Just wracking my brains trying to think of any. Films like Goodfellas, Apocalypse Now, On the Waterfront etc; the ones that will be remembered for years to come as classics. Not cult classics or anything, much as I'd love Dredd to be remembered as groundbreaking cinema, but the ones that'll go down in history as being among the most important of their age.
I'm kind of stumped - I really liked Joker, but I think it may be a wee bit too derivative of old Scorsese stuff to be considered a classic. The Irishman maybe? For me it was a great watch, but well, like Goodfellas but not as good.
There's something staring me in the face that I'm not remembering.
Raiders of the Lost Ark?
Die Hard?
Mad Max II?
Alien?
The one with the farm boy and the wheezy guy?
Blade Runner?
12 Monkeys?
Jaws?
The Life of Brian?
Avatar?
The City of Lost Children?
We're slewed out with classics, I think.
I think there's a fairly broad consensus that Mad Max Fury Road is a landmark of action cinema, and I think a lot of The Dark Knight is pretty iconic - it's insane that that movie is over 12 years old at this point and is still pretty indelible in the popular discourse vs most other superhero type movies.
However, I just in general think those truly iconic, enduring kinds of 'grown up' movies you mention are pretty much a thing of the past nowadays due to the fragmentation of media and the death of the monoculture. You could make an argument that Pulp Fiction was maybe the last one?
It's the same reason we'll never again see a pop artist as big as Michael Jackson or Madonna at their peak, or an athlete as famous as Michael Jordan.
At a stretch possibly Get Out and There Will Be Blood? Maybe The Wolf of Wall Street?
I guess there was a time when people knew all about gladiators; gladiatorial nerds. Now we've condensed all that knowledge, in the modern mind, to just two names; Spartacus and Gladiator. A few people know a great deal about them but still not what the original nerds knew - the rest of us don't really care.
It may be the same in two thousand years, with a few scholars knowing the most about them but none of them anywhere near as much as us. The rest will be much more interested in things we can't even imagine.
I wonder what would be the common Spartacus of that future. Instead of Gladiator and Spartacus, it might be Film and... what?
How recent, Jayzus? I always think of Children of Men as a recent classic, but it's about 15 years old now... Fury Road is the most recent complete gobsmacker that I can think of.
'Course both are genre flicks, but I'd argue that gangster movies are a genre too...
Radiator got there before me, but Mad Max: Fury Road (https://youtu.be/UtjGTrVwRr4) is on another plane of existence in terms of action movie awesomeness. (Americans notoriously overuse "awesome", to refer to things like hotdogs or nachos, but Fury Road actually engenders awe.)
Also mentioned was The Irishman, and you just have to watch the "You're late!" (https://youtu.be/gaa_5m3cmSc) scene to skim the surface of genius. I had a friend who couldn't watch this because they found it too boring - and it just makes me question the friendship. It's like maybe they're a pod person or something.
Also plenty of very noteworthy movies that I'd argue will stand the test of time and belong in some top lists - Knives Out, Gravity, Moon, Midnight Special, The Shape of Water, Under the Skin, The Babadook & Ex Machina.
I love Moon. Sam Rockwell is my Hollywood boyfriend. (Michael Shannon is my Hollywood uncle. After Bill Paxton died, I felt bereft, but Shannon is stepping up.)
Special mention for classic television: Wolf Hall.
If comedy is allowed, might offer up Hot Fuzz as a contender. A perfect piece of clockwork (I think World's End is actually the better film, but there's something about the precision of HF that makes me think 'modern marvel').
No need to be parochial.
In the past few years there are plenty of what will be recognised as classics from Asia: Parasite, Train to Busan being obvious examples.
There are many others that show the art is as rich as it's ever been, often better.
I took the OP to be asking about truly iconic movies - ones that really permeate the culture, become household names, spawn countless imitators and lines of dialogue that are referenced, homaged, quoted (and misquoted) ad nauseum "Make him an offer he can't refuse"/"I love the smell of napalm in the morning") and have these incredible stand out scenes that transcend the medium and will get parodied and meme-ified til the end of time.
My take is that while many magnificent films still come out every year, they just don't reach the kind of audience and cultural saturation as in the days when films could run in the cinema for an entire calendar year. I'd also hazard a guess that most people tend to rewatch movies a lot less these days, as there's always something new and shiny to dig into. Media is generally more disposable nowadays, and I'd speculate that cinema's days as the dominant form of media are on the way out.
I think the kind of thing the op is specifically asking about died out at the tail end of the 90s, with films like Titanic, The Shawshank Redemption, Good Will Hunting, Jerry Maguire, Pulp Fiction and The Usual Suspects being among the last few I can think of that really fall into this category. With the possible exception of Titanic, those kinds of films either wouldn't get made today or would be made as indie movies only seen by a tiny audience. Parasite was great no doubt - and a moderate box office hit - but I doubt the average man on the street would have even heard of it.
The closest modern phenomenon that comes the closest to that kind of pre death of monoculture cultural footprint would be something like Game of Thrones, and that isn't a movie.
Looking for ones that might fit the brief as having reached a wider audience and being a cultural touchstone, I'd include Avatar - although it's not really one that gets quoted. There's always The Matrix. Trying to stretch into the last decade, there's Frozen. How about The Force Awakens?
(https://images2.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED44/52adb398553f7.jpeg)
Quote from: radiator on 29 September, 2020, 09:04:30 PM
It's the same reason we'll never again see a pop artist as big as Michael Jackson or Madonna at their peak, or an athlete as famous as Michael Jordan.
I'd agree on the popstar front, but there have been several globally branded sporters since Jordan. I have no interest in Tennis, but I know Roger Federer is a Swiss man who is very good at it and that Serena Williams married that guy from Reddit. I actively dislike golf* but I know who Tiger Woods is.
I'd guess the majority of this forum don't really follow football, so you might not be aware that you can go almost anywhere in the world and spark a debate over whether Ronaldo or Messi is better**.
I agree on the Game of Thrones point. I think most classic entertainment of today will be TV shows.
Modern cinema is dominated by low risk super-franchises with solid brand recognition, committee designed to pull in as wide an audience as possible. Everything is PG12 now. A lot of the all time classics people are listing were rated hard 12 or 15. I remember constantly being frustrated in my early teens because all the movies I wanted to see were 15s.
*I understand that people like different things and that's fine, but fuck golf.
** I would argue that Ronaldo isn't even the best player called Ronaldo. If you knew football that would probably elicit a brief amused exhalation as you recall Fat Ronaldo
Quote from: radiator on 30 September, 2020, 03:35:10 AMParasite was great no doubt - and a moderate box office hit - but I doubt the average man on the street would have even heard of it.
I'd consider
Parasite which won the top 4 Academy awards and was well recognised in the press as being an exceptional work fits the
Jaysus criteria, not least for being the first foreign film to be so well regarded in the industry.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 29 September, 2020, 08:45:23 PM
Not cult classics or anything, much as I'd love Dredd to be remembered as groundbreaking cinema, but the ones that'll go down in history as being among the most important of their age.
Iconic classics of monoculture are films like
Avengers and
Guardians of the Galaxy. They're the
Raiders of the Lost Ark of the modern era.
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 30 September, 2020, 09:33:16 AM
Iconic classics of monoculture are films like Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy. They're the Raiders of the Lost Ark of the modern era.
Yep. The cultural reach of the Marvel movies is startling. I took m'lovely wife to a nice little French restaurant not long after Endgame came out. A pretty young waitress was serving an older couple (well into their 60s) at the next table, so none of them what you'd call your classic nerd demographic.
As part of the general chat, the couple said that they'd just come from the cinema after watching Endgame but didn't want to spoil it for her, to which she replied "Oh, I've seen it but I can't talk about it — I'm still too upset about Tony."
Quote from: Funt Solo on 30 September, 2020, 04:55:36 AM
Looking for ones that might fit the brief as having reached a wider audience and being a cultural touchstone, I'd include Avatar - although it's not really one that gets quoted. There's always The Matrix. Trying to stretch into the last decade, there's Frozen. How about The Force Awakens?
I was trying to define 'recent' and decided that 'this century' would have to do, which is as shame as I also thought of the Matrix, but the one which spawned all the memes was released at the tail-end of last century.
As for pop cultural memeage, the only film I could think of from this century (just) was Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring...
Hopefully I'll think of more.
Of 2020 films, I'd have to say The Lighthouse. If that's not an all time cult classic, then I don't know what is.
Quote from: sheridan on 30 September, 2020, 09:51:12 AMAs for pop cultural memeage, the only film I could think of from this century (just) was Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring...
Speaking of memeage, the Star Wars Prequels are the undisputed kings.
Quote from: radiator on 30 September, 2020, 03:35:10 AM
I took the OP to be asking about truly iconic movies - ones that really permeate the culture, become household names, spawn countless imitators and lines of dialogue that are referenced, homaged, quoted (and misquoted) ad nauseum "Make him an offer he can't refuse"/"I love the smell of napalm in the morning") and have these incredible stand out scenes that transcend the medium and will get parodied and meme-ified til the end of time.
My take is that while many magnificent films still come out every year, they just don't reach the kind of audience and cultural saturation as in the days when films could run in the cinema for an entire calendar year. I'd also hazard a guess that most people tend to rewatch movies a lot less these days, as there's always something new and shiny to dig into. Media is generally more disposable nowadays, and I'd speculate that cinema's days as the dominant form of media are on the way out.
I think the kind of thing the op is specifically asking about died out at the tail end of the 90s, with films like Titanic, The Shawshank Redemption, Good Will Hunting, Jerry Maguire, Pulp Fiction and The Usual Suspects being among the last few I can think of that really fall into this category. With the possible exception of Titanic, those kinds of films either wouldn't get made today or would be made as indie movies only seen by a tiny audience. Parasite was great no doubt - and a moderate box office hit - but I doubt the average man on the street would have even heard of it.
The closest modern phenomenon that comes the closest to that kind of pre death of monoculture cultural footprint would be something like Game of Thrones, and that isn't a movie.
Yep, that's exactly what I meant. I suppose I could have been a lot clearer now I look at my OP. Not really the cult classics -
Moon was brilliant but I really don't think it'll ever reach
2001 in terms of historical significance. I loved
Dredd and preferred it to
The Shawshank Redemption, but the latter will be remembered in top 20 lists in 50 years from now.
And by 'recent' - well, I suppose I didn't really know exactly what I meant there, so let's go with 'this century'.
Now you mention it, radiator, yeah, it's TV that's producing epic, classic stuff nowadays.
GoT, as you say, but also
Breaking Bad. The last series of
Twin Peaks. Even
Watchmen (sorry, Alan.) I've never seen
The Wire but believe I really, really should.
Not wishing to take away from past classics like the original
Twin Peaks,
The Powers of Matthew Star and of course
Scarecrow and Mrs King, but TV seems to be in a golden age right now.
Yes, you should see The Wire. It stands out as a unique insight into the problems plaguing a city, rather than being simply an entertaining cartoon fantasy like Breaking Bad, say.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 30 September, 2020, 02:39:09 PM
Yes, you should see The Wire. It stands out as a unique insight into the problems plaguing a city, rather than being simply an entertaining cartoon fantasy like Breaking Bad, say.
Yeah this absolutely - both superb in their own ways.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 30 September, 2020, 02:39:09 PM
Yes, you should see The Wire. It stands out as a unique insight into the problems plaguing a city, rather than being simply an entertaining cartoon fantasy like Breaking Bad, say.
Yep, everyone I know has seen it has said I need to watch it. Next on the list it is, so.
Not sure if you're being serious about Breaking Bad, but that's not how I saw it at all. For me it was psychodrama at its best - desperate situations driving minds to breaking point; intense pressure blasting out hidden natures like dynamite in a mine. It wasn't so much the social effects of Walt's actions that fascinated me, but rather his character - an affable and intelligent underachiever breaking through years of social conditioning to uncover the ruthless criminal mastermind that has always been there. Jesse, on the other hand, is just another wayward badboy who begins to realise that his badness doesn't hold a candle to Walt's.
I get that they both have depth, but one is grounded in fantasy - so the depth is metaphorical. Which isn't to say it isn't worthwhile.
The weird thing about The Wire is that it upset my expectations of what a television show could be - the second season removes us from our comfortable set of characters and tells a story about a different aspect of the city - and slowly we come to realize that the show is about the city - not about us being entertained by a gang that unrealistically stays together just because they've been hired by a show.
Imagine Friends (this is a stretch) where it's actually about who lives in the apartment next, or that the coffee shop has to close down and is replaced by a laundromat. The gang have gone their separate ways and found new circles of friends.
I can't believe I'm comparing Friends to The Wire.
I was only thinking about this the other day, but in terms of horror films. To me, there's nothing recent that even comes close to beating Carpenter's 'The Thing'. Maybe 'The Color from Outer Space' at a push, as it deals in a similar type of body horror.
I was watching 'Aliens' while I worked the other day, and it occurred to me there has not been a film since that so successfully combines such a superb ensemble of characters with sci-fi action and horror. Unless someone can remind me of something I may have missed?
I'll second the love for Children Of Men, and Fury Road. Absolute classics. Clive Owen is outstanding, and when i recently re-watched, i thought that there are so many people, at this moment in time, with Coronavirus etc. trudging about, unhappily like him. Ghosts.
For me, The Mist was a hell of a movie, with the most unbelievable, harrowing ending. I still think about what happens once the credits roll, and life returns to something resembling normal.
The Abyss is much maligned, but i think it is a masterclass in tension, and married with brilliant effects and amazing performances from a set of characters, some of whom you come to dislike, but still root for.
So many more, but i'll have to look at my collection once i'm home. No doubt be able to add a few more.
Children of Men, it would seem, is one for my list.
I'd say Children of Men, wonderful though it is, is firmly in the 'cult classic' box. It was a massive bomb when it came out and hardly anyone I know has seen it.
I think timing is a large part of the equation. If you think about it, what really crystallized all of these (predominantly) 70s, 80s and 90s movies as part of the classic canon was the advent of home video, and especially DVD.
A whole generation of budding film nerds were able to build up this huge back catalogue of Scorcese and Tarantino and Coppola, watch and rewatch them over and over and delve into the special features. We had a lot of choice back then, whereas today we arguably have too much choice, with streaming, reality TV, social media etc etc. Viewers tend to be more more fickle and attention spans are shorter so it's harder for stuff to really break through.
Re: the Marvel movies (and I'll probably catch a bit of flack for this) they're a lot of fun but they're almost their own genre unto themselves - a kind of hybrid of cinema, theme park ride and episodic TV. They're certainly very popular and the closest thing we have to classic golden era blockbusters in terms of cultural reach.... but to my mind there's something a bit generic and cookie cutter about them, and like most other modern blockbusters they're so fast-paced and so packed with visual effects and spectacle that few moments really stand out amongst all the noise. I'll concede that there are a handful, but I'd be really hard pressed to think of that many individual moments from all 20+ of them that come anywhere close to the pure movie magic of something as simple as Indy getting chased by the giant boulder in Raiders.
Ditto The Force Awakens. Are there any truly memorable/quotable scenes or set pieces in that entire movie? Or any of the modern SW or Jurassic Park films?
By contrast I think Breaking Bad is packed full of truly memorable images, quotes and dramatic moments.
Anchorman? Elf?
I know they are shit but people seem to love quoting them.
Elf is certainly a Christmas Classic.
This does not mean it's very good.
I think there's plenty of animated stuff that counts as classic. Toy Story and the like.
There are certainly British films which are culturally resonant, such as Love Actually, The Full Monty, Trainspotting.
Also, and it might just be my group of friends, but potentially dangerous situations are often described as being like Final Destination (and it almost always gets mentioned at airports and on motorways).
Similarly, layered and complex situations or anecdotes are often described as being like Inception (that's one I've heard used in interviews too).
I'm gonna hold my hand up and say that I think Elf is actually pretty great. I avoided watching it for years because I thought it looked terrible from the trailer and I'm somewhat ambivalent about Will Ferrell, but when I finally watched it I loved it. Watch it every year now.
It's shame that cinematic comedies are pretty much dead - there's nothing quite like seeing a big comedy with a packed audience. I think the last one with any kind of broad appeal and enduring cultural relevance was probably Bridesmaids, which is nearly ten years old now. I think people get their comedy from other sources these days.
QuoteI think there's plenty of animated stuff that counts as classic. Toy Story and the like.
There are certainly British films which are culturally resonant, such as Love Actually, The Full Monty, Trainspotting.
Very true - however almost all of those you mention are well over twenty years old. Good shout with Pixar though - I think a lot of their films reach the bar for 'timeless classic', especially ones like Up and Wall-E.
Makes me wonder what the last
really big, internationally successful British film was. Maybe Slumdog Millionaire? The King's Speech?
QuoteSimilarly, layered and complex situations or anecdotes are often described as being like Inception (that's one I've heard used in interviews too).
Yeah - I'd say Chris Nolan is one of the last few 'big name' directors who pretty much have a blank check with what they get to make and whose name is itself is enough to sell a big movie. As I said earlier I think The Dark Knight is easily the most iconic superhero of the modern era.
I think another point is that almost all of the 'classic' movie moments we think of are from wholly original movies - bit harder to replicate the novelty when almost everything nowadays is a prequel, sequel, reboot, remake or an adaptation of an already wildly popular book series*
*and yes, I know The Godfather, Apocalypse Now and Goodfellas are all technically book adaptations, but it's a bit different to something like Harry Potter, The Hunger Games or Fifty Shades of Grey where the filmmakers just have to make a slavish, box-ticking adaptation for a massive built-in audience.
We Need to Talk About Kevin and Boyhood both stick in my mind as films that I was absolutely gobsmacked by when I left the cinema. I'm also a fan of Nicolas Winding Refn, but also aware he's a very Marmite kind of film-maker.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 30 September, 2020, 09:30:34 AM
Quote from: radiator on 29 September, 2020, 09:04:30 PM
It's the same reason we'll never again see a pop artist as big as Michael Jackson or Madonna at their peak, or an athlete as famous as Michael Jordan.
I'd agree on the popstar front, but there have been several globally branded sporters since Jordan. I have no interest in Tennis, but I know Roger Federer is a Swiss man who is very good at it and that Serena Williams married that guy from Reddit. I actively dislike golf* but I know who Tiger Woods is.
I'd guess the majority of this forum don't really follow football, so you might not be aware that you can go almost anywhere in the world and spark a debate over whether Ronaldo or Messi is better**.
I dunno man. I think it's hard to overstate just how
huge Michael Jordan was back in the day. He wasn't just world famous in the way Serena Williams or Tiger Woods are - he was an actual superstar. LeBron James is a big deal right now, but are people going to be wearing Nike Air James in 30 years time?
Just thought of another modern classic. I mean, it's twenty years old but it still feels modern to me.
The Blair Witch Project.
Quote from: radiator on 30 September, 2020, 08:04:41 PM
Quote from: Mister Pops on 30 September, 2020, 09:30:34 AM
Quote from: radiator on 29 September, 2020, 09:04:30 PM
It's the same reason we'll never again see a pop artist as big as Michael Jackson or Madonna at their peak, or an athlete as famous as Michael Jordan.
I'd agree on the popstar front, but there have been several globally branded sporters since Jordan. I have no interest in Tennis, but I know Roger Federer is a Swiss man who is very good at it and that Serena Williams married that guy from Reddit. I actively dislike golf* but I know who Tiger Woods is.
I'd guess the majority of this forum don't really follow football, so you might not be aware that you can go almost anywhere in the world and spark a debate over whether Ronaldo or Messi is better**.
I dunno man. I think it's hard to overstate just how huge Michael Jordan was back in the day. He wasn't just world famous in the way Serena Williams or Tiger Woods are - he was an actual superstar. LeBron James is a big deal right now, but are people going to be wearing Nike Air James in 30 years time?
Lebron? You have just named another sportsman that only yanks would care about. I know how big MJ was, but no one outside the states gave a shit about how good he was at his insignificant American game. Beckham never dominated his sport the same way MJ did, Beckham never had his own brand of boots, but fitbaw is bigger than any yank sport will ever be, and Beckham is probably bigger than MJ. And Beckham is not that highly regarded a footballist.
No American baller will ever be as famous as the greater soccerists
Well MJ was in Space Jam and Becks leant his name to Bend it like Beckham but neither were as good as Pele's Escape to Victory.
Strictly 21st Century, I'd have to say:
Fellowship of the Ring
Fury Road
Shaun of the Dead
Quote from: radiator on 30 September, 2020, 08:04:41 PM
I dunno man. I think it's hard to overstate just how huge Michael Jordan was back in the day.
An aside - I would highly recommend the 10 part Michael Jordan documentary on Netflix -
The Last Dance. Basketball fan or not.
Quote from: Link Prime on 01 October, 2020, 09:44:11 AM
Strictly 21st Century, I'd have to say:
Fellowship of the Ring
Fury Road
Shaun of the Dead
Quote from: radiator on 30 September, 2020, 08:04:41 PM
I dunno man. I think it's hard to overstate just how huge Michael Jordan was back in the day.
An aside - I would highly recommend the 10 part Michael Jordan documentary on Netflix - The Last Dance. Basketball fan or not.
Not a fan of Basketball, but that Documentary is superb. So much human drama, and the sight of a grown man crying when he realises he had no friends on the team because he was pushing everybody to his level brought a tear to my eye.
Drive. Absolutely beautifully shot, with a soundtrack that might be as important as anything that actually occurs on screen.
Quote from: radiator on 30 September, 2020, 07:40:01 PM
QuoteI think there's plenty of animated stuff that counts as classic. Toy Story and the like.
Very true - however almost all of those you mention are well over twenty years old. Good shout with Pixar though - I think a lot of their films reach the bar for 'timeless classic', especially ones like Up and Wall-E.
Good call on Up! I think I prefer Wall-E, but Up has more 'moments'.
Well, I was delighted to find Children of Men on Netflix last night. Brilliant stuff - thanks for the recommendations. Kind of a Soylent Green for the times, and seems more relevant than ever in these dark days of Trump and Brexit.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 01 October, 2020, 01:17:11 PM
Well, I was delighted to find Children of Men on Netflix last night. Brilliant stuff - thanks for the recommendations. Kind of a Soylent Green for the times, and seems more relevant than ever in these dark days of Trump and Brexit.
It is a really special film.
The kind of movie that gut-punches you every time you watch, and that impact never fades.
Quote from: JamesC on 30 September, 2020, 10:50:07 PM
Well MJ was in Space Jam and Becks leant his name to Bend it like Beckham but neither were as good as Pele's Escape to Victory.
Neymar's part in Triple XXX: The Return of XXXander Cage is very under-appreciated.
The name I'd have expected to see mentioned is Paul
WS Anderson. Seemed like There Will Be Blood was the thing everyone was excited about ten years ago.
Other than that, Fury Road and Moonlight are the ones which will go the distance.
Post-2000, the one that stands out is the Lord of the Rings trilogy - that's going to be a classic for ever
Quote from: Dandontdare on 01 October, 2020, 07:19:12 PM
Post-2000, the one that stands out is the Lord of the Rings trilogy - that's going to be a classic for ever
Yeah. It's flawed, but the flaws are part of the thing I love — it's not some plastic corporate product, and we'll probably not see its like again. I love it for its flaws, the occasional wobbliness of the SFX and I'll forgive it the occasional surrender to Jackson's worse impulses as a film-maker, simply because it doesn't feel like a committee made it (see: The Hobbit movies for what we could have got*).
It was a remarkable confluence of corporate events that led to New Line being forced to make movie that Warner would
never have made, and a happy coincidence that that led to them deciding to give the director of Bad Taste and Brain Dead $300M to spend eight years making three movies of a supposedly unfilmable book on the furthest part of the planet from Hollywood.
* I don't hate the Hobbit movies. In fact, there's quite a lot I like about them, but those things are little gems picked of a big corporate movie splot.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 01 October, 2020, 07:33:26 PM
Quote from: Dandontdare on 01 October, 2020, 07:19:12 PM
Post-2000, the one that stands out is the Lord of the Rings trilogy - that's going to be a classic for ever
Yeah. It's flawed, but the flaws are part of the thing I love — it's not some plastic corporate product, and we'll probably not see its like again. I love it for its flaws, the occasional wobbliness of the SFX and I'll forgive it the occasional surrender to Jackson's worse impulses as a film-maker, simply because it doesn't feel like a committee made it (see: The Hobbit movies for what we could have got*).
It was a remarkable confluence of corporate events that led to New Line being forced to make movie that Warner would never have made, and a happy coincidence that that led to them deciding to give the director of Bad Taste and Brain Dead $300M to spend eight years making three movies of a supposedly unfilmable book on the furthest part of the planet from Hollywood.
* I don't hate the Hobbit movies. In fact, there's quite a lot I like about them, but those things are little gems picked of a big corporate movie splot.
I rewatched the first hobbit film last week and it's got all the good stuff in. The longer it went on, the more extraneous guff was added - I'd love to see a re-edit down to about 2 hours max cutting out anything not in the book, and trimming some of the stuff which was. He basically tried to make the same film about a very different book. A 9+ hour trilogy from an epic, sprawling 3 book series? Fine. The same from a children's novella? Not fine.
The best part of The Hobbit Trilogy is the scene of the stone trolls in Fellowship.
(https://external-preview.redd.it/DS0VzbpWctc3ubPa4saNFEJKuWW6mONWVtryvpEo3aA.jpg?auto=webp&s=61b49a7d6ee67085babe2deee07edcf91b8d7609)
Quote from: Dandontdare on 01 October, 2020, 08:56:44 PMa re-edit down to about 2 hours max cutting out anything not in the book
I believe this thing exists in the murky corners of the internet. I haven't seen it, but I remember reading an article about it... there's definitely a fan edit, albeit around the three hour (?) mark, that cuts everything not in the novel... although I don't object to the White Council stuff in principle, since it's canon, albeit culled from the LotR appendices, and explains Gandalf's otherwise slightly baffling disappearance from the book.
If I remember rightly, it's called the Tolkien edit, if it's still available. Been a couple of years since I saw it, the picture quality wasn't too good, but its a really good movie. Definitely recommended if there's a decent version out there somewhere....
Quote from: Funt Solo on 01 October, 2020, 09:09:54 PM
The best part of The Hobbit Trilogy is the scene of the stone trolls in Fellowship.
(https://external-preview.redd.it/DS0VzbpWctc3ubPa4saNFEJKuWW6mONWVtryvpEo3aA.jpg?auto=webp&s=61b49a7d6ee67085babe2deee07edcf91b8d7609)
Strong agree.
The first Hobbit movie has its moments, in a 'lifeless retread of LotR' sort of way, but by the end of movie 2 and all of 3 it becomes an outright travesty. The whole thing is so misconceived I still find it a little hard to process.
QuoteFellowship of the Ring
Fury Road
Shaun of the Dead
Shaun would be a contender, but it's very much a cult film in the states where almost no one I've met outside of hardcore nerd circles has heard of it.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 01 October, 2020, 08:56:44 PM
I rewatched the first hobbit film last week and it's got all the good stuff in. The longer it went on, the more extraneous guff was added - I'd love to see a re-edit down to about 2 hours max cutting out anything not in the book, and trimming some of the stuff which was. He basically tried to make the same film about a very different book. A 9+ hour trilogy from an epic, sprawling 3 book series? Fine. The same from a children's novella? Not fine.
There are fan edits out there that trim out all the non-book stuff and reign back a bit more of the nonsense (i.e. the Dwarves escaping the goblins) and are a lot more watchable. The one I saw was still about 4 hours long though.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 01 October, 2020, 07:19:12 PM
Post-2000, the one that stands out is the Lord of the Rings trilogy - that's going to be a classic for ever
Good point - I'd forgotten about that. I have to say, more than any 21 century film I can think of, I think that will be an all-time classic in the Star Wars original trilogy vein. Not necessarily the
best film of the last 20 years but definitely one that will make cinema history.
I still love it though - I hadn't actually read the books till I heard the film was coming out; then I sped through them to get up to date (God, my pre-home-internet attention span was way better). They absolutely nailed it with the casting, and didn't compromise - even small things like Gandalf developing a taste for Shire tobacco and Sam having the 'right' English accent for saying things like 'I'll warrant', could have been Hollywoodised out of existence, but not a bit of it.
Of course, the big eagles
could have flown Frodo straight to Mordor, but well, maybe the airports were all closed like in
The Cursed Earth.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 02 October, 2020, 12:55:04 PM
Of course, the big eagles could have flown Frodo straight to Mordor, but well, maybe the airports were all closed like in The Cursed Earth.
And a Death-belt arose in the East...
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 02 October, 2020, 12:55:04 PM
Quote from: Dandontdare on 01 October, 2020, 07:19:12 PM
Post-2000, the one that stands out is the Lord of the Rings trilogy - that's going to be a classic for ever
Good point - I'd forgotten about that. I have to say, more than any 21 century film I can think of, I think that will be an all-time classic in the Star Wars original trilogy vein. Not necessarily the best film of the last 20 years but definitely one that will make cinema history.
I still love it though - I hadn't actually read the books till I heard the film was coming out; then I sped through them to get up to date (God, my pre-home-internet attention span was way better). They absolutely nailed it with the casting, and didn't compromise - even small things like Gandalf developing a taste for Shire tobacco and Sam having the 'right' English accent for saying things like 'I'll warrant', could have been Hollywoodised out of existence, but not a bit of it.
Of course, the big eagles could have flown Frodo straight to Mordor, but well, maybe the airports were all closed like in The Cursed Earth.
I remember going to see the first Harry Potter movie at the cinema, and the LotR trailer than ran before it was so monumentally exciting it made Potter seem so dull by comparison. I don't think I'd ever wished to be seeing
that movie instead more!
I think the trilogy as a whole was probably the last time I experienced a feeling of genuine childlike wonder at seeing a film.
As for the eagle 'plot hole' thing that everyone likes to point out, I always thought it was pretty clear going by the story's logic that the eagle would have just dumped Frodo and Sam mid-flight and taken the ring for itself at the first opportunity?
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0223/4661/products/Long_story_hobbit_grey_670x670.jpg?v=1571265675)
Surely eagles would have been immediately noticed by Sauron and torn out of the sky by Nazgul? The whole journey is reliant on Sauron not realising the danger till it's at his door - you can't get much more ostentatious than cruising up on eagles.
That too, yeah.
Quote from: radiator on 02 October, 2020, 09:26:16 PM
I don't think I'd ever wished to be seeing that movie instead more!
The Germans have probably got a long word for "wanting to watch the movie in the trailer more than the one you've just paid to see" - happens to me often
Quote from: Dandontdare on 02 October, 2020, 10:40:00 PM
Quote from: radiator on 02 October, 2020, 09:26:16 PM
I don't think I'd ever wished to be seeing that movie instead more!
The Germans have probably got a long word for "wanting to watch the movie in the trailer more than the one you've just paid to see" - happens to me often
FilmTrailergeshenbesseraslFilmen
I know nothing about the sport of baseball, but I've watched the film Moneyball/b] many times. It's absolutely fascinating, but I think that has more to do with the fact that I'm a maths geek.
Quote from: von Boom on 02 October, 2020, 11:34:00 PM
I know nothing about the sport of baseball, but I've watched the film Moneyball/b] many times. It's absolutely fascinating, but I think that has more to do with the fact that I'm a maths geek.
Great film, and the Michael Lewis book is equally brilliant. As is Michael Lewis' appearance on Desert Island Discs, and his many stories about being the uncooked person in any room he ever walks into.
Someone mentioned USUAL SUSPECTS.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 03 October, 2020, 11:34:56 AM
Someone mentioned USUAL SUSPECTS.
It's a quarter of a century old - I think it's a stretch to call that recent!
Quote from: sheridan on 03 October, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 03 October, 2020, 11:34:56 AM
Someone mentioned USUAL SUSPECTS.
It's a quarter of a century old - I think it's a stretch to call that recent!
Also... I never got the adulation and plaudits for The Usual Suspects. It's a pretty run of the mill movie with a twist, and I really didn't think the twist was audacious enough to overturn the run-of-the-mill-ish-ness of the preceding two hours.
I guessed the twist immediately, (and I mean immediately). [spoiler]"The disabled person is the murderer and not really disabled"[/spoiler] isn't exactly the most original idea in crime fiction.
See also horror/supernatural drama stories in which "they were dead all along".
Quote from: M.I.K. on 03 October, 2020, 11:14:53 PM
See also horror/supernatural drama stories in which "they were dead all along".
I suspect I may have been spoiled by the first really-big-twist-movie I watched being Angel Heart, which, honestly, still takes the prize for [spoiler]selling the hard-boiled-noir tone so well that you never see the THIS FILM WAS REALLY A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GENRE ALL ALONG twist coming.[/spoiler]
Bloody hell, loved that film. Watched it over and over. The clues are all there in front of your face. De Niro pouring salt on the egg still makes me shiver.
Quite a couple. Outside those already mentioned in the thread. Just to mention a few from 2000 and onwards:
Crouching tiger hidden dragon
Spirited away
Sin City
Kill Bill 1-2
Oh brother where art thou
Oldboy
No country for old men
Django unchained
Drive
Inception
Blade runner 2049
Once upon a time in Hollywood
I think all these had an impact in one way or another. Got good reviews, people loved them, influenced how/what movies are made and made waves culturaly. For example Oh brother where art thou making bluegrass cool again.
Quote from: shaolin_monkey on 30 September, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
I was only thinking about this the other day, but in terms of horror films. To me, there's nothing recent that even comes close to beating Carpenter's 'The Thing'. Maybe 'The Color from Outer Space' at a push, as it deals in a similar type of body horror.
I was watching 'Aliens' while I worked the other day, and it occurred to me there has not been a film since that so successfully combines such a superb ensemble of characters with sci-fi action and horror. Unless someone can remind me of something I may have missed?
I've been saying something for ages now and this kind of speaks to it. I reckon it is now impossible to make a good Alien, Predator or Terminator film. It's not that films now are bad or that filmmakers are somehow incompetent. It's more than that but I can't quite figure out what exactly is wrong.
I mean I know that Ghostbusters (2016) was panned by a lot of people but I reckon the next one will likely be just as bad. That's just how it is now. There are plenty of great films out there but beloved 80s favourites have become poisonous somehow.
Quote from: repoman on 12 October, 2020, 08:31:49 PM
beloved 80s favourites have become poisonous somehow.
* Cough * Cobra Kai * Cough *
Quote from: Link Prime on 13 October, 2020, 09:15:29 AM
Quote from: repoman on 12 October, 2020, 08:31:49 PM
beloved 80s favourites have become poisonous somehow.
* Cough * Cobra Kai * Cough *
Actually aside from you being right completely, I do believe we live in a bit of a golden age of TV. I think you might be able to pull off a decent Alien or Predator TV show.
That Terminator series was a little too early and time travel can make for terrible storytelling if used badly but even that show had a couple of great episodes and some good characters.
The Dark Crystal show exceeded the original.
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 13 October, 2020, 01:16:59 PM
The Dark Crystal show exceeded the original.
By some margin. I watched the movie in preparation for the show and, although it does look gorgeous, my God, it's
turgid.
Quote from: repoman on 13 October, 2020, 11:36:32 AM
I think you might be able to pull off a decent Alien or Predator TV show.
That Terminator series was a little too early and time travel can make for terrible storytelling if used badly but even that show had a couple of great episodes and some good characters.
A Terminator, Predator or Alien series could work of course, once the production team leap the initial but oft insurmountable hurdle of "Don't suck".
Agree that the
Sarah Conner Chronicles series was pretty decent, and definitely better than the last few box office attempts.
I haven't yet managed to stomach a viewing of Dark Fate, having read in disbelief about Arnie's T-800 "Carl".
I mean,
what the f-ck were they thinking?
Link, Dark Fate is really terrible but Arnie playing Nappy Changer 3000 is the worst thing. Well that and Sarah Connor looking like Katie Hopkins.
That said, the character Grace is sensational. Really enjoyed her bits of the film. Everything else was rubbish though.
This thread is basically dead right now but I've only just found it and I can't resist a 'make if list of films to fit category X' challenge. Sorry!
I can't stress enough my experience that today's younger film fans agree that anything before 2000 is the olden days and might only be watched under duress. So the original question is proper valid - what are the new all-time classics?
Based on compulsive listening to the Empire podcast, there are clear examples out there, and indeed fimmakers who are just as loved as Scorsese, Spielberg, Coppola etc were in their day (and of course they do still make movies)
Any new film by C. Nolan or PT Anderson or G. del Toro or the Coens is going to be greeted with reverence, and there's by now two generations of people raised on Pixar movies who will quote them forever (not to mention a hefty chunk of Disney - Frozen and Moana are cultural juggernauts, and decent films as well, as if that matters). And yes, Harry Potter and Marvel are inescapable touchstones of conversation...
Pretty sure there's a very healthy Horror canon right now, centred around Insidious/the Conjuring, but I think for decades teens at sleepovers will be daring each other to watch The Babadook, It Follows and Hereditary, and dare I say it, It. (and from the 2000s there's enduring love for: 28 Days later..., the Descent, Wolf Creek and Cabin in the Woods).
Hard to name a bigger cultural hit than Get Out, too (even if it's kinda like a very good episode of Black Mirror - as peple have said before, it's TV lately that seems to be the go-to for intelligence rather than spectacle)
Other films since 2000 that I believe people who haven't even watched them have heard of and can maybe quote from, or at least know what it's about (sorry if I'm repeating suggestions from upthread):
Eternal Sunshine; Lost in Translation; Brokeback Mountain; Before Sunset/Midnight; the Fast and bloody Furious franchise; Mamma Mia; The Greatest Showman; Whiplash; Moonlight; Call me by your Name
Most of those are even quite good! I guess they're less concerned with 'brooding exploration of masculinity' than the original exmaples listed in the thread?
Sure, there are more films (and TV) being made than ever, and more platforms to watch them on - but I still think there's as much shared cultural conversation going on about a relatively small number as there always was...
Quote from: AlexF on 18 November, 2020, 10:47:27 AM
This thread is basically dead right now but I've only just found it and I can't resist a 'make if list of films to fit category X' challenge. Sorry!
Don't apologise! I'm always interested in any input here. Someone's mention of the LOTR movies was a bit of a penny-drop moment for me - I had completely forgotten about them when I started the thread.
Quote from: AlexF on 18 November, 2020, 10:47:27 AM
Hard to name a bigger cultural hit than Get Out, too (even if it's kinda like a very good episode of Black Mirror - as peple have said before, it's TV lately that seems to be the go-to for intelligence rather than spectacle)
I've not actually heard of that - did it come out recently?
Great post, Alex, very interesting.
Quote from: TordelBack on 19 November, 2020, 09:51:20 AM
Great post, Alex, very interesting.
Oops - forgot to mention that part. But yeah, it really is.
Quote from: sheridan on 19 November, 2020, 09:42:34 AM
Quote from: AlexF on 18 November, 2020, 10:47:27 AM
Hard to name a bigger cultural hit than Get Out, too (even if it's kinda like a very good episode of Black Mirror - as peple have said before, it's TV lately that seems to be the go-to for intelligence rather than spectacle)
I've not actually heard of that - did it come out recently?
Get Out is a horror/comedy/social satire that came out in, I think 2017 to little fanfare but became quite the talking point. It's very much something that 2000AD fans are likely to enjoy, highly recommended, and I'm genuinely surprised if it passed you by - I guess the name isn't especially memorable.
Lead actor Daniel Kaluuya got Oscar nominated for it and everything, noteworthy round here as he's a local boy (grew up in Camden).
https://letterboxd.com/film/get-out-2017/ (https://letterboxd.com/film/get-out-2017/)
If you're interested in films that are, for want of a better word, beloved, this is a pretty fascinating list:
https://letterboxd.com/crew/list/highest-rated-obsessively-rewatched-club/ (https://letterboxd.com/crew/list/highest-rated-obsessively-rewatched-club/)
It's a top 100 films that lots of people have watched again and again.
I'm including it here because Dredd is at No.74 on the list! I've only seen it twice myself - I'm guessing some people round these parts may have racked up more than the necessary 5 watches to get it onto the list :D
Two thirds of the films on the list are from the 21st Century.
Quote from: AlexF on 20 November, 2020, 09:03:47 AM
I'm including it here because Dredd is at No.74 on the list! I've only seen it twice myself - I'm guessing some people round these parts may have racked up more than the necessary 5 watches to get it onto the list :D
I saw it three times - at the cinema (once in 3d and twice in 2d - once I'd managed to track down the only cinema in London which was showing it in 2d). I seem to remember having watched it whilst cat-sitting around somebody's flat but other than that it would only have been on DVD.
Quote from: AlexF on 19 November, 2020, 03:30:50 PM
Lead actor Daniel Kaluuya got Oscar nominated for it and everything, noteworthy round here as he's a local boy (grew up in Camden).
I hadn't heard the name (though it turns out I've seen him in the Black Mirror episode). Found out I used to live around the corner from where he grew up (also just up the hill from Amy Winehouse's old place).
Get Out is an amazing film. The bit where the title becomes clear was spine chilling!
Quote from: sheridan on 20 November, 2020, 10:09:28 AM
Quote from: AlexF on 20 November, 2020, 09:03:47 AM
I'm including it here because Dredd is at No.74 on the list! I've only seen it twice myself - I'm guessing some people round these parts may have racked up more than the necessary 5 watches to get it onto the list :D
I saw it three times - at the cinema (once in 3d and twice in 2d - once I'd managed to track down the only cinema in London which was showing it in 2d). I seem to remember having watched it whilst cat-sitting around somebody's flat but other than that it would only have been on DVD.
I got a Cineworld card just so I could watch it over and over in the cinema. Lost count of how many times I saw it. The guys who worked there would say hello and comment on which 2000AD/Dredd T-shirt I was wearing that day.
Then of course I bought it on DVD, Blu Ray, got copies for friends on Dredd day, plus have a streaming copy I can watch wherever I want. Do all those contribute to 'repeat views' do you think?
Bacarau is an instant classic and pretty 2000ad in its own way (outsiders / politics / violence)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKTejyk9ZIA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKTejyk9ZIA)
Quote from: BPP on 20 November, 2020, 02:54:40 PM
Bacarau is an instant classic and pretty 2000ad in its own way (outsiders / politics / violence)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKTejyk9ZIA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKTejyk9ZIA)
Wow, hadn't heard of that one, but it looks top notch. Also something to talk to my mostly-Brazilian students about.
Think Bacurau is also on 4OD at the moment - haven't seen it yet but excited to very soon!
QuoteEternal Sunshine; Lost in Translation; Brokeback Mountain; Before Sunset/Midnight; the Fast and bloody Furious franchise; Mamma Mia; The Greatest Showman; Whiplash; Moonlight; Call me by your Name
I'd say that out of that list, only Brokeback Mountain has the kind of cultural currency and name recognition the OP was getting at (and again, thats a film that is nearly 20 years old). Lots of films win awards, but Oscar wins and noms don't really seem to have much of an impact in terms of making a film an actual bona fide
hit these days - you'd probably have to go back to 2008's Slumdog Millionaire for a solid example of that happening.
I'd kind of put the F&F franchise in the same box as Marvel tbh - they're huge movies no doubt, but largely interchangeable to the outside observer. I haven't seen any of them since the original, but I can't really think of any iconic individual scenes or moments from any of them that have really transcended the medium.
The rest of that list are textbook examples of 'cult' films, imo.
It's quite interesting to look at the highest grossing movies of each year for the last fifty years or so - you really have to go back to the 90s to see (for want of a better word) 'grown up' movies regularly hitting big. From 2000 on its almost exclusively sequels, remakes and franchises.
It really just reinforces to me that TV shows have truly eclipsed movies as the dominant modern art form (and the line between movies and TV becomes more and more blurred). No recent standalone movie outside of perhaps The Avengers or Black Panther can compare to the cultural footprint and long tail of a Breaking Bad or a Game of Thrones, a Walking Dead or a Mad Men or a Stranger Things.
A couple of other thoughts:
I think novelty and originality are a key part of what makes something really hit the zeitgeist and make a cultural impact, and those are things sorely lacking from modern big budget, widely seen movies (with a few exceptions).
The traditional 'Oscar bait' movie is dead. Green Book was the final nail in the coffin. The big awards mostly go to small indie movies these days.
I was talking to a pest-control expert friend of mine just the other day about a mousetrap I laid from which the bait had been snaffled without setting it off. We both brought up Mission: Impossible at virtually the same time. You too are probably imagining, right now, a cute mouse in a black pullover dangling from a rope harness to snatch the experimental cheese from the mousetrap while The Music plays in the background - and if you weren't, you are now. And, unfortunately, will be for several days to come.
I think that's when a film's on this list, when it's become part of everyday communication.
Anyway, he said it was probably a shrew - too light to trigger the mechanism.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 25 November, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
I was talking to a pest-control expert friend of mine just the other day about a mousetrap I laid from which the bait had been snaffled without setting it off. We both brought up Mission: Impossible at virtually the same time. You too are probably imagining, right now, a cute mouse in a black pullover dangling from a rope harness to snatch the experimental cheese from the mousetrap while The Music plays in the background - and if you weren't, you are now. And, unfortunately, will be for several days to come.
I think that's when a film's on this list, when it's become part of everyday communication.
Anyway, he said it was probably a shrew - too light to trigger the mechanism.
I think thats
exactly the kind of thing the OP is getting at - whether its a particular scene, or a key visual or a musical cue or whatever, that point when a piece of media reaches that saturation point where it becomes a common reference point, or a verb.
Lots of people here are just listing films that are commonly accepted as being 'good' or having a dedicated fanbase, but that's really not the same thing at all. I don't really see anyone referencing Before Sunset in the same way as your Mission Impossible example.
Quote from: radiator on 25 November, 2020, 06:24:17 PM
I don't really see anyone referencing Before Sunset in the same way as your Mission Impossible example.
Unless your entire social circle is made up of middle-aged art house aficionados.
We need to do a Mission: Impossible into Indiana Jones' Warehouse, snatch the Pink Panther without getting Sopranoed by Thanos, get it to a Steptoe then do a hasty Shawshank and hope there isn't a Spartacus at the end of it.
Speaking Jedi, of course.
Quotewhether its a particular scene, or a key visual or a musical cue
Or - and I think this is a big one - a particular actor or performance, or a specific pairing or character and performer (or two actors paired together with an undeniable chemistry) can really be the x factor that can catapult an otherwise 'decent' movie into the cultural stratosphere.
I'm thinking of Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight, Jennifer Lawrence in The Hunger Games, Robert Downey Jr in Iron Man, Jeff Bridges in The Big Lebowski and Daniel Day Lewis in There Will Be Blood, that kind of thing.
When Harry met Sally.
Don't look at me like that. You know who I'm talking about...
I'll be in my bunk.
Quote from: radiator on 25 November, 2020, 06:24:17 PM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 25 November, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
I was talking to a pest-control expert friend of mine just the other day about a mousetrap I laid from which the bait had been snaffled without setting it off. We both brought up Mission: Impossible at virtually the same time. You too are probably imagining, right now, a cute mouse in a black pullover dangling from a rope harness to snatch the experimental cheese from the mousetrap while The Music plays in the background - and if you weren't, you are now. And, unfortunately, will be for several days to come.
I think that's when a film's on this list, when it's become part of everyday communication.
Anyway, he said it was probably a shrew - too light to trigger the mechanism.
I think thats exactly the kind of thing the OP is getting at - whether its a particular scene, or a key visual or a musical cue or whatever, that point when a piece of media reaches that saturation point where it becomes a common reference point, or a verb.
Lots of people here are just listing films that are commonly accepted as being 'good' or having a dedicated fanbase, but that's really not the same thing at all. I don't really see anyone referencing Before Sunset in the same way as your Mission Impossible example.
You are correct. And the mouse thing is equally relevant - I am battling an infestation as we speak.
I was thinking of that as I typed - and wondering if the board itself now has a mouse infestation. We should probably set traps on the Warm/Wet/Cold thread...
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 25 November, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
I was talking to a pest-control expert friend of mine just the other day about a mousetrap I laid from which the bait had been snaffled without setting it off. We both brought up Mission: Impossible at virtually the same time. You too are probably imagining, right now, a cute mouse in a black pullover dangling from a rope harness to snatch the experimental cheese from the mousetrap while The Music plays in the background - and if you weren't, you are now. And, unfortunately, will be for several days to come.
I think that's when a film's on this list, when it's become part of everyday communication.
Anyway, he said it was probably a shrew - too light to trigger the mechanism.
So you're saying that Tom Cruise was too light to set off the trap? Well, I knew he was
short...