Star Wars Episode IX

[TordelBack]

Leaving aside the many numerous non-canon precedents, there's a long-standing argument that Obi-Wan heals Luke a bit after he gets whacked by the Tusken Raiders. I don't think you can say one way or the other from what's on the screen, but given their activities in AotC Sandpeople do seem to be more of a threat than they might have appeared initially, so it's possible Luke was more than just napping. Similarly, Palpatine may have had something to do with Anakin surviving his injuries in RotS - he certainly seems to make a similar gesture as Obi-Wan does in ANH.

In the same line, Qui-Gon (accidentally) puts Jar Jar to sleep in TPM by touch, perhaps implying some sort of energy transfer ability.

And I don't see how Ani being potentially able to heal Padme takes away from his story - it's not like his choking injured her particularly badly (the awful Polis Massan medical droids report that there is nothing physically wrong with her), that's just a lie Palpatine tells him.

It's also always worth remembering that according to both Yoda and Mace Windu, the Jedi's ability to "use the Force" has been diminished in Episodes II & III. Once the Force has 'awakened' again in Episode VII, and created q whole new unrecedcented thing in a 'Force dyad',  it shouldn't be as surprise when new or more powerful abilities pop up. 

Remember we didn't see telekinesis, Force Ghosts, precognition, Force speed/jumping or telepathic contact between living beings until Empire Strikes Back: there is no manual.

[JamesC]

The Force is a mystical energy field that can be tapped into - I don't see why this means that everyone can/must use it in the same way.

Just because Rey can heal, why does that mean that Anakin must be able to?
A surgeon took my apendics out - I wouldn't have wanted to do it myself. But we both have hands.

[Hawkmumbler]

A space wizard did it.

[Professor Bear]

Finally got to see this and was surprised at what a mess it was, and how much cringe was on display.  It felt like a Star Wars movie that you would catch glimpses of in a Simpsons episode, especially that first four or so minutes which is just "Emperor's back" that in theory probably seemed like they were just ripping off the band-aid of establishing the big bad guy of the movie/franchise and getting it out of the way immediately because it was either going to be a stumbling block for the audience or it wasn't, buuuuuut... that doesn't mean it was good that they did this, or that the film would ever recover if people had a problem with it, and I did have a problem with it because it was cheap and lazy.  I don't care for the excuse that they couldn't do anything else, they are literally paid millions to come up with something we, the audience, would not expect, and they settled for this.
Clearly I was already wavering by the time everyone in the Rebellion starts saying "The Emperor has been pulling the strings all along!" but that was the point the film lost me - though it got me back a couple of times thanks to the same shit-meets-wall strategy that makes it such an absolute slabber of a film, although it also lost me again at several points for the exact same reason.

Starting with Star Trek Into Darkness, I made the observation that JJA's movies were increasingly derivative of the Uncharted video game series, complete with entire scenes and action setpieces taken from those games - JJA is particularly getting his money's worth out of those pirate ship levels in Uncharted 3 - so when the bandits guarding the Atlantis Of The Sands showed up I thought it was pushing things, but then like three minutes later, Ray is doing the third-person platforming thing inside the Death Star wreckage, complete with bright yellow pipes for her to shimmy along, then she finds the secret room containing the hidden relic, and then the villain shows up out of nowhere to nick the relic so they have to do a boss fight setpiece and I was like "fucking hell".  The bandits even show up on horseback later in the film for the action finale, just like in Uncharted 3 - someone needs to tell JJA there are other videogames.
I liked how the Emperor drains life like a space Dracula, so Ray kills him by using the space swords to make a space crucifix that drives him back before he gets killed by reflected sunlight - just like in a Castlevania videogame, so it's not just Uncharted JJA is playing these days, though I understand why he may not be versed in anything more recent as he's a very busy man.
I found the stuff with Leia crass.  I was just about okay with using stock footage of Carrie Fisher, but this felt like graverobbing.

Well anyway for all its noise and fury, this is probably the most forgettable Star Wars movie I've seen but I was happy without qualification to see Wicket's cameo at the end.  Now make me an Ewoks movie, you fucking cowards.

[wedgeski]

By the mid-point, I was surprised to find I was loving it, but it went a bit off the rails after Rey and Kylo's encounter near the Death Star wreckage. Their connection and how it played cinematically was the film's highlight. More than that, I can't be arsed, which says a lot. After TFA and Rogue One I felt like the Star Wars universe was firing on all cylinders, then TLJ left me cold, Solo felt paint-by-numbers, and ROS, while a perfectly enjoyable slice of meh, was nonetheless meh.

Launching into a new Skywalker trilogy without a planned three-film arc was nuts. Giving the middle-chapter director carte-blanche with the story was bordering on insane. I guess we'll have to hope that the franchise finds its next lease of life on TV.

[sheridan]

I found the stuff with Leia crass.  I was just about okay with using stock footage of Carrie Fisher, but this felt like graverobbing.

I thought the Carrie scenes were a good tribute to her (without using CGI to resurrect her) - I especially like how some of Leia's scenes were shared with actual Carrie Fisher's daughter (specifically - there's one bit where they use the footage they had of Carrie and the very next person on screen is Billie).

[radiator]

I didn't mind the healing stuff - that all makes perfect sense to me (apologies if this comes across as a bit reductive, but I took it to be a more maternal, nurturing aspect of the Force, what with the focus on Leia and all). However, I really didn't like the notion that the Force can literally resurrect the dead. What is it with JJ Abrams and undoing the death of his characters? He pulled this shit in Star Trek too. I find it such a story-breaking, world-breaking thing to do that just cheapens everything. Not a fan.

[shaolin_monkey]

If electric paddles can restart a heart in films, why can't the Force?

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

Maybe the little midichlorians themselves are being prompted into action, healing wounds like nanobots.

I didn't mind any of the new force powers and Jedi abilities, but it does beg the question why have they not been used before (and regularly, considering how useful they are) in most cases. Similar to the Holdo manoeuvre I suppose.

[spoiler]Like if the force ghosts can still wield the force in the real world as we see with Luke at one point, why don't they float onto the bridges of star destroyers and force slam all the crew for us, or get all the ghosts together and pile on Palpatine[/spoiler]

[radiator]

I think its the inherent limitations of the Star Wars franchise in general. It works as a broad space fantasy in a single film, or even a trilogy. But as soon as you start expanding it beyond that, it raises all sorts of weird questions about how it all works as a universe, the tech, how the Force works etc, and the answers to those questions can never be satisfying.

[radiator]

Like, a good example of this is in Attack of the Clones, when the characters go into a space bar, where there are TV screens showing a game of space football, and a shady character offers them space cigarettes. It just seems really lame that everything in the real word has to have a sci fi equivalent in the Star Wars universe. It makes the world seem really flimsy and unimaginative. The more it gets fleshed out, the more boring and humdrum it all seems.

[sheridan]

[spoiler]Like if the force ghosts can still wield the force in the real world as we see with Luke at one point, why don't they float onto the bridges of star destroyers and force slam all the crew for us, or get all the ghosts together and pile on Palpatine[/spoiler]

Luke did all that [spoiler]before he died, and it killed him.  I.E. he wasn't a force ghost when he pulled that stunt[/spoiler].

[sheridan]

Like, a good example of this is in Attack of the Clones, when the characters go into a space bar, where there are TV screens showing a game of space football, and a shady character offers them space cigarettes. It just seems really lame that everything in the real word has to have a sci fi equivalent in the Star Wars universe. It makes the world seem really flimsy and unimaginative. The more it gets fleshed out, the more boring and humdrum it all seems.

I'd agree totally with what you'd said if you hadn't used anti-disability language to say it.

[TordelBack]

Luke did all that [spoiler]before he died, and it killed him.  I.E. he wasn't a force ghost when he pulled that stunt[/spoiler].

Uh-uh, in TRoS Luke [spoiler]catches a lightsabre and (finally) levitates an X-Wing when he's a ghost[/spoiler].  In TLJ Yoda calls down lightning and whacks Luke with his stick.

It used to be argued that Obi-Wan physically helped Luke with the proton torpedo shot in ANH, rather than just 'advising' him, and the proposed original ending of RotJ had Obi-Wan (and Yoda) physically intervene in the final fight with Palpatine. This was (luckily) nerfed, and the ould lad tells Luke he can't get involved for unspecified reasons (of... balance)?

Nowadays we tend to view Obi-Wan's 'Strike me down and I'll become more powerful than ....' line as more metaphorical, an inspiration for Luke and a way of ensuring enmity for his father, but it may well originally have been intended to be an actual threat - and one that finds expression in JJ's raiding of Lucas' notes for TRoS, in the very McQuarrie throne room that it was supposed to have played out in.

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

Nowadays we tend to view Obi-Wan's 'Strike me down and I'll become more powerful than ....' line as more metaphorical, an inspiration for Luke and a way of ensuring enmity for his father, but it may well originally have been intended to be an actual threat - and one that finds expression in JJ's raiding of Lucas' notes for TRoS, in the very McQuarrie throne room that it was supposed to have played out in.

Interesting. I think I always thought of it being like 'I'll be an immortal omnipresent space ghost' when I was young (not in those exact words ), but as an adult I definitely pick up on the sense of martyrdom in the line a lot more than I did then. And I guess he's robbing Darth Vader of the satisfaction of breaking him whilst simultaneously doing the most Jedi thing he can, sacrificing himself for others. That must really have got up Vader's nose. Not that that last thought relates to the line itself.

I think its the inherent limitations of the Star Wars franchise in general. It works as a broad space fantasy in a single film, or even a trilogy. But as soon as you start expanding it beyond that, it raises all sorts of weird questions about how it all works as a universe, the tech, how the Force works etc, and the answers to those questions can never be satisfying.

I don't think Star Wars was necessarily destined to falter as the world was explored, the force powers for example already had enough definition for me as needed really by the end of the original trilogy, it didn't have to go too much further in that respect. But that's not to say you couldn't expand the force and explore it more, it just needed to be a bit more careful I think to avoid too many plot inconsistencies, and a situation where the writers have carte blanche to pull force powers out of their bottom as and when they think it'd be cool.

The prequels dealt with expansion of the force in a better way I think in places (It's been a while). Like supposed mountain monks that can slow their heart to 3 beats a minute, perhaps such an incredible power like resurrecting the dead should be restricted to people who have strived their entire life to be able to do it like one Señor Plagueis

I guess you're always going to have space bars with space beer and a space band and space chess and all that kind of thing. It can be done well, perhaps it's more the execution?