not having it all end in 2031 to not infringe upon the 2000AD work.

In the end and perhaps most importantly, my impression is the die-hard Dredd fans don't want it messed with, fine with how it sits.  There is little interest in inspiring new Dredd fans who want to discover where it all goes.  And finally those who are not Dredd fans are more than happy to get into a new story, instead of being led to an existing one.

So it goes... *shrug*  Give the people what they want.

K2