Current TV Boxset Addiction

[pictsy]

I wouldn't call it gymnastics. Obiwan never owned R2D2 and plays it coy in A new hope. Just like Yoda does in Empire strikes back. Both in order to use Luke against Vader in Return of the Jedi.

What I mean by mental gymnastics is having interpretations outside the text of media to reconcile the various retcons and inconsistencies between the trilogies.  Essentially, it's not in the text of the films or shows, it's us, the viewer, that has to make the reconciliation.  I prefer to not do that.  It's like having a scab I can pick at.

This may have come from reading the novelisations of the original trilogy and the book that would have potentially been the sequel to "episode 4" giving me some additional insight into where the direction of Star Wars was going back in the late seventies and early eighties.  I really like the idea that Vader is a guy who killed Luke's father, Leia is a Princess Luke helped rescue and not his sister and the suggestion (from the original Solo trilogy of books iirc) that the Clone Wars was something to do with the Mandalorians.

I've never really been that big a fan of the Star Wars films anyway.  I always loved the setting.  I think I was just disappointed that the prequels failed to expand things in a way I found enjoyable.  CW does get that going at points and certainly in the later seasons.  Rebels, Rogue One, Solo, The Mandalorian... these things definitely satisfy me.  I guess I have become a Star Wars fan, just not of the main movies.

That all said, I don't mind any interpretations that make the Jedi look like space arseholes. 

I've yet to watch SW: Rebels, but I plan to. Does it have a good amount of [spoiler]Ashoka, Maul and Rex[/spoiler]? 

They all appear and have good roles.  [spoiler]I'd say that Maul's stuff is very satisfying and I thoroughly enjoyed the conclusion to his story for a few different reasons.[/spoiler]

Oh, and given that I mentioned it, those Solo books were really fun to read.  The novelisations and Splinter of the Minds Eye were largely badly written and laughable, but the Solo books were good space opera adventure romps.  If that's your cup of tea, I recommend them highly.

[Professor Bear]

Obi Wan doesn't remember owning R2 for the same reason he was staggering around the desert screaming before he came across Luke and the lads - he'd spent the last 20 years drunk off his ass.  Circa 1976, you don't cast Alec Guinness accidentally.

And I agree Lucas was taking a risk with TPM and the general approach of going down the prequel route, as he'd already played it safe with Shadows Of The Empire, which was a really big deal at the time and proved that demand was not only high for sequels to the original trilogy, but that Lucas had given some thought to how a project would go forward without having to pay what Harrison Ford would have cost around the mid-90s.

[pictsy]

I started Buffy the Vampire Slayer yesterday.  First episode is ropey.  I always find it a rough start with this series, but I also now know that it will get better and more entertaining.  Having access to the SD versions is nice as well.  The last couple of times I watched it, it was the widescreen version and it is obvious that it wasn't intended to be in widescreen (with the exception of Once More, With Feeling).

[Colin YNWA]

I keep asking, "hey, Kenobi... why don't you remember R2D2, eh? 

My take is that he does remember R2.  But think of how he encounters him: there's an Imperial Star Destroyer in orbit blowing stuff up - and suddenly here's Luke, injured, apparently lured to his desert hideaway by what looks a hell of a lot like Anakin's old astromech. What's going on? ...
And after all, he never did own Artoo, or any other property at all really, so his story's true, from a certain point of view.

I am sorry, but I don't find that take compelling. 

Knew there was a discussion about this somwhere and don't worry I got this. Me and the boy child have just started to watch New Hope (Star Wars proper as I like to call it) in our rewatch and I paid particular attention to this bit - in fact much to the boys annoyance I watched it twice.

Anyway Ben says this line while looking, quite pointedly, at R2. So I'm able to project the fact that he's just controlling the message. As Tordelback points out there's a lot going on. Ben recognises R2, R2 has been jibberjabbering and Ben needs time to work out what's happening and what Luke does or doesn't need to know at this point. So the line is directed at R2 though obliquely, basically saying - Shout the chuff up - don't way anything else and follow my lead - This buys him the time to work out what Luke does or doesn't need to know and what to be a liar, liar pants on fire about.

I'm happy with that reading and I'm out of here in case some one uses sense and logic to discredit it...

[pictsy]

I like to call that film Star Wars.  The episode 4 and A New Hope thing never really settled with me.  I grew up calling it Star Wars and it still feels weird not calling it Star Wars.  Unfortunately it can get confusing now, calling it Star Wars.  So I feel weird talking about it.

Err, I also have a take on Kenobi's deception being entirely unnecessary and ultimate ended with disastrous consequences for Luke and his friends.  Or how Luke's attachment to Kenobi and initiation to the force is silly given the short length of time they actually knew each other.  Or how it's really weird that they ended up ret-conning things to have Leia kiss her brother and be tortured by her father.  Or how Han Solo negs her.

[Professor Bear]

Luke knows who "Old Ben" is when he first sees Leia's message, so clearly he knows Ben very well if he can see through the intricate cover story and disguise that Obi-Wan has been utilising all the years he's been on Tattoine in order to suss out that when Leia says "Obi Wan Kenobi", she actually means "Ben Kenobi".

Obviously, a lot of the connective strands have been established retroactively in the movies, cartoons, novels, games, etc, but taking A New Hope in isolation, we discover that Ben knew Luke's dad - apparently quite well - and he's living a stone's throw from Luke's house, and of all the people on the planet, Luke knows who Ben is.  Plus the droids important to the outcome of the struggle between space fascism and space communism wash up at the door of the son of a Jedi knight who was central to the events that shaped the existing galactic order?  Even if Star Wars The Movie was as far as this franchise ever went, Lucas was already painting a picture of a very small galaxy.

[Apestrife]

What I mean by mental gymnastics is having interpretations outside the text of media to reconcile the various retcons and inconsistencies between the trilogies.

I came up with said interpretation of Obi binging the Special editions of ep 4-6 on VHS at the age of 10. Still holds true to me after watching the Prequels as well as the CW series. Never read the books outside one or two single issues of SW comics by dark horse.

But enough of that. --Hope you enjoy the SW you like as much as I do 

That all said, I don't mind any interpretations that make the Jedi look like space arseholes.

I'm all for it hehe. Why like SW:CW so much. I always liked to think of Anakin as someone who remained a slave both as a kid, Jedi and Sith (up till he saves his son Luke). I feel similarly for the clone troopers. Especially Rex. Really liked his arc. Must rewatch the Umbara episodes soon.

They all appear and have good roles.  [spoiler]I'd say that Maul's stuff is very satisfying and I thoroughly enjoyed the conclusion to his story for a few different reasons. [/spoiler]

Thanks. Nice to hear. I'll make sure to at least watch those episodes then. Then I might watch the rest

[Tiplodocus]

"I don't recall ever owning a droid"

So In I Wan worked with a droid for a couple of years some twenty years ago. I can't remember the names of actual humans I worked with 10 years sgo for over five years.

And I slept with some of them.

[Tiplodocus]

(The Last bit is a joke)

[Dandontdare]

I started Buffy the Vampire Slayer yesterday.  First episode is ropey.  I always find it a rough start with this series, but I also now know that it will get better and more entertaining.  Having access to the SD versions is nice as well.  The last couple of times I watched it, it was the widescreen version and it is obvious that it wasn't intended to be in widescreen (with the exception of Once More, With Feeling).

I did a Buffy rewatch last year, first time since it'd been on telly, and it really is a wonderful body of work. Almost went off the rails with the Adam storyline, but pulled it back. Although I followed it just as avidly at the time, I never got through my Angel rewatch - turned out that all the good stuff I thought was spread over several seasons was all contained in S:1-2, and I found I really didn't care to revisit the later storylines.

I like to call that film Star Wars.  The episode 4 and A New Hope thing never really settled with me.  I grew up calling it Star Wars and it still feels weird not calling it Star Wars.  Unfortunately it can get confusing now, calling it Star Wars.  So I feel weird talking about it.

We should start a movement/support group. I refuse to call it A New Hope. It's called Star Wars, I distinctly remember that being on the posters at the time.

[pictsy]

I did a Buffy rewatch last year, first time since it'd been on telly, and it really is a wonderful body of work. Almost went off the rails with the Adam storyline, but pulled it back. Although I followed it just as avidly at the time, I never got through my Angel rewatch - turned out that all the good stuff I thought was spread over several seasons was all contained in S:1-2, and I found I really didn't care to revisit the later storylines.

I've rewatched it every 1 or 2 years for the last ten years.  The Adam season is weak and is definitely the hump of the series.  It does have my favourite season finale, though.  It's like after enduring it all I get a special little treat as a reward.
I've watched Angel all the way through once and tried again another two times.  I find it gets tedious pretty quickly.  The Jasmine story arc is just awful and I have no desire to ever watch Angel again.  It sucks (geddit?).

[wedgeski]

I really don't know which one of us giving Lucas too much credit.  If he was serious and thoughtful about making TPM good then he failed hard.

I'm just left with the impression of a man that is less concerned with what would work best creatively over what would sell better.  Also, the most vivid thing I remember about 1999 was the toys.  There were so many toys.  There were too many toys.  So many toys.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.  We don't know the motivations of the man.  I know I don't respect him as a creative and I think he is very wrong about a lot of things.

Failure is not a always a result of bad motivations. It is possible to be serious and thoughtful and still fail.

[JamesC]

Just like the Jedi.

[pictsy]

I really don't know which one of us giving Lucas too much credit.  If he was serious and thoughtful about making TPM good then he failed hard.

I'm just left with the impression of a man that is less concerned with what would work best creatively over what would sell better.  Also, the most vivid thing I remember about 1999 was the toys.  There were so many toys.  There were too many toys.  So many toys.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.  We don't know the motivations of the man.  I know I don't respect him as a creative and I think he is very wrong about a lot of things.

Failure is not a always a result of bad motivations. It is possible to be serious and thoughtful and still fail.

I seem to have left you with entirely the wrong impression.  It was not my intention to convey the notion that it is not possible to be serious and thoughtful and still fail.  Largely the opposite.  My position was that if Tordel was correct about Lucas' intentions then Lucas failed.  Nor was I suggesting that failure is a result of... well, I'm not sure I called them bad motivations... cynical, sure.

I hope that clarifies things

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I've always felt that the problems with the prequels was that Lucas tried to make an entire movie in post production. He was so enthusiastic about using the new fangled CGI he neglected the rest, and didn't delegate enough.

In preproduction, he needed to polish his script more. He should have built more complete sets instead of hanging up some green drapes.

This had a knock on effect to the shoot, where actors had to wrangle awkward dialogue while having very little to physically interact with. It seems like Lucas just wanted dialogue shots in the can as quickly as possible, which must have been challenging for the cast, it certainly looks that way because some very fine actors gave dodgy performances.

So when Lucas finally got to the bit he wanted to do the most, with all the shiney spaceships and sumptuous CGI sets, it was too late. It doesn't matter how cool the stuff projected on the green screen looks, because the actual important stuff, the characters and what they're saying, is just flat soap opera style shot/reverse shot scenes. There might be a cool vista of Coruscant out the window, but our characters are just sitting on a sofa. They might be walking through a huge impressive Jedi Temple, but their movements are slightly off because the actors weren't sure how big a space they had to move about in, again the shot is a bit flat. In a real set, a director can work out interesting angles blocking by walking around making two "L" shapes with his fingers and thumbs, but Lucas was just pointing a camera at some people in front of a green screen.

Any scene that wasn't action was flat and boring with some background CGI noise thrown in. Then the action scenes tended to be all CGI noise.

All of this is not to say CGI is bad. I think Lucas accelerated the advance of cinema CGI by over a decade. I remember before the prequels, directors would tout how many scenes/minutes of their movies contained CGI effects. After Clone Wars, that seemed to be a redundant boast. I think the Lucas' problem was he was so preoccupied with making things look real in CGI, he forgot to make those things tell a good story.

I'm not a prequels hater, but I'm in no hurry to watch them again.