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2000 AD => General => Topic started by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 03:51:28 PM

Title: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
I was looking for a general thread where you might ask some question that might seem odd. Maybe "stupid questions" or something. Didn't really see anything like that, so I figured I'd start one. Just the kind of things you notice in stories that don't ever seem to be explained, or commented on in any way.

This may be one of them, or not. Maybe it's been explained or mentioned in some story I've just never read.

What's the deal with...
     Johnny Alpha's helmet?


a.  Judge Dredd has one, and Johnny wanted to keep up with the Judges.

b.  It keeps his head from getting bashed in, and/or is bullet and rad-proof.

c.  His brain's electrical activity generates alpha waves (emitted through his eyes). The helmet shields against and contains the excess radiation from dispersing, with might otherwise be detectable to anyone with the the right kind of scanner, so he can't be picked out of crowd or a hiding place.

d.  How the hell should I know? Go ask Carlos Ezquerra.

e.  It's practical for head-butting.

f.   Both  b. and e.

g.  No reason, it just looks cool.

h.  None of the above.

Essay portion:
  What's that odd-shaped nosecone thing on the front of his helmet over the center of his forehead?

  And what about those two oval-shaped raised pieces on either side?


Serious answers and jokes acceptable. Feel free to post your own questions that drive you nuts.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: I, Cosh on 15 April, 2017, 03:53:57 PM
G

Pt II. The pointy bit holds video recordings to verify contracts.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Andy Lambert on 15 April, 2017, 04:04:48 PM
I'm sure I read somewhere long ago that the front cone shape was supposed to resemble a dog's nose. I could be mistaken, but I'm sure I gained that info from somewhere which may not be entirely authentic.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 04:19:47 PM
Quote from: I, Cosh on 15 April, 2017, 03:53:57 PM
G

Pt II. The pointy bit holds video recordings to verify contracts.

That sounds vaguely familiar. I guess I could have asked why it has that keyhole-shaped slot there too.

It's a very oddly-shaped helmet, which is what got me thinking to whether there was some special purpose to it. For years I never even thought about it; I guess I just assumed helmets were the style for 2000 AD heroes (Dredd and Rogue both have them). But while Dredd and Rogue's make sense for protection and as part of a general issue uniform, S/D Agents have no standard uniforms.

But they DO need stinkin' badges! (... that would be the 'spaceghetti western' part ....)
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: BPP on 15 April, 2017, 04:23:05 PM
Classic rule of character design - be able to identify the character from their silhouette... Job done.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Steve Green on 15 April, 2017, 04:23:41 PM
b & g

When they were producing the TV bible Carlos retconned the domes either side to contain cameras as well, and there was a holoscreen dropping down in front of his eyes.

The nose camera has been there from the start, to record evidence.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6a/b0/d0/6ab0d01b920ee94bd331c3c2d0bea47e.jpg)

(http://www.2000ad.org/images/artwork/stronty_face2_screen.jpg)

Design wise, I think it just followed an insect-like theme - including the stripey top that he often wears.

The Starlord helmet varied a bit from the one that popped up after the merger with 2000AD, it had another dome in the centre, and a poster from an early concept had some little antennae either side of his eyes.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 04:26:08 PM
Quote from: Andy Lambert on 15 April, 2017, 04:04:48 PM
I'm sure I read somewhere long ago that the front cone shape was supposed to resemble a dog's nose. I could be mistaken, but I'm sure I gained that info from somewhere which may not be entirely authentic.

Maybe Johnny's mutation disabled his olfactory sense so he needs a prosthetic cyber-sniffer?
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 04:39:56 PM
Quote from: Steve Green on 15 April, 2017, 04:23:41 PM
b & g

When they were producing the TV bible Carlos retconned the domes either side to contain cameras as well, and there was a holoscreen dropping down in front of his eyes.

The nose camera has been there from the start, to record evidence.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6a/b0/d0/6ab0d01b920ee94bd331c3c2d0bea47e.jpg)

(http://www.2000ad.org/images/artwork/stronty_face2_screen.jpg)

Design wise, I think it just followed an insect-like theme - including the stripey top that he often wears.

The Starlord helmet varied a bit from the one that popped up after the merger with 2000AD, it had another dome in the centre, and a poster from an early concept had some little antennae either side of his eyes.

Ah, now it begins to make more sense. The exotic design wasn't intuitively apprehended. It does seem a lot bulkier than you'd expect for future tech, and I still wonder why the cam lens looks like a slot (or more precisely, like a keyhole) rather than a dot or tiny circle.

But video recording seems like it might make make a lot of sense in terms of documenting legal arrests or making positive I.D.s, because freelance extralegal warrant officers have to maintain certain verification and procedural standards to remain licensed S/D Agents.

It's funny that you see "insect", because I see "turtle".

Thanks for posting the actual graphic, Steve! Very helpful.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 04:47:42 PM
And now that I think of it, does the 'X-ray vision' effect come from something like emitting alpha particles/waves from his eyes and a resultant reflective effect in a spectral range that only Johnny's eyes can perceive? Like radar or sonar, only involving alpha waves?
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Steve Green on 15 April, 2017, 04:50:29 PM
Something like that.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 04:54:42 PM
Also just wondering if anyone knows a link to some substantial interview with Carlos Ezquerra? I'm extremely curious about what he has to say about his craft, and what his own personal philosophy or viewpoint might be regarding art, and so forth.

Another weird question. I often wonder if Ezquerra was influenced artistically by either Joe Kubert (seems quite possible, as he's popular in Europe) or Robert Crumb? I see little bits and pieces of both those artists in his work, somehow.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 05:03:54 PM
One question leads to another. You see a lot of Judge helmet replicas or custom jobs, anyone seen a Johnny Alpha helmet?
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Leigh S on 15 April, 2017, 05:15:32 PM
Mainly, it keeps the perm from getting too squished
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 05:27:28 PM
Yeah, that Alpha is a real hippie!  :lol:
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 06:27:41 PM
I had a short think about why the camera helmet might be so important to Johnny Alpha. It can't be that documentation is an actual requirement in order to collect a bounty on an outstanding warrant, because most S/D Agents don't seem to have them.

It could be that Johnny just recognizes the cam-helmet as a useful tool in getting the job done, and he personally believes in documenting his work. The camera could be useful for secondary purposes like later analysis, gathering visual evidence and clues leading to arrests. Perhaps there are also certain optical wavelengths that the camera can record that are otherwise outside the normal visual spectrum.

Another important reason might be to present recorded evidence of "first rights". If the bounty claim were to be contested by another S/D Agent as rightfully his or hers, video documentation could make the difference, and there may be instances of 'claim-jumping' other S/D Agents bounties after the first agent has done all the hard work. ("Whack him and steal his bounty.") In cases of a joint effort to apprehend by a team of S/D Agents, all the participating Agents would also be documented as a matter of video record.

And of course it allows positive visual ID of suspects by comparison of the warrant against the suspected perp.

Maybe there's even a secondary market for the VR gaming industry, something like a "YOU are a S/D Agent!" game for the home market.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Steve Green on 15 April, 2017, 07:20:30 PM
The camera is used as a plot device in a couple of strips.

There have been 4 helmets I know of.

The Termight One

http://www.termight.co.uk/helmet.html (http://www.termight.co.uk/helmet.html)


A cosplayer spotted on the forum

https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php?topic=37186.0 (https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php?topic=37186.0)


And the one I made a 3D model of and got printed out for the fan film.

(http://www.liveforfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/sd-3.jpg)

There was also another one someone was getting made, but don't have a pic of it.


So there are a few, it's just a bit trickier to make than the judge helmet.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 07:42:26 PM
Thanks again, Steve! You certainly have answers to questions.

Hey, is it just me, or...  does this one look like some kind of kinky Gerry Anderson parody ? I find it subtly disturbing on some level...

(http://www.termight.co.uk/images/stronty_helm3.jpg)
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 08:00:10 PM
Now this one looks... maybe a little too "pointy"? Slightly more angular, than rounded, in front? JMO, don't take it too seriously! The one above is obviously way too far in the opposite direction, but even the production design drawings Carlos did for the movie look different in shape (not just the circular parts which were revised as auxiliary cams, more of the overall shape) than what he drew in most of the 1980s stories. I guess it depends on which panel in which story you're looking at, and what angle his head's pointing, as well. I guess it always does tend to look different when viewed head-on, at 2/3 angle, or in straight profile. On the other hand, your actor is well-cast! And apart from the slightly-too-pointy cam lens part, this is overall the best version, as the "cheeks" look right, as well as what I can see of the top sides and back.
(http://www.liveforfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/sd-3.jpg)
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Steve Green on 15 April, 2017, 11:31:46 PM
I based it mainly on Carlos TV pilot proportions.

He gave it the thumbs up.

Also consulted with Jock, the first versions were more rounded, but looked too banana-like.

Can also get a bit front heavy, so it was slimmed down.

Carlos can draw it quite pointy as well.

(http://www.multiversitycomics.com/wp-content/themes/mvc/images/timthumb.php?src=http://multiversitystatic.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2014/02/2000-ad-prog-1869-strontium-dog.jpg&q=95&w=593&zc=1&a=t)

There's not a definitive version, it's just an adaptation of a comic that changes over time.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 15 April, 2017, 11:51:54 PM
Quote from: Steve Green on 15 April, 2017, 04:23:41 PM
b & g

When they were producing the TV bible Carlos retconned the domes either side to contain cameras as well, and there was a holoscreen dropping down in front of his eyes.

The nose camera has been there from the start, to record evidence.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6a/b0/d0/6ab0d01b920ee94bd331c3c2d0bea47e.jpg)

(http://www.2000ad.org/images/artwork/stronty_face2_screen.jpg)

Design wise, I think it just followed an insect-like theme - including the stripey top that he often wears.

The Starlord helmet varied a bit from the one that popped up after the merger with 2000AD, it had another dome in the centre, and a poster from an early concept had some little antennae either side of his eyes.

Jimmy Nail was obviously odds-on to play Johnny.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: TordelBack on 15 April, 2017, 11:56:46 PM
In 'Life and Death' Middenface refers to Johnny's reclaimed helmet as 'one of your buckets', implying he had several, so given how much the rest of his kit changes there's no reason there should be a single definitive version. It's not part of a uniform, it's a tool.

Also never try to understand Johnny's eyes in the terms set out in the story: as we all learnt in school,  if it was possible for a stream of high mass/ strong absorbtion Alpha particles to be sufficiently energetic to penetrate stone and body mass (cosmic rays, for example)  there would be enough ionising radiation to kill anything in their path long before they detected a hidden blaster. Whatever's going on in Johnny's Veerd Eyes it ain't Alpha particles (I've speculated his powers are psychic in nature and the glowing-eye-thing just a coincidental mutation, but that's just fanwanky head-canon).
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Dash Decent on 16 April, 2017, 12:37:07 AM
Quote from: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 06:27:41 PM
I had a short think about why the camera helmet might be so important to Johnny Alpha. It can't be that documentation is an actual requirement in order to collect a bounty on an outstanding warrant, because most S/D Agents don't seem to have them.

In the Strontium Dog audio "Fire from Heaven", Johnny plays back some footage of an old capture to a third party to see if they recognise the criminal.  He explains that it's a requirement that SD agents properly document the arrest.  McNulty butts in with a surprised "It is?", so it's obviously news to him.  Alpha explains it's a regulation more honoured in the breach, etc.

(As an aside, the audio also tallies with some of the other points made by positronic, e.g. in the old capture footage, Alpha states the date and says he is claiming the capture in advance of anyone else who makes a later claim.)
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 02:41:53 AM
Quote from: Steve Green on 15 April, 2017, 11:31:46 PM
I based it mainly on Carlos TV pilot proportions.

He gave it the thumbs up.

Also consulted with Jock, the first versions were more rounded, but looked too banana-like.

Can also get a bit front heavy, so it was slimmed down.

Carlos can draw it quite pointy as well.

(http://www.multiversitycomics.com/wp-content/themes/mvc/images/timthumb.php?src=http://multiversitystatic.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2014/02/2000-ad-prog-1869-strontium-dog.jpg&q=95&w=593&zc=1&a=t)

There's not a definitive version, it's just an adaptation of a comic that changes over time.

It's funny how things can affect your perception. Where I was originally seeing "turtle" (based mostly on the color scheme and rounded pads on JA's body armor and the two circular parts on the helmet) and you were seeing "insect", Andy Lambert pointed out the idea of a dog's snout, and ever since he did, now when looking at those full-profile panels Carlos drew, that's all I can see, with the camera serving as the nose. I'm thinking it looks something like a bull terrier.

But clearly in the TV bible design Carlos did for the helmet he's modified the surface curves of his original SD design, with an eye to practicality for prop fabrication, I think. The new design looks more real, and I guess designed more carefully, to maintain consistency when viewed from all angles. I guess the old design is still the one I have stuck in my mind, which seems more blunt and slightly more rounded.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 03:01:57 AM
Oh, and besides the dog's snout profile, there's also THIS that sticks in my head:
(http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122566&d=1403780003)
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 03:14:47 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 15 April, 2017, 11:56:46 PM
In 'Life and Death' Middenface refers to Johnny's reclaimed helmet as 'one of your buckets', implying he had several, so given how much the rest of his kit changes there's no reason there should be a single definitive version. It's not part of a uniform, it's a tool.

Also never try to understand Johnny's eyes in the terms set out in the story: as we all learnt in school,  if it was possible for a stream of high mass/ strong absorbtion Alpha particles to be sufficiently energetic to penetrate stone and body mass (cosmic rays, for example)  there would be enough ionising radiation to kill anything in their path long before they detected a hidden blaster. Whatever's going on in Johnny's Veerd Eyes it ain't Alpha particles (I've speculated his powers are psychic in nature and the glowing-eye-thing just a coincidental mutation, but that's just fanwanky head-canon).

Well, yes. Comic books are like that. If you insist on strict adherence to physics, you should probably find another hobby. If someone were to point out that the number of nuclear warheads necessary to flatten 80%+ percent of the North American continent would result in a cloud of atmospheric ash blotting out sunlight and years of attendant nuclear winter, then it pretty much puts the lie to any surviving Mega Cities, and so much for your Judge Dredd comic.

But people still like writing those books like "The Science of Superman", etc. We do find some amusement in having some kind of speculatively defined quasi-physics. It's just mental play.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 03:34:05 AM
I guess we should just acknowledge flat out that anything like the idea of radioactivity producing science-fiction mutations resembling sideshow oddities or superpowers is right out the window. Let's think about cancer, leukemia, and the survivors of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki instead. If you want the real world, then forget about 2000 AD, because 98% of the series are balderdash. You should be reading Keiji Nakazawa's Barefoot Gen.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: TordelBack on 16 April, 2017, 08:28:41 AM
Well quite. But I was only addressing your own earlier musing:

Quote from: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 04:47:42 PM
And now that I think of it, does the 'X-ray vision' effect come from something like emitting alpha particles/waves from his eyes and a resultant reflective effect in a spectral range that only Johnny's eyes can perceive? Like radar or sonar, only involving alpha waves?

Seemed like an effort to explain the effect in terms of real-world physics, which I was cautioning against.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 09:18:59 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 16 April, 2017, 08:28:41 AM
Well quite. But I was only addressing your own earlier musing:

Quote from: positronic on 15 April, 2017, 04:47:42 PM
And now that I think of it, does the 'X-ray vision' effect come from something like emitting alpha particles/waves from his eyes and a resultant reflective effect in a spectral range that only Johnny's eyes can perceive? Like radar or sonar, only involving alpha waves?

Seemed like an effort to explain the effect in terms of real-world physics, which I was cautioning against.

Well, I thought that's what your explanation was attempting to do. When operating in these science-fictional universes that have basic built-in premises (without which the story could not exist) you need to adapt a modified SF version of physics that could possibly fit into that world, because you work backwards from an established premise. Johnny Alpha exists in that world, and has the ability to see through solid objects; so you need to work backwards and find a kind of quasi-physics that works with that. And -- correct me if I'm wrong in this -- I do believe the stories actually establish that his eyes emit alpha particles, or am I just totally mis-remembering that detail?

If you take the opposite tack and say "well, the stories must be wrong then, because that's not the way physics work in the real world", then you have to admit that Johnny Alpha does not really exist, because exposure to Strontium 90 radiation in the real world would not produce the kind of birth mutations seen in Strontium Dog's universe. Cancer and leukemia, yes -- but not Strontium Dogs.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: TordelBack on 16 April, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
I'm just glad you're here to explain these things.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 10:06:05 AM
It's all in fun, isn't it? Just a way to amuse yourself by buying into the fictional world being served up as entertainment.

"I want to believe!"
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 10:17:14 AM
It's not as though I'm inventing something new here though, is it? The Marvel Universe Handbook is filled with those kind of outrageous attempts at creating a theory of pseudo-physics to justify the existence of their characters.

Like godlike alien Asgardians with supermassively dense atomic structures who somehow are able to walk on normal floors made for human beings without leaving a trail of deep footprint impressions.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: JOE SOAP on 16 April, 2017, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 09:18:59 AMthen you have to admit that Johnny Alpha does not really exist

I think we can all admit that and irradiated children don't grow-up to be funny Picasso paintings with mad skills.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Magnetica on 16 April, 2017, 10:53:01 AM
If I am remembering my O Level Physics correctly, Alpha particles can only travel a few centimetres before they are absorbed by the air. So they wouldn't be a very effective probe.

Not sure what the feedback mechanism back to Johnny's eyes would be either.

Basically it doesn't pay to start looking into these things too much. So long as the story is consistent with its own established rules, then I can go with that.

WRT cameras in the helmet, well they have never featured in the comic, so they don't exist in that. If a TV or film adaptation wants to go with that, then fine.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Steve Green on 16 April, 2017, 11:00:23 AM
The nose camera features in the comic.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Steve Green on 16 April, 2017, 11:03:38 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7S6koRX0l1w/RpZkqFYc02I/AAAAAAAABIQ/yZ9y_VdVgyc/s320/Helmet.jpg)
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 11:12:11 AM
Well, what I'm saying here is what kind of subtextual logic do you need as a reader to justify your willing suspension of disbelief? For the time you spend engaging with the fictional world as presented to you, that is. If your mind tells you there's only one set of physical laws that apply to the universe, and that needs to be true for both the real world and any fictional universe you're reading about, then you're probably the sort of person that doesn't enjoy science fiction and fantasy stories, or a the very least, you're one of the subsets of SF fans that insist on only the most plausible speculative fiction of the "hard sf" type. That would probably severely limit the sort of entertainment reading material available to you in graphic story form.

Every reader has his or her own limits regarding the boundaries of the kind of fictional premises he or she is willing to accept in their entertainment reading. For me, it's just easier to use the broadest theory that accounts for the greatest variety of sf/f-type comic book story premises that I like, i.e.: it's a parallel universe different to our own, in which the observed phenomena doesn't match with the physics of the world WE live in. Therefore, it's probably a universe bound by its own set of physical laws, different from the laws we know in the real world, that allow what we see in the story to happen (it just saves having to chuck a lot of what you see down on the page out the window). And if it's Slaine, or Conan, or Dr. Strange, then the laws of physics in effect in the story might be something so alien to our own that we just call it "magic". Either that, or as Arthur C. Clarke said, it's a kind of science so advanced that it's indistinguishable from magic.

And if it's conflicting story data from 2 or more stories supposedly set in the same universe, then you have to synthesize your own personal headcanon, by deciding to embrace some bits and chucking out the ones that you don't like or which seem less consistent with the bulk of story data you have.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 11:15:49 AM
Quote from: Steve Green on 16 April, 2017, 11:03:38 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7S6koRX0l1w/RpZkqFYc02I/AAAAAAAABIQ/yZ9y_VdVgyc/s320/Helmet.jpg)

See now, that's exactly what I was speculating on what the importance of recording video with the helmet cam meant to Johnny Alpha. Nice to see there are actually examples of that to be found in the stories. You come up with the best stuff, Steve.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Steve Green on 16 April, 2017, 11:56:20 AM
You're welcome, it pops up a few times - even throwaway lines where the GCC were getting a bit sceptical of video evidence for terminations.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: TordelBack on 16 April, 2017, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: Magnetica on 16 April, 2017, 10:53:01 AM
If I am remembering my O Level Physics correctly, Alpha particles can only travel a few centimetres before they are absorbed by the air. So they wouldn't be a very effective probe.

Well this is true with alpha particles naturally emitted by nuclear decay (a source of enormous disappointment to 12 year old me in Science class), but equally they are effectively Helium nuclei (two protons, two neutrons) with all the mass and potential for momentum that entails, so if you accelerate them fast enough they can make a right mess - essentially this is what cosmic rays are, super-energetic alpha particles.

It's their tendency to be easily blocked, i.e. readily absorbed, that make them potentially dangerous - X-rays/gamma rays (same thing in practice, just with different sources) have very low absorption, so they don't do any (or much) harm on their way through.  In fact, the X-ray eyes of a putative Johnny Gamma would be even more useless, since there is no reflection at all, and no real effect on the target: at least some alpha particles get reflected back (according to Rutherford's foil experiment), with the potential for detection of the target at the point of the emission.

At least this is how it was explained to me by a very patient physics teacher (and sometime 2000AD reader) back in 1983!  Things may have changed since, and indeed there are real scientists on the forum who are choking on their Easter eggs reading this drivel.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: JOE SOAP on 16 April, 2017, 02:19:26 PM
Quote from: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 11:12:11 AM
Well, what I'm saying here is what kind of subtextual logic do you need as a reader to justify your willing suspension of disbelief? For the time you spend engaging with the fictional world as presented to you, that is. If your mind tells you there's only one set of physical laws that apply to the universe, and that needs to be true for both the real world and any fictional universe you're reading about, then you're probably the sort of person that doesn't enjoy science fiction and fantasy stories, or a the very least, you're one of the subsets of SF fans that insist on only the most plausible speculative fiction of the "hard sf" type. That would probably severely limit the sort of entertainment reading material available to you in graphic story form...


I think it's far simpler than that and in the case of the formative years of 2000AD, and especially Judge Dredd, it meandered through physical logic like a fabulously lyrical and ambulatory drunk attached to a lamp-post by elastic bands.

It's mostly down to its tone – if you can get that right, you can take a reader anywhere and ignore thinking too much about how it all 'works'.



Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Magnetica on 16 April, 2017, 06:38:21 PM
Tordels, I stand corrected - Wikipedia reveals that cosmic rays consist of 9% alpha particles. Learn something new everyday.....
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 17 April, 2017, 12:29:24 PM
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 16 April, 2017, 02:19:26 PM
Quote from: positronic on 16 April, 2017, 11:12:11 AM
Well, what I'm saying here is what kind of subtextual logic do you need as a reader to justify your willing suspension of disbelief? For the time you spend engaging with the fictional world as presented to you, that is. If your mind tells you there's only one set of physical laws that apply to the universe, and that needs to be true for both the real world and any fictional universe you're reading about, then you're probably the sort of person that doesn't enjoy science fiction and fantasy stories, or a the very least, you're one of the subsets of SF fans that insist on only the most plausible speculative fiction of the "hard sf" type. That would probably severely limit the sort of entertainment reading material available to you in graphic story form...


I think it's far simpler than that and in the case of the formative years of 2000AD, and especially Judge Dredd, it meandered through physical logic like a fabulously lyrical and ambulatory drunk attached to a lamp-post by elastic bands.

It's mostly down to its tone – if you can get that right, you can take a reader anywhere and ignore thinking too much about how it all 'works'.

Mr. Soap, can I just say how much I enjoy seeing your well-chosen avatar?

If Joe Friday had existed in the universe of the Judge system, he'd certainly be marked as top-of-the-list for preferred clone-donor DNA for the Academy of Law.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 17 April, 2017, 04:32:11 PM
Quote from: positronic on 17 April, 2017, 12:29:24 PM
Mr. Soap, can I just say how much I enjoy seeing your well-chosen avatar?


You're not the only one.

(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x141/mycenaean/Various/DreddSoap.png)
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 17 April, 2017, 05:38:26 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 17 April, 2017, 04:32:11 PM
Quote from: positronic on 17 April, 2017, 12:29:24 PM
Mr. Soap, can I just say how much I enjoy seeing your well-chosen avatar?


You're not the only one.

(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x141/mycenaean/Various/DreddSoap.png)

I'm not sure if you meant to post a link to the original video or just a screen grab. I can see a billboard in the background there with a face and what looks like the word "soap" on it, but I can't make out the actual face or read the billboard.

Is it possible that this isn't the right frame, and there was one where the billboard could actually be read that you meant to grab? 
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 17 April, 2017, 06:26:04 PM
Quote from: positronic on 17 April, 2017, 05:38:26 PM

I'm not sure if you meant to post a link to the original video or just a screen grab. I can see a billboard in the background there with a face and what looks like the word "soap" on it, but I can't make out the actual face or read the billboard.

Is it possible that this isn't the right frame, and there was one where the billboard could actually be read that you meant to grab?

It says "Joe Soap" and has the Dave Gibbons Chronocops image that Mr Soap used to use as his avatar.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Dash Decent on 18 April, 2017, 01:33:11 PM
From the Swipe file thread... (including larger shot from the movie)

Quote from: Dash Decent on 10 January, 2016, 09:16:10 AM
MAD's Joe Friday begat Moore & Gibbon's Joe Saturday, who in turn inspired the forum's own Joe Soap.  Joe Soap currently uses a photo of Jack Webb as his avatar but his earlier avatar - from "Chronocops" - was immortalised in a certain film...

(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x418/Dash_Decent/CC6_zpsrus3b3nf.jpg)
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: Richard on 18 April, 2017, 02:40:09 PM
They're not really alpha rays, but Johnny Kreelman's grasp of particle physics might not have been very strong when he was a child and he had to choose a new surname on the spur of the moment. Now he's stuck with it.

There's an interview somewhere where Carlos says the helmet is meant to loom like a dog's head. It's easier to see in the earliest episodes from Starlord.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 18 April, 2017, 06:20:15 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 17 April, 2017, 06:26:04 PM
Quote from: positronic on 17 April, 2017, 05:38:26 PM

I'm not sure if you meant to post a link to the original video or just a screen grab. I can see a billboard in the background there with a face and what looks like the word "soap" on it, but I can't make out the actual face or read the billboard.

Is it possible that this isn't the right frame, and there was one where the billboard could actually be read that you meant to grab?

It says "Joe Soap" and has the Dave Gibbons Chronocops image that Mr Soap used to use as his avatar.

What Jim said.

I didn't grab the screen myself; I just typed 'Joe Soap Dredd movie' into Google images.  A few of our number were featured in that film, IIRC - 'Goaty' was featured twice as a graffiti tag.

Also, thanks for explaining the connection, Dash.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: norton canes on 18 April, 2017, 07:31:24 PM
OK, here's another Johnny Alpha-related question. Was a Strontium Dog annual ever given serious consideration in the 1980's?

Obviously the Judge Dredd annuals were a success and we eventually got a Rogue Trooper annual right at the end of the hardback-annual era, but what about other strips/characters? I know for instance that Robo-Hunter was second in popularity to Judge Dredd for a while, but there doesn't seem like nearly as much scope for a whole album of Robo-Hunter related material as there does for Johnny Alpha, Wulf, Middenface, Durham Red, the Gronks etc.


Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: norton canes on 18 April, 2017, 07:34:02 PM
Oh yeah and re. the helmet - I'm sure that if, like Judge Dredd, several artists had worked on Strontium Dog in its formative years then the shape of the helmet would have evolved into a different form that we see it in now. It's only because Carlos Ezquerra had years drawing it in a particular manner that the shape became so rigidly defined.
Title: Re: A question that drives me nuts!
Post by: positronic on 19 April, 2017, 07:31:34 AM
Quote from: Richard on 18 April, 2017, 02:40:09 PM
They're not really alpha rays, but Johnny Kreelman's grasp of particle physics might not have been very strong when he was a child and he had to choose a new surname on the spur of the moment. Now he's stuck with it.

There's an interview somewhere where Carlos says the helmet is meant to loom like a dog's head. It's easier to see in the earliest episodes from Starlord.

It's likely that all the references to Strontium-90 from radioactive fallout creating mutants who are now forced to make a living as "Strontium Dogs" are mistaken as well. It's probably just a cover story for a government secret project to perform genetic engineering experiments on human egg & sperm cells, which was eventually abandoned after years of random tinkering with hit-or-miss chromosome alterations, and failing to produce the desired ultimate super-soldier.