Pat Mills on Dan Dare

[The Legendary Shark]

Here's a brief email exchange between Mr Mills and me that might generate some interest:

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Morning, Mark,

I wrote this item for my Facebook.  Thought it might be of interest to you, too.  Feel free to pass it on.

It's not an ideal solution, but seems a shame that none of that artwork has been reprinted.

Best

Pat


DAN DARE IN 2000AD

Long term  2000AD readers may have wondered why those early Dan Dares by Bellardinelli and  Dave Gibbons have never been reprinted. 

I can shed a little light on this - it's because the name 'Dan Dare" is owned by another company who own the DD rights.

I've noticed that the early 2000AD trade paperback collections sell very well and I'm sure Dan Dare would be no exception, so I offered this suggestion to Rebellion:  How about if the logo was taken off the story and the name  "Dare"  deleted in the dialogue and where it appears in the art.  It could be replaced - where necessary - by "Commander"   and a title like Space Commander used instead;   with a subtitle like  "Journey to Jupiter" for the first story.

Obviously some of the  later DD's by Dave Gibbons which featured the Mekon couldn't be included; but I think it still leaves quite a number of stories and pages.

On the plus side,  the drawback to  those 2000AD DD  stories was that they had no connection  whatsoever  with the original Hampson DD universe and  thus could be read as space stories in their own right. Also,  I remember they were popular when they first appeared  - although never a "number one" story.

When I talked to Rebellion, they could see where I was coming from, but I doubt they'll do anything because it's uncharted publishing territory and there may be all kinds of drawbacks  I haven't anticipated.  And   it wouldnt be much fun for the art editor either, ploughing through all those pages and deleting  the name "Dan"  etc.

Anyway,  I thought I'd mention it in case anyone felt it would work for them, or they can see a better solution.    If so, I'll be sure to pass your comments onto Rebellion.  I guess if there was enough interest they might be persuaded to go for it.

Personally, I'd love to see some of those amazing spreads by Bellardinelli again - especially  London of the Future  where the city has been greened, there are animals grazing near Big Ben  and teleport stations have replaced the London Underground.

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Hi Pat,

That's a great idea and it does seem a crime to lose such beautiful work simply because of 'rights'.

My initial suggestion is to maybe pass the preparation phase of this project over to the small-press creators. If proper quality digital scans of the original artwork are available, there are plenty of letterers out there who could make a fine job of replacing the dialogue - which would also give the opportunity for you (or a writer of your choice) to wholly or partially rewrite all the speech bubbles and captions. Photoshop-savvy small press artists could alter the artwork details where necessary and I guess you could still use the Mekon by turning his skin red, making him the ruler of Nevus and calling him the Kemon or something. Once this has been done it can then be given over to Rebellion for them to print as a GN or present bagged with the Megazine or even (with the proper creator authorizations) self-published on Lulu. It could also, perhaps, be presented in its original episodic form as the main strip in a new or existing small-press comic, maybe one ostensibly run by professionals with the aim of developing new talent.

Anyway, that's just me thinking aloud.

Would it be okay for me to copy what you've written here over to the 2000ADonline website or would that be awkward for you or Rebellion?

Thanks for emailing me with this idea, Pat, I appreciate you taking the time. I'll certainly bring it up in the weekly chat tonight - to which you are, as always, invited if you fancy popping in for a bit.

Hoping all is well with you and yours.

Best,

Mark

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Hi, Mark,

I think it would be great to include my thoughts on DD  on the 2000AD website as if there was enough interest it's just possible Rebellion might go for it.    Many thanks.  Knowing Rebellion, I couldn't see them passing it out to a small press, they'd probably arrange it "in-house"   and the license holder for Dan Dare would guard against any variant on the Mekon, I'm afraid.
   
I've added some further thoughts on DD which are worth adding  as they anticipate further changes that would be  needed.
 
Be interested to know what people think.

Currently  playing truant from work by writing this, so will have to pass on the talk-in, but thanks for invite!

Best

Pat

>
>  FURTHER THOUGHTS ON DAN DARE
> Yes, there would be problems reprinting 2000AD's Dan Dare - but not impossible if there was enough interest.  After all, Dredd Cursed Earth appeared minus the Burger Wars.   

What prompted me was I heard  Meltdown Man sold extremely well, so surely Bellardinelli's  Dan Dare would do the same.   But the eyebrows, the Eagle and the Mekon would have to go  - unless Rebellion paid for the use of the title.  But I suspect the  DD  license holder would not be keen  as he  might consider it detracts from the orthodox Dare, especially as the character was recently film optioned - by Warner Brothers, I believe.
> 
> All in all,  reprinting 2000AD's Dare is a  problem - but it's such a shame when great art doesn't see the light of day.

> I'd  also forgotten about my  New Eagle Dan Dare story.   Excellent art by Ian Kennedy.   That would be Egmont  who own the stories and art, if not the rights to the name and images,   which means Titan Books might consider it.  I'll certainly mention it to to them.   

>  Incidentally,   a couple of years back, I heard there was interest in  the life of Frank Hampson as a  BBC tv doc drama, but haven't heard anymore  so suspect that's on hold. 

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Over to you!

[Emperor]

It is a tricky one, but Jim Campbell has shown what he can do updated and re-lettering a script so it isn't impossible.

However, I can't see this working too well - even if they managed to file the serial numbers off it was published as Dan Dare and the current owners of the property would have trouble looking the other way (as they might do with a new story). Just the risk they might take this to court would be enough to put off anyone who doesn't have deep pockets.

I personally don't see that there is a major hurdle here though - they've recently reprinted the Stainless Steel Rat even though they must have lost the license many moons ago, Rian Hughes got permission to reprint Dare in his Yesterday's Tomorrows (a story which I believe was much more controversial and likely to damage the Dare property but got a trade collection back in 1991) and back in 1997 as part of 20th anniversary they reprinted prog 1 including Dan Dare and did  "The Return of Dan Dare" in 3000AD.

So I doubt it is impossible and requires any trickery to get it all back into print, it might just take a bit of negotiation and could take some time, but I wouldn't be that surprised if it suddenly entered the schedules from out of the blue at some point, like the Stainless Steel Rat.

[Dandontdare]

If you had to take out "the eyebrows, the Eagle and the Mekon" and rename it as Pat suggests, I wonder if it would be worth doing at all. I think a better approach would be to negotiate a full reprint, though I'm clueles as to whther this would be prohibitively expensive. I know the family guard the IP closely, but it may be easier to reprint a long established strip that is a known quantity than negotiating a new project.

kinda reminds me of those Dr Who strips when they recycled old Pertwee stories and just added dark curly hair to make him look a bit like Tom baker

[Colin YNWA]

Yeah the fact that Rian Hughes managed to reprint the Dare stories suggests that there is a solution. Well on paper at least. The fact that if there was such an easy solution Rebellion would have surely done it by now? Was the Dare stuff done under a different license, or have built into ways of avoiding the problem?

Either way a compromise would be something I'd be very interested in seeing as otherwise I'll have to finally pluck up the courage and go for getting the early issues. If I get the Dare stuff I have all the material (well until the future shocks start) and can put it off a bit longer!

[Professor Bear]

Doesn't sound like a totally mad idea, and Gibbons might be amenable to altering the Mekon into something else given it means more royalty payments in the long run.  Otherwise I would wonder if the potential audience interest for such a project would justify the effort involved in getting it printed, as if you're going to alter the original project to a significant degree I don't think you can claim you're helping preserve it for artistic reasons anymore, and some measure of that audience interest may derive from seeing a different take on DD rather than some generic space adventure.

Not sure about small pressers doing the legwork, as a restoration/alteration job like that for an actual company to make money off of somewhere down the line should be a paying gig.

However, I can't see this working too well - even if they managed to file the serial numbers off it was published as Dan Dare and the current owners of the property would have trouble looking the other way (as they might do with a new story). Just the risk they might take this to court would be enough to put off anyone who doesn't have deep pockets.

The Dan Dare Corporation isn't remotely as litigious as Egmont were when they owned the property, and has endorsed new Dare strips appearing in Spaceship Away magazine http://www.spaceshipaway.org.uk/.  After the original strips, the 2000ad version, the 1980s Eagle version, the computer games, cartoons, and Grant Morrison/Garth Ennis reboots, I think they might concede that the property can survive a reprint, and would likely welcome the publicity - again, unlike Egmont, DDC seems to like their property to actually be making money.

[IndigoPrime]

I suspect Dan Dare Corporation is a quite small organisation. In the past when I've dealt with them, they've varied from essentially threatening to sue me for including anything of their IP in an article without actual payment through to being extremely friendly and generous regarding what was allowed.

Regarding 2000 AD Dare, I see where Mills is coming from, but I don't see the point in costly amendments when it would probably be simpler and just as cost-effective to negotiate with DDC to reprint the original tale. I suspect the reason this hasn't happened is because 2000 AD ends on a cliffhanger and therefore appears incomplete. But if Hughes can do it in Yesterday's Tomorrows (while, infuriatingly, relettering the thing with myriad typos), Rebellion could too.

[Spikes]

Other than to see Massimo and Dave's art again - for those that dont have the old progs at hand, what would be the point to this?
Sorry, but this sounds like a really awful idea.

[Richard]

I thought the point was to see Massimo and Dave's art again...

[maryanddavid]

The problem with this whole idea is that the DDC not only own the name and trademark, they own the art too. Permission will be needed to reproduce the art.

From my personal dealings with DDC and Egmont, Egmont are far more eager to get their back catalogue published.
As far as Im aware Spaceships away pay to use DD and the DDC closed doen the Excellent fanzine Eagle flies again.
DDC thing all of their catalogue has the same value as the classic Hampson ears, and are therefore looking for too much to licence their material.

David

[Spikes]

I thought the point was to see Massimo and Dave's art again...

Well yes,  my mangled syntax strikes again.
but if the only way it can be seen again is to massively alter it, then why bother?
Either do a deal with the owners, or track down the back progs.

[a chosen rider]

Frankly, even if it might be technically legal to republish under those circumstances - which I kind of doubt - it's a gross violation of the spirit of the rights agreement entered into and surely not a good idea all round.  Altering the content of a creative work for no other purpose than to cut out a rights-holder who would otherwise have a say in what's done with it really doesn't seem like reputable publishing behaviour.

And I'm not at all convinced that legal rights over an existing creative work that's already been published and sold as a Dan Dare product can possibly be as simple as "they only own the trademarked bits, chop those out and the rest is ours".  Let's all take a trip to bizarro-world and imagine Judge Fred is a creator-owned project belonging to Jon Bagner and Carl S. Quirrel, which has become hugely famous on the strength of their shared work.  Should Bagner be entitled to hand his original scripts over to a different artist, get them to redraw the same stories, and then be able to sell those without having to consult or compensate Carl because "he only owned the art", ignoring any part said art did in creating an audience for the new books that he's selling?

The fact that these works were historically Dan Dare comics is not something that can be scrubbed off by pasting replacement content over the trademarked bits.  They were sold as Dan Dare comics, people remember that they were originally Dan Dare comics, and some percentage of prospective buyers will want the reprints because they read the originals after the Dan Dare name lured them in.  Removing the name doesn't remove the influence that it had on the past success of the strip and the work that it did in creating an audience of prospective buyers for any such reprints.

If Dan Dare's owners want more for the rights than Rebellion think it reasonable/economical to pay, well, that definitely sucks for people who want to see the work reprinted, but it's their prerogative to be able to demand what they want or veto accordingly.  They own some of the IP that helped make a collaborative project a success, they get to decide whether they do or don't want to accept a given deal for further exploitation of their property.  I don't think we should really be encouraging publishers to find creative ways to screw rights-holders out of benefitting from their ownership.

[BPP]

If the character was licensed at the start then his appearance will be (c) DDC and, unless a reprint right was negotiated, it would be impossible to use. So its not so much the 'art' they own (although again that could have been contracted with the original license) as the appearance of the character per se. Calling him 'Bob' won't get around the fact that the material was originally produced a Dan Dare license and remains such.


So its a dead in the water unless the (c) holder realises that in 20 years time Dan Dare is going to be worth zilch as 'the kids' don't give a fxxk.

[Steve Green]

I think 20 years is generous.

From what I've heard they seem to overvalue the IPs relevance greatly.

[glassstanley]

This was the approach that led the Megazine to reprint the Wagner/Grant/Ezquerra strip (forget the title). Lobo was redrawn and renamed Asbo.

I don't personally see the point with Dan Dare, though. Especially as the Mekon appears from issue 12, and would require Belardinelli's artwork to be redrawn, which rather defeats the purpose.

[JOE SOAP]

Just reprint the damn thing and finish out the story.