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The Political Thread

Started by The Legendary Shark, 09 April, 2010, 03:59:03 PM

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The Legendary Shark

If, and it's a big if, the politicians are beginning to maneuver themselves into an anti-central bank stance because the people are waking up to the fact that our governments are not in control of the money supply (and so, by extension, CANNOT be in control of their respective countries), then I expect some big banking heads to be ostensibly sacrificed to appease the masses. Perhaps even a few more presidents lost in accidents or high-profile politicians sacrificed on the altar of Very Bad Press as the Banksters attempt to reassert their position. If the Banksters feel threatened, they will further restrict the supply of money into the economy and their media allies will blame the governments. This is the time to be strong, and to look for solutions very different to the ones being offered by the Banksters. Never Trust A Banker.

This is all very interesting and could indeed be the beginning of the end of the central banks' grip on the governments of this world. I can only hope and pray, for all our sakes, that the population of Europe is finally cottoning on to the horrendous vampire attached to the very hearts of our democracies. Let your government create and control its own money supply and that vampire will wither and die to the benefit of virtually everyone.

The time is coming for a revolution fought not with bullets but with Truth. Arm yourselves with that truth and fire it at any politician or public servant you meet. That truth is that our government has abnegated its right to create and control the United Kingdom's money supply and handed it on to private banks. As a result, these private banks have an ungodly amount of control over the economy and, as a natural extension of that, control over society itself. If you want your elected politicians in control of your society and not a bunch of bankers you've never heard of, then campaign for this one simple thing: Let MY government create and control MY country's money.

Don't take my word for it. If you want to do your own research on this most important of issues, here are a few key words to get you started:

Jekyll Island
President Woodrow Wilson "A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit..."
executive order 11110
http://www.michaeljournal.org/lesson4.htm
http://www.prosperityuk.com/prosperity/articles/bankchaos.html
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stacey

Quote from: pauljholden on 10 May, 2010, 12:18:33 PM
Quote from: stacey on 10 May, 2010, 12:14:21 PM
I wish they would just sort it all out and stopping posting pictures of Nick Clegg everywhere wearing his suit. It is playing havoc with my libido, he's not even that pretty - why's he so sexy?

This is my perfectly logical and reasonable assessment of current political shennigans. I'm off for a cold shower and to stay away from teh News for a couple of hours!

Is it because if you got into bed with him, you know you could make him do anything you liked? (badoom tish)

hehehe, but also, NOT helping! :-D

-pj

Peter Wolf

Quote from: Dandontdare on 10 May, 2010, 01:55:52 PM
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 10 May, 2010, 01:25:25 PM
An investigation into Goldman Sachs would have saved the European economy 750 billion.

An investigation wouldn't save anything, only the potential action taken as a result of it. What do you suggest should have been done to save this whopping amount? Is this the same sort of maths that gave you the "we'd save £120 billion by withdrawing from the EU" figure?

I thought i made it clear that the 120 billion was a typo and i meant 12 billion ?

Pay attention at the back !

I suggest an investigation into the banking fraud/embezzlement which would in turn uncover the fraud and then in turn it would have saved the taxpayer money.The result of a successful investigation would result in criminal charges against Goldman Sucks and their assets siezed and frozen until the investigation is complete.

So Ok the 750 billion would have to be allocated to bailing out various countries until the investigation was complete but in theory it would be returnable to the taxpayer and it would be deducted from the accounts of Goldin Sacks.

*

BTW LS there are extremely suspicious circumstances surrounding the 1000 point drop in the Dow Jones Index last Friday which coincided with the meeting that was to decide and approve the 750 Euro bailout fund.

Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

Jim_Campbell

Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

COMMANDO FORCES

#634
Here's a small thing that has been bugging me since the election was known to be heading into a hung government.
All we get from the Labour lot at the moment is lets have PR. I don't recall them wanting it at any election since 97 when they had a landslide victory (I voted Labour then as I was sick of the sleaze and no-one being man (or woman) enough to stand down as an MP). Every election since they could have said lets do PR this time, as no-one could have stopped them, with their majority.
Now they don't get a lanslide victory and the white hankies are out, "WE DEMAND PR", you have to laugh. PR will mean that one lot are never in charge, could this be the reason Labour didn't want it in the last few elections  ;)

Also listening to and watching the news (I include the :lol: impartial :lol: BBC in this) it seems that many backbenchers from both Labour and Conservative parties don't want PR. You have to laugh don't you  ::)

COMMANDO FORCES

GOODBYE GORDON BROWN but not the Labour party, yet!

Peter Wolf

#636
Quote from: Dandontdare on 10 May, 2010, 01:55:52 PM
What do you suggest should have been done to save this whopping amount?

Correctly identify and find the cause of the problem

Dig a very large hole out in the middle of nowhere.No particular location as any will do providing it fits the criteria.

Place the cause of the problem into the above hole.

Add generous amounts of Quicklime

Fill the hole up again with the soil you excavated from it and level it off.

Then forget about it.
Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

Robin Low

Quote from: Peter Wolf on 11 May, 2010, 03:40:33 AM
Quote from: Dandontdare on 10 May, 2010, 01:55:52 PM
What do you suggest should have been done to save this whopping amount?

Correctly identify and find the cause of the problem

Dig a very large hole out in the middle of nowhere.No particular location as any will do providing it fits the criteria.

Place the cause of the problem into the above hole.

Add generous amounts of Quicklime

Fill the hole up again with the soil you excavated from it and level it off.

Then forget about it.

An elegantly and precisely phrased post, and rather amusingly tempting, if unpractical. Just need to correctly identify the cause or causes now.

Regards

Robin

Dandontdare

Quote from: Peter Wolf on 10 May, 2010, 05:17:06 PM
I suggest an investigation into the banking fraud/embezzlement which would in turn uncover the fraud and then in turn it would have saved the taxpayer money.The result of a successful investigation would result in criminal charges against Goldman Sucks and their assets siezed and frozen until the investigation is complete.

Hard to know where to start with this nonsense. Who would prosecute the case? In which jurisdiction? Who would the actual defendants be? What would the charges be? Remember that many of the sharp practices of the banking industry may look like fraud or corruption to a normal reasoanble observer, but aren't actually illegal. A prosecution would also cost millions and take months if not years, all at the expense of the taxpayer.

Quote from: Peter Wolf on 10 May, 2010, 05:17:06 PM
So Ok the 750 billion would have to be allocated to bailing out various countries until the investigation was complete but in theory it would be returnable to the taxpayer and it would be deducted from the accounts of Goldin Sacks.
Goldman Sachs don't have a big bank vault full of cash, they actually have very few assets at all. They generate vast profits by moving other people's money around. In the unlikely event that you could bring a successful case against them, the moment this became clear, the company would instantly crash and be worth precisely zilch.

Now destroying the company may be a good thing in the long run, but it would cost the taxpayer a lot of money, and generate nothing.

Delingpole

Does anyone remember the Lib Lab Flab alliance? I think the fatties could make all the difference.

Peter Wolf

Quote from: Dandontdare on 11 May, 2010, 10:54:26 AM


Hard to know where to start with this nonsense. Who would prosecute the case? In which jurisdiction? Who would the actual defendants be? What would the charges be? Remember that many of the sharp practices of the banking industry may look like fraud or corruption to a normal reasoanble observer, but aren't actually illegal. A prosecution would also cost millions and take months if not years, all at the expense of the taxpayer.



Why is it nonsense ?

Articles :

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=investigate+goldman+sachs&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6A9&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&prmd=n&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=O0PpS6r3MZ_SmgOY56jjDA&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CC4QsQQwAw

This is the latest on the ongoing effort to audit the federal reserve:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3zPPiAFVPs4J:www.chrismartenson.com/forum/audit-fed-bill-trouble-ron-paul-calls-our-support/39190+ron+paul+withdraws+support+from+auditing+the+fed&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

Read the comments especially the final comment which summarises it pretty well.

I havent got time to address any of your other points right now but i am sure you dont think that leaving things as they are is a viable option and its the only way to sort out the mess concerning the Derivatives bubble before it goes POP!!! with MASSIVE financial consequences.Also it is very difficult to know exactly where to start.


Quote from: Robin Low on 11 May, 2010, 09:38:52 AM
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 11 May, 2010, 03:40:33 AM
Quote from: Dandontdare on 10 May, 2010, 01:55:52 PM
What do you suggest should have been done to save this whopping amount?

Correctly identify and find the cause of the problem

Dig a very large hole out in the middle of nowhere.No particular location as any will do providing it fits the criteria.

Place the cause of the problem into the above hole.

Add generous amounts of Quicklime

Fill the hole up again with the soil you excavated from it and level it off.

Then forget about it.

An elegantly and precisely phrased post, and rather amusingly tempting, if unpractical. Just need to correctly identify the cause or causes now.

Regards

Robin

Its good to agree on something Robin. :lol:
Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

Dandontdare

i agree that it's difficult to know where to start and that the current set up is not viable, but investigations or legal cases against these banks would not suddenly cause all those billions to flow back to the taxpayer.

And as the current (probably failing) prosecution of two GS execs shows, it's enormously difficult to put topgether a successful prosecution, even in the most blatant of examples. And again, if it ever looked like being possible, the banks' shares would just plummet until there was no money left in the company to seize.

The Legendary Shark

"Nonsense?" You think these banks are all out to make the world a better place for everyone, Dan? You think that the banks have a God given right to charge us for using our own money? You think the banks are entitled to hold entire countries to ransom? You think the banks should be allowed to create and control the money supply you elected a government (ie, Chancellor) to create and control? You think the banks are totally immune to the temptations afforded by being in total control of trillions of dollars? We should just leave things as they are because... well, why would anyone want to leave things as they are?

Banks are not intrinsically evil; society needs banks because society needs money. Money can be compared to water; we all need it, and for some to hoard and manipulate it while others starve is an abomination against humanity. Do the banks really need to operate the way they do? If you go for a mortgage or loan, the "money" the bank "lends" you simply doesn't exist until you ask for it. Then it becomes a debt, negative money if you will. You give your hard earned cash to the bank to clear this non-existent debt and also pay interest on top of that for the pleasure.

Is that fair? Of course not, both the Bible and the Koran call this abhorrent practice "usury" and class it as a sin. Muslim banks don't pay or charge interest because it's against their religion. Christian banks don't give a toss about stuff like that and employ usury as something to be applauded and increased. Even the people who wrote the Bible and the Koran understood that the banking system we seem to think is so reputable these days is actually a scam. We need to re-learn the wisdom of the ancients and start treating money as a necessity of life, not an end in itself.

Love of money is, after all, the root of all evil.

I favour the following option:

1: Issue a declaration of amnesty against all politicians and bankers involved in the practice of keeping governments away from their right to print and control the money supply of their individual nations. There are only two sides to be on; debt-free money or debt-based money. Anyone who opts to be on the side of debt-based money will be declared a criminal and prosecuted accordingly. Anyone coming down on the side of government controlled and created, debt-free money will be issued a complete pardon.

2: A series of open-ended, rolling strikes (like the ones the Spanish employed to stop their government sending troops to the illegal Iraq war), marches, flash-mobs, rolling roadblocks, civil disobedience, sit-ins and boycotts will be continued until the debt-based money supporters resign from office or are arrested. (It is important here not to boycott the high street banks themselves, as any direct move against the banks will give them the excuse to reduce the money supply into the economy and blame the resulting financial hardships on the boycotts/rolling strikes.)

3: Once the government begins creating and controlling the UK's money supply, we will still pay back all those bonds/gilts that people have paid for with "real" money. Those people who took money from their bank accounts to pay for government bonds, or gilts, will still be paid back. Those banks who took government bonds/gilts without paying for them with real money (ie, those who have yet to pay or who used debt-money (created at the push of a button or stroke of a pen) will not be paid back as this money never existed in the first place and so will not be missed by the banks.)

4: Once government created, debt-free money begins flowing into the economy it will eventually flush out the old debt-based currency (a little like a blood transfusion). High street banks will be ordered to work towards full reserve banking (ie, they can only lend out the money they can cover with their reserves). This can be phased in over a number of years, meaning that the banks can start with 10% reserve banking for the first year, 20% reserve for the second year and so on. Social banking (mortgages for family homes, loans for private or home use) will be handled by the newly government reclaimed Bank of England for zero interest - only a handling fee for handling the paperwork etc.

5: Let society evolve without the constant drain of the current banking system sapping all our resources.

It can be done without bloodshed or society collapsing. It's not rocket surgery.
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Dandontdare

#643
I haven't read your full post yet, but the answer to the questions in your first paragraph is a resounding NO - if I thought any of those things, I would have said so, and they are pretty much the opposite of my own views. Don't assume to tell me what I think and then criticise me for it.

The "nonsense" was the naive idea that an investigation of Goldmans would allow the taxpayer to recoup $750bn.

The Legendary Shark

#644
If I'd assumed, I'd have presented each of those opening sentences without question marks.

I'm not getting at anybody's beliefs, I just present my own in as forceful manner as possible. If this upsets anyone, then that's a Good Thing as this is a subject that we should all be upset about.

Nothing personal, Dan.
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