Wonder Woman 2017

[Smith]

And since we are on the topic of women and violence:
http://lby3.com/wir/
Thou,keep in mind it was several reboots ago,so some characters came back to life.

[IndigoPrime]

On the above, it's interesting having finally delved into some properly old Marvel phone books. My god, early Spider-Man is a festering pool of sexist slime. I'm about half-way through the second book and I don't think I've yet come across any women with any real agency. There are very frequent references to 'silly females' who are 'crazy'. It's just horrible.

Naturally, this comes from it being written by a bloke who grew up in the 1940s, and who by this time was, what, in his early 40s? But then once you scout around, you see the same old tropes keep on happening. John Wick: propelled back into action because his wife is killed. It's just so bloody lazy. And such attitudes infect media all over the place. Any parents who've watched Paw Patrol might recall how sole female pup Skye is small, pink, 'support', and mooned over by the other (all male) pups.

To my mind, all changes to shift the balance are a good thing, even if they sometimes don't work out creativity or financially (the latter being the case for the recent Ghostbusters, for example).

As for Wonder Woman, I haven't seen it yet, and I have little interest in DC as a whole. I tired of the previous Batman trilogy, and the Superman stuff looked dull as anything. Wonder Woman, though, at least looks a bit different, and so should make for at worst an interesting rental once it shows up. (If it wasn't for mini-IP, we'd probably have seen it at the cinema. Mrs IP was certainly very interested.)

[Smith]

On the above, it's interesting having finally delved into some properly old Marvel phone books. My god, early Spider-Man is a festering pool of sexist slime. I'm about half-way through the second book and I don't think I've yet come across any women with any real agency. There are very frequent references to 'silly females' who are 'crazy'. It's just horrible.

Naturally, this comes from it being written by a bloke who grew up in the 1940s, and who by this time was, what, in his early 40s? But then once you scout around, you see the same old tropes keep on happening. John Wick: propelled back into action because his wife is killed. It's just so bloody lazy. And such attitudes infect media all over the place. Any parents who've watched Paw Patrol might recall how sole female pup Skye is small, pink, 'support', and mooned over by the other (all male) pups.

To my mind, all changes to shift the balance are a good thing, even if they sometimes don't work out creativity or financially (the latter being the case for the recent Ghostbusters, for example).

As for Wonder Woman, I haven't seen it yet, and I have little interest in DC as a whole. I tired of the previous Batman trilogy, and the Superman stuff looked dull as anything. Wonder Woman, though, at least looks a bit different, and so should make for at worst an interesting rental once it shows up. (If it wasn't for mini-IP, we'd probably have seen it at the cinema. Mrs IP was certainly very interested.)

It was the 60's...
Now,for the movie,I didnt plan to go,but a friend had an extra ticket so...and honestly a found it a pretty standard origin story.Average,all in all.

[JamesC]

I think John Wick's wife died of an illness. It was the killing of his puppy that drove him over the edge.

We're definitely seeing more decent roles for women in the action genre than ever before I think.
Off the top of my head - The Hunger Games, Fury Road, Wonder Woman, Atomic Blonde (I haven't seen it but it's been getting pretty good reviews), the new Star Wars films, Valerian, Tomb Raider reboot.
Even Suicide Squad, while featuring an incredibly sexualised Harley Quinn was pretty much sold on the popularity of that character (and if last year's NYCC is anything to go by, she's become one of the most cosplayed characters of the last few years).

[Robin Low]

Any parents who've watched Paw Patrol might recall how sole female pup Skye is small, pink, 'support', and mooned over by the other (all male) pups.

As a parent who has watched Paw Patrol, I'll point out that there is another female pup by the name of Everest, although she is a bit lilac.

As for Skye, she gets to fly a helicopter, has her own wings in her pup pack, and directly rescues a shitload of characters from danger.

I agree that Skye's pink outfit and helicopter is lazy beyond belief, but I've found that some girls gravitate towards it no matter what you do.

The real stereotyping is in the breeds of dogs, of course. The Dalmatian is the silly, gangly twit. The Bulldog operates plant. The German Shepherd is the police dog. The mongrel makes stuff from scrap. The Husky drives a snow plough and the Dingo is a tracker. The only bit of original thinking is with the chocolate lab, but I guess someone had to operate the powerboat.

Regards,

Robin

[Apestrife]

I imagine Rogue Earthlet must have hated Kill Bill. 

Rogue Earthlet, could you perhaps start a new thread where you're enquired and then debate on wether you like a film or not?

[IndigoPrime]

It was the 60's...

Indeed it was. Hence my ongoing disappointment that things in some ways still haven't changed all that much an entire lifetime later.

We're definitely seeing more decent roles for women in the action genre than ever before I think.

I agree – and that's a good thing, which should continue. But in these movies, we must also be careful to not always give them a pass if they have the 'strong female character', but broadly avoid women in other ways. (That happens weirdly often.)

As a parent who has watched Paw Patrol, I'll point out that...

Yes, Everest shows up in season 2, and was mostly used to boost female merchandising (so you get Skye/Everest on pink tops that say BEST FRIENDS with lots of hearts, while the boys get much more fun garb). She's also hardly ever in the show, and – just to 'rebalance' it, they then introduced two more make dogs (well, one's a robot, but referred to as a 'he').

I'd have less ire for that show if at least one of the other main dogs was female (Marshal would have been the obvious candidate, but Rubble would have been a nice one there). But it's the usual bullshit Smurfette syndrome, and as a father of a tiny person, this kind of thing increasingly makes me sick. It's bad enough in adult fare; it shouldn't exist at that age. (Helpful hint to anyone here crafting content for kids: if your gender ratio isn't 50:50, ask yourself why. Frankly, ask yourself much the same when writing for adults, too.)

(EDIT: Amusing that the thing that gets you to post, Robin, is, of all things, Paw Patrol!)

[Robin Low]

(EDIT: Amusing that the thing that gets you to post, Robin, is, of all things, Paw Patrol!)

Well, I thought you were being a little unfair to Skye.

That said, your point about 50:50 gender ratio is so right it beggars belief that it has to be made at all. And given that gender identity is an issue far more complex than simply M/F, we've a hell of fucking way to go.

Regards,

Robin

[Steve Green]

John Wick: propelled back into action because his wife is killed. It's just so bloody lazy.

His wife dies of a terminal illness and had instructions in her will to give him a puppy, which is then killed by the son of a mobster.

[TordelBack]

It's bad enough in adult fare; it shouldn't exist at that age. (Helpful hint to anyone here crafting content for kids: if your gender ratio isn't 50:50, ask yourself why. Frankly, ask yourself much the same when writing for adults, too.)

FFS IP, there you go again, subjugating creative freedom to your beta-male white knight cuck agenda.

Yes, my red-pill pals, AGENDA. The agenda of MAKING THE WORLD BETTER, the agenda I would hope your parents and education and personal introspection convinced you is your fecking job for your limited time on this earth.  Leave society in a better state than you found it, not some atomized ruin of frustrated entitlement and begrudgery. Please.

[Frank]

This thread is all about dogs now? Surreal.

Just to give Rogue Earthlet a way back into his thread, how often are Skye and Everest savagely beaten? And is it entertaining?

[IndigoPrime]

Just to give Rogue Earthlet a way back into his thread, how often are Skye and Everest savagely beaten?

Never.

And is it entertaining?

Never. (Assuming you're referring to Paw Patrol in general, which may be the worst show in the history of television. And my wife recently noted there's a movie, just around the time mini-IP could possibly have a first cinema trip. STOP IT, WORLD. NOT FUNNY.)

Robin: Yep. And even more so for children's television. But then I've seen plenty of execs note that girls will watch shows where almost the entire cast is boys, but boys eschew shows with a 50/50 split. Which I'd suggest is a big societal problem. (Shows like Hey Duggee do a lot better. It also helps that Hey Duggee is really bloody good.)

Everyone re John Wick: Yes, I know. I got that one wrong. Probably watching the rubbish sequel recently temporarily made me forget how the much better original played out.

[Steve Green]

John Wick 3 involves the massacre of the entire Paw Patrol.

[Frank]

I've seen plenty of execs note that girls will watch shows where almost the entire cast is boys, but boys eschew shows with a 50/50 split.

Spooky echo of my long explanation of why execs don't green light films aimed at adult men which feature female antagonists.

Never seen Paw Patrol, but - like Rogue Earthlet - that isn't going to stop me contributing to this thread's exciting new direction. All I know about it is a friend's occasional reports on her daughter's obsession with the show.

Her infatuation seems less to do with identification and gender than adoration of them as dogs, specifically 'my Marshal'. When pressed further, she offers 'Marshal, Ryder, help Ella'. I hope this develops the discussion further.

[Dudley]

As soon as someone proves there's a paying audience for action films with female villains, The Rock will be wailing on Meryl Streep's face with a 2x4.

Fast and Furious' most recent outing was with a villainess I think.