Attempts at the sample scripts

[locustsofdeath!]

Interesting insight here, PJ! As a wanna-be pro comics writer, reading your feedback on the ART puts in to perspective what artists have to do, and I can work a little better for them; i.e., limit panels and text on pages and so forth...

Thanks!

[Paul_Ridgon]

Thanks for taking the time to go over my stuff PJ, I really appreciate it.  I'll respond to your points in order...

I'm struck by a couple of things: lack of decent amount of room for panels/dialogue - you really need to leave about a quarter of the panel as breathing space for text - this is to give the letterer options and the lack of decent establishing shot - putting dredd, the woman, the kid et all in context.

On reflection, I agree completely.  The text in the script doesn't seem to be too heavy and as it's all (with the exception of panels 3 and 4 ) captioned, I thought that the placement could be a little free-er.  Rookie error I guess.

Panel 1 will require very careful placement for the caption to not overlap the figure.


Yeah, I see that now.  The beauty of Photoshop (or Manga Studio in this case) is that I can reduce her down with relative ease to allow more room.

Panel 2 - if the captions go to the top left, will sit on top of Dredd's leg - reducing an already vague leg shape into a mostly meaningless green lump - so the captions will have to go to the top right - not always the best location for captions. (and I'm assuming that's Dredd's leg, could be another Judge? Who knows...) Also: the Room looks grotty - but is it a room? an underground bunker? a massive lift? Who knows - there's not enough there to sell it as anything other than 'box shaped location with graffiti'.

With reference to the look of the location, I struggled with that myself.  What I didn't want it to look like was something out of Dredd meets Cosby just with a smashed coffee table and maybe a ripped soda.  I wanted it to look like a drug den, to really show the background of Klein Jr.  On reflection, yep, I over did the graffiti and maybe I could use more furniture (of some description) in the apartment.


Panel 3 - captions/dialogue will have to overlap the face - or fall off panel and the stark black background, has the effect of making this look like it might be a flashback.


There is (as you've no doubt seen already) very little dialogue in this panel and, while there's not much room, it should be sufficient.  I do agree with the black borders, I'd probably get rid of them and just have the eyes floating.]


Panel 4 - has a reasonable space for text, though still feels very cramped owing to the cropping around the child's face.

This was very deliberate.  I wanted to give the impression of claustrophobia for both the Kleins, Snr that he was facing off against Dredd and couldn't possibly escape and Jnr because he needed to get out from his destructive father.


BTW: If the script calls for a specific angle, then do it - figure out another way to build the tension you want - don't forget, Tharg is going to see this page A LOT - yours will stand out, but it'll be for the wrong reason. (Also: if you manage to catch a break, and get a gig and you become the artist who disregards scripts - writers won't want to work with you - and a lot of work comes via writer recommendations)

Ordinarily, in the past when I've had an idea for a panel change, I've never done it without first discussing it with both the writer and editor and will always bow to their needs for the piece.  Here I didn't really have that opportunity.  I understand what you're saying though.

(And, to prove it's not all bad: that's some pretty impressive figure drawing on panel 1)
-pj

In all honesty Paul, nothing of what you've said is bad, it's helped me a lot and pointed out some weaknesses that I probably saw in the piece subconsciously anyway.

I'm going to be at Bristol from tomorrow, would you mind if I showed you some more of my stuff over a beer?

Thanks again for the comments!

[pauljholden]

Sadly won't be a Bristol - one final point (and I'm sure you already know this, but wanted to make it explicit for those that don't)...
When you're actually showing this work to an editor and he gives you a detailed breakdown of what he thinks is right/wrong DO NOT DEFEND YOUR WORK - it'll hurt and you'll want to, understandibly, but DONT - this is the very definition of an unwinnable argument.

If he asks why you did something, respond and tell him what you were thinking, but, otherwise, take it on the chin.

(sent via iPhone so excuse brevity and typos)

[CrazyFoxMachine]

When you're actually showing this work to an editor and he gives you a detailed breakdown of what he thinks is right/wrong DO NOT DEFEND YOUR WORK - it'll hurt and you'll want to, understandibly, but DONT - this is the very definition of an unwinnable argument.

That's a beautiful piece of advice PJ - I love that kind of non-nonsense truthery. I can remember reading an article about self-publishing comics and the advice was like

A - This isn't going to change your life, nobody really cares - you'll be lucky if your mum even wants to buy one
B - Stop reading this and draw the f**king thing.

ohoho - !

[uncle fester]

A - This isn't going to change your life, nobody really cares - you'll be lucky if your mum even wants to buy one
B - Stop reading this and draw the f**king thing.

I think I might print that out...

[mygrimmbrother]

Not really a useful crit or anything but I really like your stuff Dave. Even more impressive that they were done over the course of a week.

[pauljholden]

I may have mentioned this before, but if you're serious about breaking into comics, one of the first things you should be doing is ditching the online usernames in favour of your real name. You're not only trying to break into comics but you're trying to build brand recognition - with you as the brand - something that's hampered when some people know you as "comicdroidRULZ" online and "John Smith" offline.

-pj

[Jared Katooie]

He could always call himself by his online name while offline.

[Emperor]

I'm struck by a couple of things: ... the lack of decent establishing shot - putting dredd, the woman, the kid et all in context.

This is crucial here and specifically asked for in the script. Now I don't mind artists doing a panel differently as long as it helps the telling of the story without messing something else up further down the line. I'm afraid not having the establishing shot in panel 2 actually hurts the visual storytelling aspect here and I think the editor and/or writer would ask you to redraw this (and given the page layout this might involve redrawing the page). I suspect one of the things experience brings is knowing when you can tinker with the art and when to draw exactly what it says on the page.

He could always call himself by his online name while offline.

I am called Emperor in the real world (there are people who only know me as that), which is why I use it online. It is in essence my brand.

[Mike Gloady]

I'm fortunate in that I have a pretty rare surname.  So I've never had to dream up a silly web handle to begin with because my real name is quite silly enough.

[James]

Phantom, if I may call you such a thing, the first thing that jumps out at me is how well the first panel is drawn compared to the rest. I looks like you've used reference for it.

Now, I'm all up for a bit of reference, I use far too much myself, but when it jars against the rest of your style like that it stings a bit.

I'm assuming you did use reference for the shot? If not then I apologise.

Also, just looking back at it now panel 2 looks like he's going in for a spot of anal rape. Sorry.

[CrazyFoxMachine]

I feel that OwenWatts would be a HELL of a lame username.

I make my name known pretty clearly in every other net thing I do - so I'm not particularly worried about over saturation of the Fox.

Although being hailed as 'Foxy' by Colin MacNeil on the chatrooms yesterday WAS disturbing.

...I felt as though I should be stabbing crabs

[radiator]

Finally got round to scanning these.

These pages were drawn over a year ago, so during the time since, I'd like to think I've both improved a lot in my drawing skillz, and also I've been able to get a bit of distance so can view them a little more objectively.

So before the knives come out, I'll get in first and list some of the more glaring stuff I'm already aware of!

Script is viewable here:
http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=scripts&choice=generation

**Known issues**

Parmela is rubbish and badly drawn - I'd like to think that I'm a lot better at drawing female characters now. Looking back now, I ballsed up her first appearance, then had to match her in all subsequent panels.

Neither Peart nor Parmela look 'Mega-City' enough - if I were to draw this script again I'd make their dress more eccentric (knee pads, weird McMahon hats etc). Also, their looks and features needs to be more consistent throughout.

Design of Imal is a bit rubbish - he is quite a ridiculous character so it works that he looks a bit cheesy, but I'd do it differently now.

Panels I particularly struggled with:

Pg1
Panel 2: I struggled with how to make it clear that Parmela is holding a Pregnancy test kit - I was going to add a logo to it when I coloured.
Panel 3: Boring, flat composition - could be much more exciting/dramatic.

Pg2
Panel 1: Had loads of problems with this panel - very tricky angle and action.
Panel 5: Not great - would tackle differently now, also Dredd should be more directly at the teleporter.

Pg4
Panel 6: Crap.
Panel 7: Nowhere near dramatic enough. If I was doing this now I'd change the composition and tilt the angle.

Pg5
Panel 5: Lame. Needs redrawing.

Pg 6
Panel 3: Ugly, rushed, could be way better.
Panel 5: Yucky, needs redrawing.
Panels 6,7: Ugh, needs redoing.

Additional notes:
The lack of overall shading is deliberate - the pages are intended to be coloured by me and I add a lot of depth and form etc with colour. If I was drawing for solely B&W print I would have added more tone, shadows etc.

Lack of text on signs, citi-blocks etc - this is all to be added digitally.

[radiator]

[pauljholden]

Your biggest problem Radiator is stiffness - it runs through your figures like a big stiff steel ruler. Unflinching and unbending. You need to start getting some sweeping curves into the figures - I love your cartoony style, but it's not being served well with the lack of bounce in the poses. When I get a chance I'll graffiti all over your artwork so you can see what I mean.

Your other problem (if it is that) is knowing where you'd fit into 2000ad - but that's a problem that Steve Roberts faced too, and he found a place. (And I love his work too...)

-pj