Its all about those endings this week...
... well aside from a very effect Future Shock, from new blood, that for me was actually a better Terror Tale, but we're splitting hairs there.
The Dredd end frustrated me. Stuff happened, things were revealed, Dredd left some folks behind that make me want to re-read this and to check but I'm sure there should have been more arresting. It lacked power and felt rushed.
Survival Geeks was... okay, kinda fun, but there's no real bite to this strip so its ending aren't ever going to have that much impact.
Mech-wotsits might have been a pretty good ending but I'm not that invested and this needs a re-read.
So we're left to the end to get a satisfying ending. The Order plays a blinder again just great stuff. It felt both incredibly open, but almost as if it was being wrapped up. As if it was that kinda there is so much more to tell, but this is all you'll see... I hope I'm wrong and this one is back soon as its a delight.
So for me a pretty weak Prog but then if we look what we'll get over the next 7 days I suspect this will be more than made up for...
HA! and as I typed Richard beat me to it.
Can I get a merge please...
I've got to totally disagree, YMCA ;)
Dredd finished magnificently for me with tons of questions lining up and future repercussions resignating through out the Dreddverse.
survival geeks is grumpy old GRennie droid at the top of his game.. fully expect to loss him to the big two shortly.
Didn't read the other two and the Terror tale can wait til after Megazize 400!
Arh not here, not here, Richard agrees with you it seems and got there about 4 minutes before me!
(https://i.imgur.com/WZtsFoA.jpg)
Really enjoyed this issue, dredd was the stand out with a great ending which might lead to further sons of booth stories in the future, also I might be in the minority but loving survival geeks and long may it continue, looking forward to next week 2100
I'm just feeling bad for Richard at this point.
I was disappointed with the ending of Dredd. The Stupid gun made absolutely no difference to the plot. If they had used an ordinary gun it would have been the same outcome.
Quote from: TordelBack on 16 September, 2018, 09:56:10 AM
I'm just feeling bad for Richard at this point.
I tried man, I tried!
Dredd: I wasn't entire sure what the journo was on about regarding justice. Did he suddenly feel empathy for the Sons of Booth or the judges? I thought it was fine overall, if a bit inconsequential.
Survival Geeks is always welcome from a variety and pacing standpoint, and the art is great. I often find it veers dangerously close to being problematic from a gender/sexism standpoint, and seemingly usually aims to get around this by way of subversion or "stupid blokes are being stupid blokes". I know Rennie's not, say, a Big Bang Theory writer, but there's something that niggles with me about this strip in that area.
The Order: I need to re-read this from episode one, because I've no idea what the hell's going on now, nor even what the motivations and aims are of the various protagonists. I feel a bit sorry for Armoured Gideon, too. It would have been quite fun to have him just stomp about the place yelling ANNIHILATE, like an angry metal Groot.
Mechastopheles: lovely art. As for the strip itself, I'm not really sure what I think of this. I don't think I'd mind if it comes back and gets expanded on, but it seems have have concluded well enough as well.
Future Shock: That was appropriately nasty. As noted earlier, that felt equally like it would have worked as a Terror Tale. But, well, yikes. Good stuff. Also: horrible stuff, in the sense of what was happening.
Roll on 2100!
The Future Shock has to be the best one we've seen in a long time. A truly disturbing and twisty take on a couple of standard Sci Fi tropes. I know it's hard to write a good FS and a lot of the time it's less about shocking and more about delivering a gruesome pun but this one definitely deserves a couple of reads.
As for next week's line up. If the postie has trouble delivering it then I think I might end up seriously throwing teddies out of the pram! :o
I was a bit disappointed over all with the Prog.
Dredd I have already commented on wrt to the Stupid Gun. Dredd leaving Linus in the Cursed Earth also seemed strange. Surely he should have sentenced him the cubes.
Survival Geeks and Mechastopheles both just seemed to end without any real point to them. What Sam did to the Final Girls didn't sit too well with me.
The Order managed to lose me right at the end. Will have to go back over it again
Quote from: Magnetica on 17 September, 2018, 12:10:33 PM
Dredd leaving Linus in the Cursed Earth also seemed strange
Not sure this made much sense either, but there's precedent:
(https://i.imgur.com/6ybYxpC.png?2)
Yeah, that's how I read it too
Gotta say it's a real thrill to see two local Belfast lads and Belfast Sector 13 group members: Mark McCann and Adam Brown having a future shock printed this week. Adam has done two covers recently also for the Megazine. Well done guys. Z
Quote from: Frank on 17 September, 2018, 01:13:48 PM
Quote from: Magnetica on 17 September, 2018, 12:10:33 PM
Dredd leaving Linus in the Cursed Earth also seemed strange
Not sure this made much sense either, but there's precedent:
(https://i.imgur.com/6ybYxpC.png?2)
Quote from: Proudhuff on 17 September, 2018, 01:17:03 PM
Yeah, that's how I read it too
Dredd left Booth in the Cursed Earth after considering that he had served a third of his 100 year suspended animation sentence and put him to work on the farm to give something back i.e. to rebuild a little of the world he had destroyed.
Plus he was in the middle of a mercy mission and presumably didn't want any passengers. (Although there would have been nothing to stop him going back for him later).
Linus, on the other hand is a current perp, having been the instigator of a plot against the Judges. Dredd doesn't even leave him in the charge of someone in the Cursed Earth, he just literally leaves him there. What is to stop him from further plots against the Judges? Presumably nothing as I guess we shall see in later installments.
Doesn't the precedent mean it makes even less sense?! Booth later came back at the head of an army and explicitly taunted Dredd about what a terrible and ineffectual judgement he'd made by simply leaving him in the Cursed Earth - why would Dredd go and make the same mistake a second time?
Quote from: ZenArcade on 17 September, 2018, 02:27:37 PM
Gotta say it's a real thrill to see two local Belfast lads and Belfast Sector 13 group members: Mark McCann and Adam Brown having a future shock printed this week. Adam has done two covers recently also for the Megazine. Well done guys. Z
I had a chat with Mark at Lawgiver too and he never mentioned any of this! Well done lads, it is nice to have a new pair of droids commissioned.
#PraiseTharg.
Exactly. Having already established that a live Booth would be a rallying point for anti-judge groups, Dredd leaves his judge-killing biological son alive. It makes absolutely no sense.
The confusion regarding Dredd leaving Linus in the Cursed Earth could be my fault, sorry. Obviously I'm not the writer, so I could be completely wrong here, but the way I read it was that Dredd was leaving Linus to bleed to death, he's virtually had his hand blown off & there's a massive pool of blood seeping into the ground around him. I probably should have made that clear to Abby Bulmer because there isn't as much blood evident on Linus in those panels when he's running from Dredd as I intended, but as I say, that's my fault not hers. I could be completely wrong, tho, & there may be plans to bring him back.
Wow - it's not often you get the artist replying to our inane witterings (speaking for myself anyway). Thanks for taking the time.
No its probably my fault - you did indeed depict Linus sitting in a pool of blood, and had clearly show his hand being ripped apart on page 3, and then blood pouring from it on page 5.
I had just assumed that he would somehow survive. It is also we are used to Dredd dispensing instant "justice". But your explanation makes sense, and actually that is more cruel.
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 17 September, 2018, 03:32:26 PM
Quote from: Magnetica on 17 September, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Dredd left Booth in the Cursed Earth after considering that he had served a third of his 100 year suspended animation sentence ... Linus, on the other hand is a current perp ...
Doesn't the precedent mean it makes even less sense?!
Staz Johnson folding his many angles down into four-dimensions to intervene in human affairs makes the point irrelevant, but I was saying Dredd's initial decision regarding Booth didn't make much sense.
Thematically, it's sort of neat*, but the Pat Mills of even four or five years later (and
definitely the Pat Mills of today) would have gleefully dispatched the genocidal wee prick without a second thought.
* Which is good enough for me. Apart from the fact Pat Mills is a genius, THAT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED is my least favourite school of criticism. As long as something's fun, I couldn't care less. It's all just stuff made up by a man for money - even Faulkner. Not a dig at the wonderful Magnetica; just my personal preference
I took it as a death sentence... a painful slow one with echoes of his dad.
But yeah, the gate is still open for a rescue mission by some fanatics and Booth as a rallying point for the democrats, or taken in by a big-chinned family and he leads the Eustace Clan against Dredd, lots of room for a bit of Dredd-taunting by a baddy...always a good thing Shirley?
[spoiler]SPOILERS, SWEETIES!!! [/spoiler]
Spoilers should be assumed in prog review threads...
Not sure if it was having a Wagner masterclass hit the mat at the same time in the Meg, but the ending of Dredd fell flat for me.
As others have said, the Stupid Gun served no purpose - the idea of stupifying people in order to create more Booth supporters would have been fun, or just used to launch an attack on all those intellectuals and exprets "to bring em down to our level", but nothing.
Dredd's reference to "End your days out here like your dad" suggests he assumes Linus will survive. Dredd also knows the reporters (who should hve been cubed on their very first appearance!) have footage of Dredd confessing that, not only did Booth survive until recently, but that his son exists? Way to soothe the Sons of Booth problem!
Sons of Booth is a great idea, but the execution has not worked for me at all
The stand out for me was the Future Shock. Can't remember the last time I enjoyed one of these...really good stuff - writing and art.
The rest...well, bring on prog 2100!
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 18 September, 2018, 06:13:56 PM
Spoilers should be assumed in prog review threads...
So why have a 'blackout' option? Up to recently posters were sure to cover the spoilers, lately some folk just seem to not bother.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 18 September, 2018, 06:13:56 PM
Spoilers should be assumed in prog review threads...
Thanks
Jim
Quote from: geronimo on 18 September, 2018, 09:38:25 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 18 September, 2018, 06:13:56 PM
Spoilers should be assumed in prog review threads...
So why have a 'blackout' option? Up to recently posters were sure to cover the spoilers, lately some folk just seem to not bother.
The spoiler tags are used extensively in film and tv threads (because they often deal with multiple films/series and someone might not have seen a specific movie/episode) but in the Prog
review threads, the assumption is that you've read the prog.
The spoiler tags are used extensively in film and tv threads (because they often deal with multiple films/series and someone might not have seen a specific movie/episode) but in the Prog review threads, the assumption is that you've read the prog.
[/quote]
Ok, thank you, excuse my nieveness.
Yes the spoiler tags are used a bit unevenly on the Prog review thread, but as Jim says it's kinda par for the course to see spoilers on a spoiler thread.
The thing is, using spoiler tags gets in the way if we want to have a decent discussion about something that happened in the Prog. And having a discussion is sort of the point.
To be clear — I'm not trying to be a dick about this! I suppose if we had a FAQ somewhere, this should be in it. For general purpose discussion threads, spoiler tags are definitely appropriate. When the thread is specific (Prog so-and-so, GoT Series 8 Episode 5, or whatever) then the assumption is that you'll have seen/read the material under discussion.
I also had a a WTF moment at the end of Dredd, which marred a story that I was otherwise enjoying - even if he was bleeding out, Dredd would either put a bullet in him to make sure, or patch him up to serve his time (even if it ment cryogenic freezing till they could save him). The stupid gun was also a bizarre reverse-Chekov
Mechastopheles never really grabbed me - nice concepts, but I don't know which of these people I'm supposed to care about or why.
Survival Geeks continue to delight - funny script with distinct characters and references that are more than just "hey - remember this?", and absolutely gorgeous art - best humour strip for ages.
It must be so hard to come up with a new shocking future shock idea*, but this was a good 'un - hope to see more from these newcomers
I won't pretend to have a full grasp on The Order, but I really enjoy it, I could look at Burns' art all day.
yup - a very decent crop of thrills
*last year's thought bubble pitchfest (won by the story published a month or two ago about a scientist using human fat for energy and ending with her about to use her unborn baby to continue her experiments) didn't seem to impress Matt Smith much on the day - I think he thought it was a bit near the knuckle tastewise, but it was a clear winner because it was the only pitch that elicited a genuine gasp of shock and horror from the audience when she read out the final reveal
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 18 September, 2018, 11:14:54 PM
I suppose if we had a FAQ somewhere, this should be in it.
It's almost as if we need some "forum rules". Oh wait...
https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=26167.0
Enjoyed the prog, both The Order and Mechastopheles ended like there should be more to come. The Future Shock was ok. I also liked the way Dredd played out (maybe more Booth to come later)
Quote from: Magnetica on 18 September, 2018, 11:23:38 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 18 September, 2018, 11:14:54 PM
I suppose if we had a FAQ somewhere, this should be in it.
It's almost as if we need some "forum rules". Oh wait...
https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=26167.0
So spoilers [spoiler]should[/spoiler] be used on comics [spoiler]less than one month old[/spoiler]...
Yeah. Sorry, but that's bollocks in relation to the prog review thread — it appears under the category of 'Spoilers', so clearly spoilers should be expected.
Yes that's right; Sheridan read the rules again mate - it says [spoiler]anything in the spoiler section is exempt from the policy.[/spoiler]
I agree about the ending of Dredd. Leaving Booth alive AND allowing those reporters to film what went down seems like bad judgement, but maybe Dredd and Hershey are playing a longer game here.
Weekly Survival Geeks continues to be a pleasant way to spend 90 seconds or so of my life. Neil Googe's art is just incredible. The panels where Sam gets drenched in gore are amazing.
I'm not bothered about Order or Mecha, but that Future Shock was dark, man.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 18 September, 2018, 11:15:10 PMThe stupid gun was also a bizarre reverse-Chekov
Heh.
Great prog, sometimes the ones before jumping-on editions are a bit flat and filler-ridden but no such problems here
Dredd opens with a satisfyingly
meaty first couple of pages. And you know what, I'm gonna say that TC Eglington knows
exactly what he's doing having Dredd leave Linus out in the Cursed Earth (and the reporters at large) - because there are further twists to come.
Look, I'm a glass-half-full kinda guy!
SG has more very welcome gore and finishes the story with a nice flourish, even though I was hoping for a bit more backstory from some of the Slashers.
And after the first one only appeared at the end of last week's installment, this time round Sam's socks gain a second stripe. Am I missing a reference..?
Mechastopheles has been a joy to read, an ingenious fusion of thrills, humour and of course great artwork. Surely this isn't
the end?!
Oh that's a nasty little
Future Shock, a great riff on the old theme of time-looping. I love the idea of an internment facility where the personnel can act with impunity because it's classified as 'not in our dimension'!
Finally, not the final panel that those who dislike
The Order will want to see! Personally I'm up for more but I do think this book has lost a bit of focus. Perhaps the next one should bring it to a conclusion..?
Right, that's it. I am now officially in
Jumping On Mode.
This series of The Order?
The cover was pretty good, I thought. A nice striking image.
I really enjoyed the ending of Dredd but think there's more yet to come.
Lots of you have mentioned Dredd's odd judgement and the odd behaviour of the reporter. Could the exploding stupid gun be the cause? Some sort of low level decision hindering effect?
I thought the images of perps falling from the sky were a bit too graphic. In the old days this would have been handled with a satisfying 'SPLATT!'
Survival Geeks was fun again this week. This slasher plot was far more enjoyable than the Dr Who thing but I really don't like any of the main characters. Maybe the should develop into slightly more sympathetic leads?
Mechastopheles continues to play all the right notes just not necessarily in the right order.
The Future Shock was very good. I thought the script was a little clunky. The dialogue didn't quite flow for me. A minor niggle though, it was a strong story.
I enjoyed The Order as always, mainly because it's full of bonkers energy. Christ knows what's going on but it's still enertaining me for now.
Quote from: norton canes on 20 September, 2018, 10:17:29 AM
SG has more very welcome gore and finishes the story with a nice flourish, even though I was hoping for a bit more backstory from some of the Slashers.
And after the first one only appeared at the end of last week's installment, this time round Sam's socks gain a second stripe. Am I missing a reference..?
In fact, by the top panel of the penultimate page they've gained a
third stripe. What's going on? We want answers, drokk it!
The Booth Conspiracy didn't quite stick the landing, mainly because the Even Stupider Gun subplot didn't go anywhere* - we only got one panel of its effects, and really none of Linus' titular conspiracy had any pay off. Unless of course we take the title to instead refer to Dredd's ruse, which is quite cool; mind you, that was a drokk-up to, one that left at least four judges moronified.
OTOH Linus' punishment seems perfectly apt to me, and is in line with a long history of Dredd making stupid sentencing decisions, choosing poetic justice over a swift bullet to the head, and thus leaving Owen Krysler, P. J. Maybe, R. L. Booth and countless others free to menace him again. As to Malik & Co, presumably they are free to go since they'd set Linus up on Dredd's instruction. On the question of incriminating footage, well Dredd also has a history of wanting the truth to come out - after an appropriate interval.
There are some real positives to take from this story, and the mild disappointment I felt at the end: first, I was invested in this storyline, I was busily speculating about how it would end - it was the first story I read this week, which hasn't happened with Dredd for quite a while. This one felt well integrated into Dredd's world, it had memorable (and surviving) supporting characters that weren't Judges, ex-Judges or foreign Judges, and despite employing the over-used Baddie: The Next Generation reveal, it felt fairly momentous. These are all good signs for the Eglington as a up-and-coming writer, and for the strip in general. I hope we see Linus again - and definitely Malik.
*The Stupid Gun was always nonsense, even as a kid I couldn't work out why it was any better than any other gun - but expanded to a larger area of effect, and in Linus' hands, it actually had a point: not just removing lots of judges, but making Justice Dept look stupid. Even the alternative, some kind of ironic misfire highlighting Linus' stupidity, didn't really happen.
Quote from: TordelBack on 21 September, 2018, 01:33:11 PM
OTOH Linus' punishment seems perfectly apt to me, and is in line with a long history of Dredd making stupid sentencing decisions, choosing poetic justice over a swift bullet to the head, and thus leaving Owen Krysler, P. J. Maybe, R. L. Booth and countless others free to menace him again.
What should Dredd have done re: Owen Krysler or Bad Bob Booth? Had they specifically committed any crimes they could be sentenced for (well, Booth had, but through no fault of his own his punishment had encountered technical difficulties). Following the law, Dredd should perhaps have brought Owen back to MC1, but that would likely have just let him bring disaster to the mega-city in a longer, drawn-out way. Re: Booth, Dredd didn't have the time or resources to carry out a more effective sentence.
He left both essentially at liberty, or at best in the care of distinctly unreliable gaolers. A weird robot and a farm? It was bad judgement which came back to bite him, as he later admitted in both cases.
I'm in the "Dredd either has a plan or is giving some sort of homage to that early prog" camp re that Dredd ending. I don't think he would have missed those reporters standing there though, so it must be part of a plan. I've really enjoyed this run though. Here's hoping we return to this in the future.
There was a comment earlier about how ladies are portrayed in SG. Overall the art's great and this is a pleasure to have in the prog. I sort of know what the earlier comment's getting at though.
Lovely Future Shock there. Nice and dark!
Quite liking Mechawotsit. Hopefully we're to see more.
I do get a bit lost with The Order though. Should probably do a re-read at some point.
Quote from: DrJomster on 21 September, 2018, 10:39:23 PM
I'm in the "Dredd either has a plan or is giving some sort of homage to that early prog" camp re that Dredd ending. I don't think he would have missed those reporters standing there though...
Seeing as they only were there because he sent them to Booth with the fake footage which he had them shoot, I'd say it's a certainty.
Linus, not Booth. Apologies.
Quote from: TordelBack on 22 September, 2018, 09:24:32 AM
Quote from: DrJomster on 21 September, 2018, 10:39:23 PM
I'm in the "Dredd either has a plan or is giving some sort of homage to that early prog" camp re that Dredd ending. I don't think he would have missed those reporters standing there though...
Seeing as they only were there because he sent them to Booth with the fake footage which he had them shoot, I'd say it's a certainty.
:D
I'm a little surprised at some of the criticisms of The Booth Conspiracy. It seemed like a perfectly good ending to me. I assume we won't be seeing Linus again, because he's been left to die on his own in one of the most hazardous places on Earth. It's not a lenient sentence, but a cruel one. Also, if he is dead, then I don't have any problem at all with him being (I'm still going to spoiler this despite the recent debate) [spoiler]the son of President Booth[/spoiler], because that isn't just a lame gimmick to make a recurring baddie more interesting (that kind of thing usually has the opposite effect for me), but a genuinely interesting emotional twist in the tale.
It also led directly to the undermining of Linus's credibility, and that's why the film crew was there -- not just to film Linus being arrested or killed, but to film him having a breakdown and offering to inform on all his subordinates. That footage is even more damaging to his movement than the loss of its leader and so many personnel.
Linus's entire plan, not just in this story but in all of his previous appearances, was always about PR -- making Justice Department look stupid or evil. Well, Dredd has finally won the PR battle an out-played Linus at his own game. I don't need to see a follow-up story; I think this is a satisfying conclusion to this whole arc.
As for the title, it works well as a double-meaning, as someone else said: Linus had his conspiracy, and Dredd had a better one. (It reminds me of Death of a Judge in prog 137, one of my all-time favourites.)
Yep, that's a very good reading there.
I should clarify that my mild disappointment relates solely to the general irrelevance of the Stupid Gun, on which many earlier panels were lavished: otherwise the storyline engaged me throughout, building nicely over a number of linked stories, well-integrated into Dredd's past and present, and with a real sense of weight and relevance. It relied too heavily on Hershpositon, but dear Grud that's a feature of almost every story since Chaos Day. All that aside, it's definitely one of the best stories of the post-Trifecta era.
And while I do agree that Dredd's intention within the story is a cruel sentence (and poetic justice to publicly leave Booth's half-mutie son is left bleeding in the wasteland his father created), I doubt it's the author's long term intention... this Son of Booth will rise again!