What is Alan Moore's current relationship with 2000ad and Rebellion at the moment?
Are they on talking terms?
Would he ever work for 2000ad again?
Is he too expensive?
(I'm sure this came up in conversation about the new Halo Jones books, that Gibson wants to do, but I don't recall the details.)
Probably not.
Not very likely for a variety of reasons.
It probbaly just wouldn't interest him.
He discusses this in "The Extraordinary Works of Alan Moore":
Every four or five years, there will be a change of editorship at 2000AD and I'll get a phone call. "Is there any way that you can come back and work for us?". And I'll sort of stay with "Give me back Halo Jones. Give Halo Jones back to me and Ian Gibson." And then, in the past, I would have been prepared to actually do a new book of Halo Jones and to let 2000AD publish it. But they're never going to give me back Halo Jones, because if they did that, then they'd have to give Pat Mills and John Wagner Judge Dredd. And if they did that, then they'd just be a bunch of largely talentless chancers who happened to find themselves in possession of all these other people's famous characters and wouldn't have any market or characters any more. So it's never going to happen. It's a waste of my time to even consider it. And even if they did offer me Halo Jones back now, I don't want to ever do anything for 2000AD again. It's sort of... they've burned that one.
That'd be a 'no' then.
hasn;t he cut off ties with dc aswell?
Cheers.
So, If you owned 2000ad, would you give him and Ian Halo Jones?
or is it really too much of a can of worms?
(Although giving back some characters to their creators would be a blessing)
Would it be possible to reach a medium ground, whereby the creator has exclusive rights to a character, and gets all the relevant royalties and monies, BUT the creator has to ensure that the character's adventures are always EXCLUSIVE to 2000ad, and can only be reprinted elsewhere by another company after x years (although 2000ad could offer a reprint at anytime)?
I knew about DC ties being cut, and also was under the impression that he had announced his retirement from comics writing, but that was at least a year ago, if not longer.
Seems so according to this link.
I think it's funny that he makes a big deal over this when he's been freely using other authors' creations in LOEG.
- Steve
Link: http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg&article=2153
I think you'll find that all the author's whose characters he uses are long dead, and that the books, and characters have long since fallen out f any form of copyright (which is why you can download the original books as ebooks for free from the net....
... I might be wrong mind.
No, I think you're right Dane.
The characters he uses are all Public Domain.
Public Domain, yup that's the chappie!
What other great characters are now in Public Domain?
Doc Savage, The Shadow and numerous other pulp characters. I used to have a link to a site that had all of their stories on text. Was a while ago so I don't know if that's still the case. I believe DC or Image or somebody did a Savage/Shadow series. So it's anyone's guess!
Mind you, they could belong to Michael Jackson. Like The Beatles.
"John Lennon, I have your soul! Shamone!"
Doubt he'll be back. He's retired from mainstram comics in general, and 2000AD is one of the many companies he's severed all ties with.
He's said in interviews (and I'm paraphrasing here - probably badly) that every few years, 2000AD changes hands, and he gets a nervous phone call from the new management asking him if he'd consider coming back. He asks can he have the rights to Halo Jones, and then doesn't hear from 2000AD again until the next change of management. AFAIK, he didn't specify whether Rebellion have ever contacted him.
I think he's also said he wouldn't come back now even if he was offered the rights to Halo Jones.
Noisy: really?
Your paraphrasing leaves a little to be desired mind, check above ;-)
Yeah, I know they're public domain
(although he seemed to have run into problems with Fu Manchu, as he's just called the Devil Doctor in LOEG, and some vague copyright issues arose when the Invisible Man had to have a namechange for the movie)
They were still created by someone else though, and he doesn't give any credit to the creators at all (OK, most are obvious, but there are a ton of obscure characters in there)
There's also Albion
http://www.thealienonline.net/ao_030.asp?tid=1&scid=5&iid=2568
It just seems a bit hypocritical banging on about creators' rights, unless he's donating some profits from Albion to creators of these characters or their surviving family.
- Steve
...Which, of course, Amstor said, much more succinctly and accurately over an hour ago.
I'm in my GF's house. No broadband. Have to dial up, load each thread in a different tab, disconnect, read 'em all, then reconnect & reply.
Bloody dialup...
Well, IMO a preferable situation would be for a company to purchase the exclusive publication rights to a strip for X years when they first commission it. The writer & artist(s) would be paid the typical fee for their work, plus a set amount to secure the exclusive rights, plus royalties on any reprints during this time period.
At the end of X years, the company would be obliged to offer the rights to the strip back to the writer and artist(s). They would then be able to negotiate a continuation of the existing arrangement, taking into account any changes in the past few years (popularity, dissatisfaction with the publisher, sales of reprints etc.), sell the strip outright, or retain the rights and do with them as they see fit (offering the character/series to another publisher, for example).
I'm sure that's not a perfect setup, and I suspect there are quite a few holes, but it seems more equitable and provides an incentive for publishers to treat creators well, as well as giving creators total control over a strip after a reasonable period.
Any ideas?
I'm not sure I see a problem with companies offering work for hire with royalties.
Can't someone wrap themselves in some green plastic sheeting and caper outside his house in the middle of the night shouting "Finish Halo Jones! The snake-god demades it!" or something
>but it seems more equitable and provides an incentive for publishers to treat creators well
I can never see why people who work knowing full well how a system works then moan about it years later. Whether you think its right or wrong that same system gave Moore the chance to see his work printed and get to where he is today.
Well, 2000AD lead a lot of people onto a fairly profitable career (though not all of 'em!).
Anyway, the problem in the eigties was that, suddenly a lot of spin offs and merchandise were making the publishers (IPC) a lot of money, and no one (creators or publishers) had really forseen this when they did the original work.
This understandably caused some resentment among creators. But the publishers and even the NUJ weren't very sympathetic. Nobody was asking for all the rights back for work for hire, just for them to get a slice of the pie they had created.
Thanks really to John Wagner and the management at Egmont, they finally got this. And I think that's a fair system (from my viewpoint on the outside). Creators get paid for doing their job, and a percentage of any money that material goes on to make.
It's all very well saying that creators know full well how the system works- but it's still a bit like blackmail for them in the begining, isn't it? Want to get paid? Want to see your work in print? Fine- just sign here first. You might know what you're getting into, but that doesn't mean you're ever going to like it.
I totally see Moore's POV. He's not saying "you can't use that, it's mine", he's just saying "I don't want to work like that anymore, thanks".
Who would, given the choice?
The question is - does 2000ad need Alan Moore? I think the simple answer is no. It never needed him.
However Alan Moore needed 2000ad. Would he really have got to were he is now without it? Would he really have achieved all that he has if he'd been stuck writing for Warrior and UK Marvel? In fact a more interesting question. If 2000ad hadn't existed would Warrior?
This is the thing. 2000ad does not (and probably never will) get the credit that it deserves. 2000ad has had more of an impact on the entire comic industry than any other single publication. If there was no 2000ad there would have been no explosion of UK talent into the moribund US market. You might claim "talent will out" but where would this have been discovered? Without the exposure 2000ad gave all the creators how would their talents have ever been discovered? Think about it - a US comic industry without UK creators.
Sometimes people here don't realise just how important (in Comic terms) 2000ad really is.
I think you are right in what you say, JEB. And I understand Alan Moore's position.
But I think you need publishers to keep comics publishing going, creators have a lousy track record. Is it blackmail, because they aren't there just to serve all the needs and desires of the creator?
I don't think it's a question of whether or not 2000ad need him, but whether or not they want him- and why wouldn't they want him? Like it or not, he still sells. Of course Moore needed 2000ad in the begining- but does he need them now? Personally, I believe that a Moore/2000ad reunion would be a lot more beneficial to 2000ad than it would be to Moore (assuming he wasn't being paid an astronomical sum).
I don't think anyone in their right mind would dismiss the importance of 2000ad in regards to their having discovered a lot of talented people- but how many of those people do they get to keep?
Cor! On-topic and everything- who'd have thought it!
;)
Paul --
I don't really have a huge problem with work-for-hire, provided writers & artists are fully aware of what they're getting involved in.
I'm also well aware of the importance of an established publisher in supporting, promoting and distributing comics, and in giving new creators a platform.
However, I do feel that there is room for an arrangement that benefits both creator and publisher, and doesn't just boil down to the publisher purchasing a story/character and then being able to do whatever they want with it, for as long as they choose.
Well, that's the element of choice again. Creators may not feel the need to have someone else own and publish their work. But that's something you can only do when you've 'made it'.
I believe publishers do pay more for more experienced and well know creators. But the matter of what deal they strike for rights on current work, they may or may not neccesarily involved the renegotiation of old contracts. But who would be being blackmailed there?
Whether Publishers can offer enough for more experienced creators to create new stories and characters is something determined by the creators I suspect.
Anyone here fancy funding young spotty comics creators to develop their own work, which they will own and you have first publishing rights only? Anyone? Anyone? No?
Well, as John Wagner seemed to be the one to force the hand on royalties, Pat Mills has gained 'unwritten' rights over who gets to right his characters. i.e. he does. And I think as a result, creators get more say in what happens to theior characters these days than ever before.
The current way of working does benefit both creator and publisher, it just depends which way you want to tip the scales. I'm all for creators rights, but often enough publishers are automatically painted as the bad guys.
With your leasing scheme, publishers fund and help creators develop all sorts of characters, and the popular ones are then sold off by the creators to the highest bidder. Why shouldn't they?
I'm pretty sure there would come a point when the publishers would ask themelves why they are in effect a creators benevolent fund, in a rather stunted medium and just pack it in.
This 'I want the rights back' argument, is to my mind understandable, who wouldn't want them back. But you can't normally claim back the rights to something once you've sold it. Would the creators like it if the publishers started changing the rules?
I think the royalty issue, was resolved fairly on the side of the creator, and it would have been much better for 2000AD and IPC if they had done it themselves. If the next inevitable stage is just creators demanding their work back entirely, well, then even that becomes a more complicated affair.
All of the above is qualified by the fact that I don't really know how the systems work and I could be very wrong indeed.
Far more potentially embarassing for Alan would be D.R. and Quinch which is pretty much a pastiche of a National Lampoon feature. Some would say copywrite breaching facsimile but I'd not.
for a guy who acted such a hipy. bit of a capitalist old fat isn't he?
That's probably unfair, and I don't think what Alan Moore has said about the rights of his comics books or the movie rights backs that up.
Um...help an old man out here...'could' someone else write a Halo Jones story, i.e. could tooth comission it with another writer?
Legally, yes. However, I don't think they would, especially after what happened with Skizz.
'Would Alan Moore have got where he is now without 2000 AD?'
Probably. Alan's first major series for 2000 AD, was 'Skizz' by which time, iirc, he was already causing a stir both here and in the States with 'Marvelman', 'V for Vendetta', and, to a lesser extent, 'Captain Britain'. Until 'Skizz', Alan had pretty much turned 'Tharg's Future Shocks' into a one-man show, much to his creative frustration, apparently.
'Would Warrior have existed without 2000 AD?'
Possibly. Dez Skinn was responsible for Doctor Who Weekly and, along with people such as Steve Moore, etc., was very much a part of the British comics -- I'm trying to avoid using the word, but -- scene in the late '70s/early '80s.
'2000 AD does not get the credit it deserves.'
Really? By whom? Alan Moore has been quite forward in his praise for 2000 AD and, in particular, Alan Grant for giving him the chance to do what he loves doing: writing. Sure, those various artists and writers usually got their first big break working for 2000 AD but if you're gonna argue that, then one may as well argue that, without Action, there wouldn't have been 2000 AD.
But yeah, of all the British comics since Ally Sloper, 2000 AD is the only one I can think of that has evolved constantly.
what about skizz?
btw, it says on the back of my copy of watchmen '...britains influential 2000ad...'
The second series of Skizz, and I think the third series as well, were both written by the series artist Jim Baikie, without Alan Moore to provide the story.
I enjoyed both, but apparently neither were considered 2000ad classics.
Halo Jones written by someone else just wouldn't be the same.
I for one am happy with the three books of Halo Jones we got, and I never expected to see more, even though more books were planned.
i aggree with HOU Halo went out that was it!
I thought the writing was on the wall for Halo Jones when we saw her being treated as the subject of a history class in her own future. That, to me, seemed like a way to frame the final instalment in her life story, not the way to begin a sprawling biographical epic. But it could have gone either way, I suppose.
Yeah, the questions are would it be as good as previously, this is 20 years later, it would surely be different at leat. And also, would it have as good an end as book 3? I dunno!
Someone mentioned Alan Moore doing a new series, now to my mind, that would be great. I always like to read his stuff, even if it's not on a topic I'd normally want to read.
I can't see it happening, so it's just idle speculation.
World War One was influential, but very few people who experienced it wanted to go back to it...
Quite a different kettle o' fish though - I doubt any veterans would demand the rights to their contributions (i.e. legal responsibility for anyone they shot) in WW1 before they'd agree to fight again.
I'm quite happy leaving Halo at three books - the risk of Book IV being shite when compared is too daunting to risk it.
Even if they got Moore back to 2000AD, I somehow doubt he'd give them his best work. Maybe that's unfair, but it's just a hunch based on something that's not going to happen anyway.
The history class and Halo disapearing into the great beyond pretty much wraps it up for me too.
Alan Moores quite happy doing his own thing right now. I recentkly transcribed an interview with him (coming soon in a forthcoming edition of Mustard) and he seemed very unlikely to work on anything not thoroughly creator owned and a bit weird in the near future.
As for peopel who are actually upset that he refused to do anything for 2000ad, well, it's not like he threw the rattle out of the pram like Morrison or Mills, and he has a perfect right to work for whoever he wants and demand whatever conditions he wants.
Lets face it, Mr Moore is well and truly past his best. Let the old boy enjoy retiremant.
Well appart from LOEG and a couple of other very intersting sounding projects...
Which reminds me... I've got the 49ers on my bookshelf still waiting to be read.
It's like someone has inner-knoweldge, gained either through some arcane ceremony or from transcribing an interview....
probably a bit mean of me. but he does seem a prickly old customer and not the total laid back hippy we see in the pictures.
Would Alan Moore have got to where he is now without 2000ad?
Possibly. Before 2000ad how many British creators were working for American comics? er....
Would Warrior have existed? It's unlikely. IPC producing 2000AD proved that there was a demand. Warrior rode on the coat tails of the market 2000ad created. Dez Skinn was well known for this - spotting a niche and filling it. That's all he did. He saw a gap and produced a comic (well occasionally) to exploit it.
As for 2000ad not getting the credit it deserves -I think you've missed the point I was trying to make...
'Would Warrior have existed? It's unlikely.'
Why? Sure, Dez has been quoted as being a bit of rascal, but Warrior (to begin with at least) was always more mature than 2000 AD, not just its content but also its approach to creators. Okay, a lot of people didn't get paid but the intent was there. When Warrior first hit the stands, IPC was still cranking out whatever tosh it thought kids would buy. Who's to say they wouldn't have come up with summat else in 2000 AD's place? Back then, there was still an underground scene where a good few 2000 AD contributors first saw print. Yeah, of course, it might not have Warrior by name but there's no reason why there couldn't have been something similar, something else that was a showcase for British and Irish talent.
'I think you've missed the point I was trying to make . . .'
Maybe I did. Just like you seemed to miss the point I was making.
Hi folks. I haven't posted for a while so nice to speak to you all again.
Nothing major to report but I thought it worth mentioning that I once went to see a version of Halo Jones at the Edinburgh festival in 1987 and the great man Alan Moore was there to see it (along with about 20 other people).
I went and spoke to him and he told me that he had nothing to do with it and it was totally unofficial but he was really supportive of the project(although I imagine that he was not geting paid anything for it).
He was a top bloke and even signed my post card that I bought and had a chat over a drink for a good old while.
It was a great wee show btw!
Blimey ! i was at that show, well maybe the one the night before or after... sadly in those days i wouldnt have known any squaxx, or an alan moore if i'd bumped into them. toby? the dogs costume was great.
You couldnae miss him. He looked just like the droid cartoon you used to see once in a while in the nerve centre stories!
Except he was wearing normal clothes.
IIRC it was in some converted church near the top of
Leith Walk.