The Political Thread

[Funt Solo]

Well, I never asked you to be entirely literal all the time.   And I didn't argue that there wasn't a lack of empathy inherent in fox-hunting.  And I never said that some upper class people aren't anti-immigration. 

I was taken aback (and worried about the health of the debate) when you equated hunting a wild animal with hunting a human, to the extent that you said they only hunt foxes because they aren't allowed to hunt humans.  If you were exaggerating for effect (which wasn't clear by any means), then you shouldn't be surprised when it works and has an effect.

My main thought on the fox-hunting is that those selfsame people only do it because it's (more) illegal to hunt immigrants. For now.

I only responded after that because Phoncible P. Bear decided it would be fun to pour petrol all over the aristocracy by calling them Nazis and pedophiles.  He's hilarious: so much so that I need a sticky note to remind me.

[Tjm86]

What I personally find most disturbing about where we are at present is that the every real concerns of the most vulnerable in society have been grossly distorted and utilised in the service of the needs of those who have created the conditions for some of these ideas to evolve.  2008  began a process in which the state was progressively rolled back, the support of those with greatest need was assaulted and the gains of those in the strongest positions were entrenched.  The referendum campaign piggybacked on the anger and discontent, or rather distorted and abused it.  Two years on, it has become talismanic despite its tainted nature.

The aristocracy / elite of this nation may not be full on national socialists or paedophiles (and for f***s sake can we stop using the latter as a casual insult since they are anything but human) but they are definitely calculated and devious bastards who care absolutely nothing for the interests of the population as a whole.  Let's face it, we are talking about a group of individuals who are essentially descended from the most devious and calculating bullies on the block.   HRH Mrs Windsor is descended from the biggest of them all.  These are individuals responsible for some of the greatest atrocities in history.  The national socialists made only one mistake compared to some of this crowd; they lost.  The aristocracy of this country built a nation on trade in human beings and exploitation of the resources of other nations and the people of this nation.

It is understandable that so many have given up on the political process and embraced extremist ideologies. After all, politicians have given up on them.  Other than the vague pretence at concern every 5 years (or more frequently if it serves the interests of the ruling party) as a rule politicians really don't give a damn.  The current political crisis is solely down to the utterly inept attempt by Cameron to consolidate his position of power so what else is there to say?

[sheridan]

On a related note, blaming the upper classes for Brexit (or anti-immigration) is just odd as all get out, given that the referendum was won by over 50%.  They're hardly upper class if they make up over half the country.

The leave vote don't make up over half the country (and the referendum wasn't won by over 50%).  37% of the electorate voted leave, 35% voted remain.  That's after the right to vote was taken away from many people (due to recent reforms to the electoral system).

[Funt Solo]

The referendum was won by over 50% of those that voted.  I could just as easily say "they're hardly upper class if they make up 37% of the country".  Perhaps 6%.

My general point is that it's weird (i.e. too easy, lazy & factually incorrect) to blame the upper classes (or even specifically fox-hunters) for Brexit (or anti-immigration generally), when it's a cross-class thing.  Those 37% can't all claim to have been brain-washed by Boris and Rees-Mogg.

Notice Tjm86 and the casual bigotry of "as a rule politicians really don't give a damn".  How can politicians become a hive entity who are all devoid of care?  How can there be a homogeneous aristocracy who are allsociopaths?

[The Legendary Shark]

Have you noticed the type of people that are cheerleading these attitudes from the political arena?

Step One: Locate a useful idiot (Tommy Robinson, for example).

Step Two: Fund, encourage and spotlight the useful idiot.

Step Three: Make the useful idiot the face of something ("Leave," for example), thereby spreading the fallacious opinion of guilt by association. If I now support Leave, it must be because I am like the useful idiot - an ignorant bigot - and any arguments I make will be seen in that light. For example, if I argued that it might be wise to curb immigration due to the failing nature of this country's public services, said argument can be characterised as racist and/or xenophobic instead of practical.

Step Four: Sit back and maintain the status quo while the general public squabble over which useful idiot is the One True Messiah and ignore what's going on.

.

When it comes to fox hunting, it's not something that upsets me very much. That's not to say I support it, fox hunting is an activity I don't want any part of, but I'd rather see us concentrating on banning war. Indeed, I'd be content to see these people continue fox hunting if only they'd stop raping and destroying other nations. I'd call that a fair, if somewhat disappointing, swap.

[Professor Bear]

I do think it's weird of late how some supposedly liberal commentators are now defending the monarchy's wealth and the means by which they acquired it simply because they see members of the left questioning it.
Reassuringly, that defence takes the form of faux-outrage at the left's "extreme position" on a matter it doesn't properly comprehend, so at least you know that outrage is manufactured.  #NotAllWealthyElites

[Tjm86]

.... while the general public squabble over which useful idiot is the One True Messiah and ignore what's going on.

He's not the Messiah, he's just a very naughty boy!

[The Legendary Shark]

Are you a virgin?

[Tjm86]

If it's not a personal question?  How much more personal can you get?

[Funt Solo]

Bercow clarifies that his wife is not chattel.

[IndigoPrime]

He handled that superbly, and has been on fire all day. Bercow will be sorely missed when he steps down post-Brexit, and I do hope the next speaker has his ability to deal with what's become a house driven by a rotten executive.

[Funt Solo]

One woman escapes from Saudi Arabia's gender caste system.

Another woman funds Saudi Arabia's gender caste system.

[Dandontdare]

The west's support of Saudi Arabia has always infuriated me - I've heard decades of speeches about why we need to go to war against people who shun democracy and abuse their own people, and yet we are slaves to a regime with zero democracy, who hold half their population in virtual slavery and who are currently committing horrific war crimes against the population of a weaker neighbour (with British arms)

Beyond the obvious 'oil money' argument I could never understand how this relationship had come to pass - check out Richard Curtis' documentary Bitter Lake - it recounts how FDR established the partnership for short  term political ends, and how the right-wing US neocons and the extremist Wahhabi jihadists are so very similar in origin and intentions.

[Funt Solo]

Gillette advert made me go a bit weepy.  I never imagined that would happen.

[Hawkmumbler]

202 to 432. Ouch.