Apologies if mentioned elsewhere, but Down The Tubes is reporting that kiddie horror comics Scream! and Misty will have a co-ed special published later this year (http://downthetubes.net/?p=39160), featuring new material from 2000ad alum.
There's a good talent line-up in there, and I hope they go for an all-ages audience as I wouldn't mind seeing this sell to a wider audience than... well, us.
ooh, that looks interesting.
That's a big WOW! Very exciting.
That is great news - I wonder how much Pat will be involved?
Quote from: sheridan on 20 July, 2017, 02:16:14 PM
That is great news - I wonder how much Pat will be involved?
Not at all, to judge by his comments on FB!
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 20 July, 2017, 02:18:21 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 20 July, 2017, 02:16:14 PM
That is great news - I wonder how much Pat will be involved?
Not at all, to judge by his comments on FB!
Not seen this. What's he saying?
This is the best comic related news I've heard all year.
I will be purchasing multiple copies as gifts for nephews & nieces.
I fucking knew this day would come.
Quote from: Timothy on 20 July, 2017, 02:33:45 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 20 July, 2017, 02:18:21 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 20 July, 2017, 02:16:14 PM
That is great news - I wonder how much Pat will be involved?
Not at all, to judge by his comments on FB!
Not seen this. What's he saying?
His comments are now in the article.
Quote from: sheridan on 20 July, 2017, 05:28:36 PM
His comments are now in the article.
"It's fantastic – apart from Misty having a poor relation smaller logo," [ Mills ]
noted in a social media post, his partner Lisa raising similar concerns in the same thread. "That's a pity. I hope it doesn't indicate that this is aimed primarily at blokes..."...Or it might indicate that Henry didn't leave enough room for it, as he said on social media just this morning.
Wow! :o
That cover is all kinds of amazing, and the contents sound pretty stunning too.
New 13th Floor? New Dracula Files? Get in! Hope this is a tester for possible continuation in the Meg/Prog.
They should do a Scream/Minty edition.
Something to cater to that untapped 60-something disillusioned Judge and horror market.
yay! I can hardly wait but I suppose I'll have to. Scream!
Mmmm, is this just nostalgia?
A shame we couldn't get one of each rather than merging them.
Scream! is a better name and logo. It's probably not a misogynist conspiracy.
Looks like Misty got a bum deal like Chips Whizzer.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/99/ab/fd/99abfdd3fb137d330f3a8fab8271c7f5--childhood-memories-chips.jpg) (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a0/7f/4f/a07f4f75fa868813712e68da62013817--comic-covers-comic-books.jpg)
Another great Flint cover. Top marks for still refusing to daub his signature on his work. A mark of class.
And Hannah Berry in the Special. Swoon :P
I approve.
He doesn't need to sign his work, his style is so distinctive.
Quote from: Richard on 20 July, 2017, 07:31:22 PM
Scream! is a better name and logo. It's probably not a misogynist conspiracy.
No-one seems to be suggesting a misogynist conspiracy, they're just concerned that the wrong logo is given prominence. It could be argued that Misty has an appeal beyond the North-Of-40 male demographic that Scream! doesn't.
The wrong logo has not been given prominence. Scream! was a horror comic read by both boys and girls. Misty was targeted entirely towards girls, (boys read it, but it wasn't intended for them). The special is not entirely targeted towards girls and Misty's logo is all unscary and cuddly-looking, thus if any logo were to intentionally be given prominence, Scream! would make the most sense, (though if you ask me, they should definitely both be the same size).
Scream was just as specifically aimed at boys as Misty was girls, and assumptions about the cross-gender readership of the gender-segregated comics market of the 1980s are at best based on anecdotal evidence.
Scream lasted 15 issues. Misty lasted 101. It is not unreasonable to suggest parity was the way to go.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 July, 2017, 12:20:39 AM
Scream was just as specifically aimed at boys as Misty was girls, and assumptions about the cross-gender readership of the gender-segregated comics market of the 1980s are at best based on anecdotal evidence.
Front cover of
Misty issue one : "No.1 of a great mystery paper for
girls!", free lucky charm bracelet.
Front cover of
Scream! issue one : "Not for the nervous!", free Dracula fangs. (Trade Flyer sent out to newsagents prior to launch with the text "The new IPC comic for older
boys and ghouls")
Letters pages in
Misty (based on a quick skim through) : Almost exclusively female correspondents.
Letters pages in
Scream! (based on a quick skim through) : Mixture of male and female correspondents, (though admittedly a bit more male than female)
So, NYAH!
Misty lasted a longer amount of time than Scream!, but if you figure in the amount of time stories from Scream! continued in Eagle, (with Max even later becoming the 'editor' for a while), that boosts the legacy a bit.
But, yes, it's not unreasonable to suggest they should be equally billed.
To be honest. It should have been a flip-book. Scream! for half, Misty for half.
I love flip-books.
EDIT: It is pretty dumb to have part of Misty's title covered by a selfie-stick.
How long they each lasted or how popular they were back when each title was still being published doesn't really matter. This is a new one-off aimed at a younger demographic who more than likely haven't ever heard of either Scream! or Misty before. Having a larger Scream! logo on a comic that will be on sale over Halloween surely can't be no bad thing though right?
Are we doing Misty a disservice? I don't think so. We have more female creative talent involved in this than you ever got working on any one issue of Misty. Also, the majority of the strips feature female protagonists.
Most importantly though, we're getting new Scream! and Misty material out there - surely we can all agree that that is a great thing?
A flip cover - no thanks. An expensive back page advert - yes please.
Quote from: Robo-K33F on 21 July, 2017, 09:11:45 AMA flip cover - no thanks. An expensive back page advert - yes please.
Heh – spoken like a true person in marketing! And, from my time in that field, and also being a journo today: I agree. Frankly, I'd be much happier if 2000 AD and the Meg were stuffed full of ads, because that means money, but, alas, print ads are a dying breed.
As for the cover, it looks great; and it's a horror thing, and so the cover works for me. It's not like women have been airbrushed out. Perhaps someone should do a cut-out-and-stick-on alt logo for people terribly angry at this perceived slight.
A Misty version of the space spinner with Pat's face underneath.
Whinge, whinge, whinge!
I personally can't wait and hopefully a prelude to a relaunch!
Now how cool would that be? :)
Quote from: dweezil2 on 21 July, 2017, 11:27:48 AM
hopefully a prelude to a relaunch!
If Carlsberg did wishful thinking...
Quote from: M.I.K. on 21 July, 2017, 01:58:50 AM
Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 July, 2017, 12:20:39 AM
MISTY WUZ BETTAH
SCREAM WAS BETTAH
UK magazines like Just 17 had correspondence pages featuring letters that were almost exclusively from male readers, while the New Eagle had lots of letters from girls and female teachers, but these were still gender-specific publications.
And yes, Scream continued into Eagle for six months, but that still puts it 60 issues behind Misty, which
also continued in the pages of Tammy for
four years so NYAH YER MUM
Anyway, this is all moot
AND NOT JUST BECAUSE MISTY WAS BETTER because you have two books that appeal to different genders and you make one logo smaller? There was zero chance someone wouldn't pick up on that. The only sensible thing to do now is double down and try to make perceptions of gender bias a part of the marketing gimmick like
we're doing now the makers of
Ghostbusters and
Wonder Woman did.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 July, 2017, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: M.I.K. on 21 July, 2017, 01:58:50 AM
Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 July, 2017, 12:20:39 AM
MISTY WUZ BETTAH
SCREAM WAS BETTAH
UK magazines like Just 17 had correspondence pages featuring letters that were almost exclusively from male readers[/i] did.
were they all Buttonman?
Some of them were BM, but the rest seemed to be from some Australian bloke.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 July, 2017, 12:47:53 PM
Anyway, this is all moot AND NOT JUST BECAUSE MISTY WAS BETTER because you have two books that appeal to different genders and you make one logo smaller? There was zero chance someone wouldn't pick up on that. The only sensible thing to do now is double down and try to make perceptions of gender bias a part of the marketing gimmick like we're doing now the makers of Ghostbusters and Wonder Woman did.
1) What's gender-specific about the title 'Scream'?
2) If Pat hadn't waded in with his theory that the decision was based on a sexist intention to diminish the significance of Misty, wouldn't we all quite happily have accepted Henry's explanation that he mistakenly failed to leave enough logo space at the top of the artwork (which he copped to earlier in the day, before Pat decided to get outraged about it)?
Ooh I'm well looking forward to this. Crackin cover.
Quote from: Satanist on 21 July, 2017, 01:48:34 PM
Cracklin cover.
They're saving that one for
Oink! and Bunty.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 July, 2017, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: M.I.K. on 21 July, 2017, 01:58:50 AM
Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 July, 2017, 12:20:39 AM
MISTY WUZ BETTAH
SCREAM WAS BETTAH
UK magazines like Just 17 had correspondence pages featuring letters that were almost exclusively from male readers, while the New Eagle had lots of letters from girls and female teachers, but these were still gender-specific publications.
And yes, Scream continued into Eagle for six months, but that still puts it 60 issues behind Misty, which also continued in the pages of Tammy for four years so NYAH YER MUM
Anyway, this is all moot AND NOT JUST BECAUSE MISTY WAS BETTER because you have two books that appeal to different genders and you make one logo smaller? There was zero chance someone wouldn't pick up on that. The only sensible thing to do now is double down and try to make perceptions of gender bias a part of the marketing gimmick like we're doing now the makers of Ghostbusters and Wonder Woman did.
Absolutely nowhere did I say that one was better than the other. The reason I can look through the letters pages of both is because I have a pile of both of them sitting right here next to me. I don't prefer one over the other.
And I wouldn't rely on wikipedia for your information if I were you. It was only called "Tammy & Misty" for about a year until Jinty merged with it, with all trace of Misty herself disappearing the year after - whereas the Scream! logo may have disappeared from Eagle after 6 months, but The Thirteenth Floor continued for 3 years, with Max becoming editor of Eagle for a
further 3 years after that.
You don't have two books that appeal to different genders. You have two books that appeal to both genders, one saying it's only for girls on the cover, the other with marketing material stating its for both boys and girls and no mention of the gender of the readers anywhere in the publication itself aside from allusions to 'witches and warlocks'.
But whatever, my original point was that Scream! was not gender specific and has a scarier logo, and Misty was originally intended for girls and has an unscary logo.
Quote from: TordelBack on 21 July, 2017, 02:28:20 PM
Quote from: Satanist on 21 July, 2017, 01:48:34 PM
Cracklin cover.
They're saving that one for Oink! and Bunty.
I would Buy that (as long as Charlie Brooker was writing it)
Pshaw! Comics are no laughing matter, man.
Personally, I think the logo placing is a little unfortunate, but if I were editor I'd also put preference to the Scream logo on the cover.
It looks better, and it doesn't need any historical baggage for the casual reader if released at Halloween, because 'Scream!' is a great horror themed title. Whereas 'Misty' is a bit... misty.
Not that it should matter anyway, as Misty herself gets maximum presence on the truly ghafflebette cover!
Quote from: Robo-K33F on 21 July, 2017, 09:11:45 AM
This is a new one-off aimed at a younger demographic who more than likely haven't ever heard of either Scream! or Misty before.
This... this is making me well up...
Totally buying this and giving it to the kids at Halloween! Erm, after I've read it first, obviously...
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 21 July, 2017, 01:22:35 PM
1) What's gender-specific about the title 'Scream'?
Um, only girls scream?
No, hang on, I think I'm thinking of squee(ing).
Quote from: pauljholden on 21 July, 2017, 09:34:11 PM
Quote from: Robo-K33F on 21 July, 2017, 09:11:45 AM
This is a new one-off aimed at a younger demographic who more than likely haven't ever heard of either Scream! or Misty before.
This... this is making me well up...
Makes me mad as he knows he's got us 40+ types in the bag already and now he's making YES MAKING us buy this stuff that's not even aimed at our continuity fretting noggins.
What next an actual comic aimed at under 12s... I shudder at the thought
The Phoenix fills that hole, and even does horror stories around Halloween. If you can bloody find it, that is.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 21 July, 2017, 01:22:35 PM
1) What's gender-specific about the title 'Scream'?
It's got a mahoosively phallic and dribbly exclamation mark at the end of it, Mr. Letterer.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4b/96/1d/4b961d2904490a48d2b311846e02f291.jpg)
But it's dribbling red - clearly blood, possibly menstrual given the usual prominence of the moon in cover images that could be hinting at lunar cycles. This could go either way.
Waitaminute... (suddenly realises Mr. Mills's rewritten version of Carrie for young girls is called "Moonchild")
This feminist conspiracy goes deeper than anyone could have suspected.
Quote from: Dash Decent on 22 July, 2017, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 21 July, 2017, 01:22:35 PM
1) What's gender-specific about the title 'Scream'?
Um, only girls scream?
No, hang on, I think I'm thinking of squee(ing).
Nah, I know plenty of boys who squee as well - away with your gender stereotyping!
Quote from: Professor Bear on 22 July, 2017, 12:04:25 PM
The Phoenix fills that hole, and even does horror stories around Halloween. If you can bloody find it, that is.
Waitrose, I believe? And I've seen a pile in the Little Green Bookshop in Wood Green.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 22 July, 2017, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 22 July, 2017, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 21 July, 2017, 01:22:35 PM
What's gender-specific about the title 'Scream'?
It's got a mahoosively phallic and dribbly exclamation mark at the end of it
But it's dribbling red - clearly blood, possibly menstrual given the usual prominence of the moon in cover images that could be hinting at lunar cycles. This feminist conspiracy goes deeper than anyone could have suspected.
The logo uses one of
The Four Typefaces of Eve.
This looks pretty damn awesome. I have memories of buying a couple of issues of Scream. Misty was kind of before my time, but I remember reading a lot of spooky stories in later girls' comics (swiped from my sister's room) like Bunty and Mandy.
The cover looks acey. It reminds me of an image I saw at the time of Scream but that I can't remember seeing since. I'm thinking it would have been a print advert for the new comic that I might have seen in one of the IPC humour comics I used to read around then. Can anyone else recall it or am I imagining it? I recall an image of a kid reading a copy of the comic, and a load of ghouls and ghosts crowding in behind him to read his comic. I remember the image really firing up my imagination as a kid, with the scariness of the monsters and the jarring, funny idea of them being fascinated by a horror comic.
It'd really make my day if this imagined image actually exists. It's doubly make my day if someone could post it here :)
I don't think there was a print advertisement for Scream! as you describe, (although there was a TV advert for the comic that had a boy reading with scary stuff going on around him).
It's possible you're misremembering an advert for a different comic - scary beasties reading things over shoulders is the kind of idea that'll always crop up every now and then. I think there may have been something similar in Oink! a couple of years later, but the image that immediately springs to mind is the cover for the Beaver Book of Horror...
https://2warpstoneptune.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/beaver-horror-1977.jpg (https://2warpstoneptune.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/beaver-horror-1977.jpg)
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 21 July, 2017, 01:22:35 PM
Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 July, 2017, 12:47:53 PM
Anyway, this is all moot AND NOT JUST BECAUSE MISTY WAS BETTER because you have two books that appeal to different genders and you make one logo smaller? There was zero chance someone wouldn't pick up on that. The only sensible thing to do now is double down and try to make perceptions of gender bias a part of the marketing gimmick like we're doing now the makers of Ghostbusters and Wonder Woman did.
1) What's gender-specific about the title 'Scream'?
2) If Pat hadn't waded in with his theory that the decision was based on a sexist intention to diminish the significance of Misty, wouldn't we all quite happily have accepted Henry's explanation that he mistakenly failed to leave enough logo space at the top of the artwork (which he copped to earlier in the day, before Pat decided to get outraged about it)?
No we wouldn't all quite happily have accepted Henry's 'explanation'.
Quote from: JLC on 27 July, 2017, 05:56:43 PM
No we wouldn't all quite happily have accepted Henry's 'explanation'.
Why?
...And why the quotes around 'explanation'
Quote from: M.I.K. on 27 July, 2017, 04:41:40 PM
It's possible you're misremembering an advert for a different comic - scary beasties reading things over
Bolland's FP advertisement possibly?
Quote from: JLC on 27 July, 2017, 05:56:43 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 21 July, 2017, 01:22:35 PM
Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 July, 2017, 12:47:53 PM
Anyway, this is all moot AND NOT JUST BECAUSE MISTY WAS BETTER because you have two books that appeal to different genders and you make one logo smaller? There was zero chance someone wouldn't pick up on that. The only sensible thing to do now is double down and try to make perceptions of gender bias a part of the marketing gimmick like we're doing now the makers of Ghostbusters and Wonder Woman did.
1) What's gender-specific about the title 'Scream'?
2) If Pat hadn't waded in with his theory that the decision was based on a sexist intention to diminish the significance of Misty, wouldn't we all quite happily have accepted Henry's explanation that he mistakenly failed to leave enough logo space at the top of the artwork (which he copped to earlier in the day, before Pat decided to get outraged about it)?
No we wouldn't all quite happily have accepted Henry's 'explanation'.
Unless they've bunged the Misty logo onto a one-off short, there's only one story from Misty in the book and the mopey bint is lucky she's on the cover at all.
I'm guessing the story about fairies will be introduced by Misty, which would make 2 Misty stories, 2 Scream! stories and 2 stories which are neither Scream! nor Misty and feature characters from other old British comics.
Quote from: Tjm86 on 27 July, 2017, 07:48:46 PM
Quote from: M.I.K. on 27 July, 2017, 04:41:40 PM
It's possible you're misremembering an advert for a different comic - scary beasties reading things over
Bolland's FP advertisement possibly?
Ah, I thought I might be misremembering the advert or even imagining it. Given the preponderance of similar images it's probably the former. I'm starting to think it might have been the TV ad that left such a big impression on me, but a YouTube search has revealed nothing.
That Beaver Book of Horror cover image is amazing! I used to read things like that and the Fontana Book of Horror and Armada Book of Ghost Stories, so it's possible the image came from something like that.
Thanks for paying attention to my blathering anyway. Really looking forward to this Scream/Misty special.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 27 July, 2017, 11:13:11 PM
Quote from: Professor Bear on 27 July, 2017, 09:08:35 PM
bunged the Misty logo onto a one-off
It's a story about fairies, mythological creatures that have been associated with little girls since the fey depictions of the Victorian era, but have far darker origins in ancient folklore. If it wasn't
originally intended as a Misty story, it flippin' well should have been.
Quote from: Muon on 27 July, 2017, 11:31:44 PM
I'm starting to think it might have been the TV ad that left such a big impression on me, but a YouTube search has revealed nothing.
Nope, it's not on YouTube. I check for it every few months.
What I remember... young boy reading the first issue at night in a creepy old house near a window, cat in it somewhere to tie in with Terror of The Cats, possibly Dracula and prominent use of the phrase "Not For The Nervous!".
I think they had two slightly different adverts featuring the corresponding free gifts for the first two issues, (the Dracula fangs, and the rubber spider).
I remember that Scream! TV ad but I didn't think it was a creepy old house but a contemporary house. Didn't Dracula creep up on the boy from behind the sofa?
May have been a modern house. I mainly remember it being darkly lit and looking like a set. Not sure, but for something that was on a handful of times within a couple of weeks 33 years ago, it's a wonder we remember anything.
I remember wanting the comic but could only get one a week and already had a standing order for Buster at the newsagents (or rather my nanny did). The ad certainly made an impression though.
The Toxic! cinema ad was similarly memorable.
I am really looking forward to a new edition of Scream (having read every word of old Scream), and I really don't care about a new issue of Misty (having never read a word of old Misty).
Clever marketing cleverness means that I will buy the Halloween special, as (hopefully) will people who feel exactly the opposite to the way I do. Well done, Rebellion Marketing Department!
I've picked up a few copies of Misty & even though I am not the target audience I'm enjoying it. Yes its a few decades old but refreshing to read things set in a very recognisable real world. One of the immediate differences is that for the most part Screams! protagonists were not in the same age bracket as the readers.
Quote from: JLC on 29 July, 2017, 10:39:00 AM
I've picked up a few copies of Misty & even though I am not the target audience I'm enjoying it. Yes its a few decades old but refreshing to read things set in a very recognisable real world. One of the immediate differences is that for the most part Screams! protagonists were not in the same age bracket as the readers.
Since you may have missed it on the previous page, I'll ask you again: why wouldn't you accept Henry's explanation for the reduced logo size? And why did you put inverted commas around the word 'explanation'? What, exactly were you trying to imply?
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 29 July, 2017, 12:10:43 PM
Quote from: JLC on 29 July, 2017, 10:39:00 AM
I've picked up a few copies of Misty & even though I am not the target audience I'm enjoying it. Yes its a few decades old but refreshing to read things set in a very recognisable real world. One of the immediate differences is that for the most part Screams! protagonists were not in the same age bracket as the readers.
Since you may have missed it on the previous page, I'll ask you again: why wouldn't you accept Henry's explanation for the reduced logo size? And why did you put inverted commas around the word 'explanation'? What, exactly were you trying to imply?
I didn't miss it. I don't agree with that explanation. I didn't feel the need to debate it further. You obviously do but I will not be doing so...sorry...
Quote from: JLC on 29 July, 2017, 12:55:39 PM
I didn't miss it. I don't agree with that explanation. I didn't feel the need to debate it further. You obviously do but I will not be doing so...sorry...
To be clear, then: you think Henry was lying. On what basis?
Should add my two pence worth in defense of Henry Flint here.
It wasnt him that decided on the logo sizes and placements, regardless of wether he left enough space in the image or not.
As i said before, i think the logo sizes and placement is a bit unfortunate, but the idea that this is a deliberate attempt to diminish the appeal of Misty and/or comics for girls in general is frankly ludicrous.
It's a typically gorgeous Flint cover, prominently featuring a charming depiction of Misty herself.
Also featuring a tombstone with the phrase "RIP Sanity" that you'd be forgiven for thinking was subsequently added.
I liked the Misty collection I got for my birthday last year, and look forward to reading Volume Two, but unfortunately the logo isn't a patch on Scream! It looks more like something that belongs on Beano, Dandy, Whizzer & Chips and the Ilk, rather than 2000AD, Eagle, Scream! or even Tiger.
Quote from: sheridan on 30 July, 2017, 10:57:39 PM
I liked the Misty collection I got for my birthday last year, and look forward to reading Volume Two, but unfortunately the logo isn't a patch on Scream! It looks more like something that belongs on Beano, Dandy, Whizzer & Chips and the Ilk, rather than 2000AD, Eagle, Scream! or even Tiger.
And I'm saying 'even' Tiger because it's the least creative of the logos I mentioned above.
So excited about this! Love the reprints that I've managed to find for both Scream and Misty, and super-psyched to see top creators tackling scary comics for the under-12s. My children will have just turned 8 when this goes on sale - must see if this keeps them awake at night.
Quote from: AlexF on 01 August, 2017, 10:47:32 AM
So excited about this! Love the reprints that I've managed to find for both Scream and Misty, and super-psyched to see top creators tackling scary comics for the under-12s. My children will have just turned 8 when this goes on sale - must see if this keeps them awake at night.
It would be awesome if this comic caught the imagination of kids today, but I'm genuinely puzzled as to how you reach them in 2017. In 1984 I'd scan the shelves of my local newsagents or a kid would come to school showing off the vampire fangs he'd got free with Scream, but how do kids come across comics now, especially when there's so much other stuff competing for their attention?
John Freeman wrote an interesting piece that touched on this (http://downthetubes.net/?p=39393), in part noting how supermarkets face these comics. They've in many cases shifted from being self-determined purchases by kids with their own money, to parental purchases. The relatively high entry prices benefit sellers in terms of profit per item (meaning stocking fewer copies of each).
The question will be whether this type of publication still appeals to kids – and I very much hope it does. (Does anyone here get The Phoenix? I've never seen a copy of that for sale, but is that bagged, or just a vanilla comic?)
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 02 August, 2017, 12:21:37 PM
John Freeman wrote an interesting piece that touched on this (http://downthetubes.net/?p=39393), in part noting how supermarkets face these comics. They've in many cases shifted from being self-determined purchases by kids with their own money, to parental purchases. The relatively high entry prices benefit sellers in terms of profit per item (meaning stocking fewer copies of each).
The question will be whether this type of publication still appeals to kids – and I very much hope it does. (Does anyone here get The Phoenix? I've never seen a copy of that for sale, but is that bagged, or just a vanilla comic?)
Only ones I've ever seen have been individually, not-bagged comics (though one of those times is a pile of back issues in the Big Green Bookshop, Wood Green, and the other time has been on the magazine rack of Waitrose).
Whenever I am in the supermarket or the Co-op with my kids they invariably ask me to buy them a comic. They then choose what they want. My son (7) will usually buy either Ultimate Spider-Man or Lego Star Wars. Both of these actually have very little comic strip in them (about half?) with the rest being puzzles or features. What strip there is self contained with no attempt at any ongoing story. So it is easy to skip any given issue without feeling you have missed out. That is something that simply never applied to 2000AD - from a kid when I first started reading it properly (after a couple of false starts) to today I could never bare to miss a Prog and I never have.
It is the same with what my daughter (5) buys - very little actual comic strip but loads of things to colour in and puzzles etc. She had even less loyalty to any of them and just buys whatever takes her fancy at the time.
Manga sells loads in Japan, and manga is dreadful*. If you can sell dreadful comics to a populace widely regarded to occupy the most hyperactive tech-savvy popular culture on Earth, I think you can sell good comics to kids who probably aren't even allowed to own a phone until they're 12.
*
I know that reads like a bit of a generalisation - because it is - but luckily for me it is also completely true.Quote from: IndigoPrime on 02 August, 2017, 12:21:37 PM(Does anyone here get The Phoenix? I've never seen a copy of that for sale, but is that bagged, or just a vanilla comic?)
Just a vanilla comic, no bags, no free gifts. It does have puzzles, mind, but rather than something chucked together in a "make your own word search" programme and plastered with clipart, the puzzles are actually part of ongoing features, with one strip - Von Doogan - essentially being a weekly series of logic puzzles that would give the Times crossword a run for its money.
The Phoenix recently put its cover price up for the first time in five years (it used to be £2.99), but the subscription rates remain exactly the same, so I imagine the raise had more to do with supermarket/newsagent sales.
I notice The Phoenix was doing subs trials on Facebook recently. I nearly grabbed one, but mini-IP's only just three, so it's probably a bit old.
As for the ongoing stuff, I recall when I was a kid comics were quite varied in that regard. Many of the action/licensed ones weren't particularly self-contained, although US imports often were (such as Spider-Man imports, which were coloured fare from the 1960s, like Molten Man). But the humour comics were rarely anything other than one-shots, and yet commanded a certain kind of loyalty from readers. It's a pity that isn't really being ingrained in kids, although, as Freeman says, at least the market is still scrapping (even if a lot of it isn't supporting nearly as many creators these days).
Interview with Robo-K33f about the special.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/2000-ad-publishers-revive-two-classic-british-horror-comics-halloween-1025958
QuoteI'm thinking a Battle & Oink! Summer Special
Heh. Actually, it would be good to see a revival of the comedy comics somehow. Perhaps there's no market for that kind of thing these days, but I'd love to think at least a special might be viable.
Do a SCREAM! & Oink crossover called SQUEAL! and I will buy two copies - already making it Rebellion's second-highest seller.
I'd be all over an Oink! special like a rash!
Especially if they could get the original creators back (Charlie Brooker, anyone?) and possibly even aim it at adults this time. I always look back on it as 'Viz for kids' anyway.
Weirdly enough, Davy Francis did the art for a one page story in last year's Hallowscream! (http://www.backfromthedepths.co.uk/hallowscream/)
(the pig reference on the cover is a coincidence)
2000ad needs Davy Francis.
Speaking as someone on the distaff side who owns every copy of Misty but is only dimly aware of Scream through its merger with Eagle I am quite happy for the Scream logo to be given prominence. If I was launching a horror comic now I would call it something like that even if it was aimed at girls.
Misty is a bit subtle and only worked in the 70s because of the tradition of giving girl's comics girl's names so it was part trad girls comic (with non scary and positively bouncy logo) and part dank fenland graveyard.
So I am happy to see a scary comic called Scream (and Misty) with a picture of a pretty lady on the front and hope it appears to both boys and girls of a gothic persuasion and sells by the bucket-load. I have preordered my copy anyway and am spreading the word.
Quote from: Woolly on 02 August, 2017, 05:51:41 PM
I'd be all over an Oink! special like a rash!
Especially if they could get the original creators back (Charlie Brooker, anyone?) and possibly even aim it at adults this time. I always look back on it as 'Viz for kids' anyway.
Making Oink! Viz for adults? Err, we already have Viz.
A new Oink! could be like Viz, only funny.*
Adults have already formulated Opinions on whether or not they'll read a comic, it's kids that have to be persuaded to take up the habit.
* this joke ©Viz publications.
Quote from: JLC on 11 August, 2017, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: Woolly on 02 August, 2017, 05:51:41 PM
I'd be all over an Oink! special like a rash!
Especially if they could get the original creators back (Charlie Brooker, anyone?) and possibly even aim it at adults this time. I always look back on it as 'Viz for kids' anyway.
Making Oink! Viz for adults? Err, we already have Viz.
No. Making Oink! Oink! for adults!*
*Note: I never said it was a
good idea...
On the topic of how children get/consume/choose comics, I have a few bits of anecdotal evidence.
Based on a chat with one of the editors who works at Titan on their weekly comics for 7-10 (including Batman and the Simpsons):
the target audience, roughly 7-10 year-olds, consistently say they LIKE the puzzle pages as much if not more than the strip stuff. Given that a lot of these comics are reprints of US stuff, it's not even cheaper/quicker to produce them.
Based on a panel at this year's London Book Fair, which featured the editor of Phoenix, and the managing editor of Beano Studios (plus Rebellion's own Ben Smith!), there's a massive uptake of children reading those two comics digitally. A lot are finding Beano comic (apparently they dropped the 'the' a few years ago; it's a thing) via the TV cartoons, the App and even the theme parks. They then get into the comic through the App store version. There are plenty who get it delivered by their newsagent still, but MUCH of this is parents ordering it for their children because that's what they did. But since the App launched last year, numbers of subscribers (digitally and print) have gone up.
Phoenix is also doing better and better each year, and a lot of their sales/subs are digital too. But the honest truth seems to be that the weekly print/digital issues are making a loss, offset slowly by sales of their GN collections. Basically, if it didn't have buy-in from the owner (David Fickling), it wouldn't have got where it is today - but it sounds like it's on course to start making money now that there's enough material in the bank to do the GN collections. I recommend Corpse Talk, personally!
Phoenix is aimed at, and genuinely appeals to, children aged 8-12. It was kind of deliberately conceived as a bridge between Beano and 2000AD, the three of those being just about the only UK originated comics with anything like a mainstream presence. Children who have aged out of wanting all the puzzles, and want to read story comics. And it's working!
It's also worth saying that Phoenix is in Waitrose and not in Smiths (although that might be changing soon?) purely because the Waitrose magazines buyer liked it and wanted it, whereas all other supermarkets + Smiths of old felt it wouldn't sell enough to justify the shelf space. It's not a middle-class conspiracy, honest!
So maybe the best/most realistic hope for a new Scream or Misty would start out as digital only?
<hides behind sofa to duck items being hurled at him>
Digital-only could be a thing if accessibility and availability are strong enough. Having spoken to digital comics producers, one thing old gits on this board need to understand is kids are perfectly content with the transience of media. They mostly don't care about any permanence of a collection, in print OR digital. I suspect that's largely to do with the sheer availability of content – if you have access to 30 million tracks, more telly than you could feasibly watch in a lifetime, and more comics than you could ever read, what does it matter if some of those disappear?
There's also something to be said for a loss-leader set-up IF you can subsequently get into profit. I suspect a lot of comics are really in this position – only making decent sums of money when the trades appear. But then that also suggests the Atomic Robo model might be one for the future: digital-only for ongoing, but the option of print for collections, for those who want them. (And, from my experience, kids do still like some books, at least for favourites – it appears to be the one chunk of traditional media that has a hope of surviving into the future.) That all said, it's the creation of material that's really the expensive thing – paper is cheap.
Quote from: AlexF on 16 August, 2017, 10:44:28 AM
the target audience, roughly 7-10 year-olds, consistently say they LIKE the puzzle pages as much if not more than the strip stuff.
I'm not saying he's lying, and I don't doubt there are kids who like such things, but I honestly can't think of any circumstances in which an editor doing publicity for his magazine is going to say "our cheapest material is the least popular" in front of industry journalists and readers.
QuotePhoenix is also doing better and better each year, and a lot of their sales/subs are digital too.
I've been reading the Phoenix for years, but the cracks are starting to show: they recently jacked their price up, have started reprinting old strips, the number of filler pages has increased in conjunction with a decrease in creator-owned material, and the number of issues going missing in the post are increasing. They missed two weeks in a row at one point, and when I emailed them about replacements, they tried to say I hadn't paid for the issues (I had), even though their PR department had
already sent out a group email (so it wasn't just me) saying that the error was a migration glitch on their part and that replacement issues had been printed and would be sent shortly. They already knew what was wrong, but were giving me the runaround trying to get me to go over my bank receipts to make sure that a digital transaction had been made, which seemed pointless at best, and at worst duplicitous.
Quote from: AlexF on 16 August, 2017, 10:44:28 AM
It's also worth saying that Phoenix is in Waitrose and not in Smiths (although that might be changing soon?) purely because the Waitrose magazines buyer liked it and wanted it, whereas all other supermarkets + Smiths of old felt it wouldn't sell enough to justify the shelf space. It's not a middle-class conspiracy, honest!
I've never considered before that Waitrose has a magazine buyer. I wonder what else they've signed up?
Quote from: Professor Bear on 16 August, 2017, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: AlexF on 16 August, 2017, 10:44:28 AM
the target audience, roughly 7-10 year-olds, consistently say they LIKE the puzzle pages as much if not more than the strip stuff.
I'm not saying he's lying, and I don't doubt there are kids who like such things, but I honestly can't think of any circumstances in which an editor doing publicity for his magazine is going to say "our cheapest material is the least popular" in front of industry journalists and readers.
Ah, but this wasn't in a public forum, it was a private chat with the editor and I was asking out of interest. Not that you were to know this!
Also, although creating puzzle pages is theoretically easier/faster than producing comic strip, it still requires a writer, an editor, a designer and an artist (potentially one person can do all 4 jobs, but it's rare). So it's not necessarily cheaper! Of course, the quality of the puzzle pages in these magazines varies wildly, and I'm sure some are dashed off by an overworked editor at the last minute. The good ones can be super engaging.
Not to blow my own trumpet*, but this bad boy took 7 people (2 writers + 1 designer + 4 artists) 6 months to put together!...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pocket-Puzzle-Book-Usborne/dp/1409549798/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503052294&sr=1-1&keywords=pocket+puzzle+book (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pocket-Puzzle-Book-Usborne/dp/1409549798/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503052294&sr=1-1&keywords=pocket+puzzle+book)
*Yeah, clearly I'm blowing my own trumpet
Broken quote fixed — IP
Glenn Fabry's Diamond Exclusive cover for the Scream & Misty Special (source: MultiversityComics.com (http://www.multiversitycomics.com/previews/fabry-scream-misty/)):
(http://multiversitystatic.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2017/09/FC-SCREAM-MISTY-DIAMOND-Exclusive.jpg)
So the logo of the girls' comic is bigger than the logo from the boys' comic? The castration of white male culture at the hands of the matriarchal conspiracy continues.
Terror of the Pats
Love that new cover, where is this for sale ?
Quote from: moly on 27 September, 2017, 06:50:13 PM
Love that new cover, where is this for sale ?
Preorder from Forbidden Planet. :)
https://forbiddenplanet.com/234252-screammisty-special-1-dcuk-fabry-exclusive-cover/
Quote from: Professor Bear on 27 September, 2017, 06:14:36 PM
So the logo of the girls' comic is bigger than the logo from the boys' comic? The castration of white male culture at the hands of the matriarchal conspiracy continues.
Not sure I'd call it 'castration'. Have you seen the size of that chopper?
Regarding The Phoenix, it's been on regular sale in my WH Smith's for at least a year. I've bought it for my youngest a few times, but he really doesn't like it, he says.
He has recently asked me to stop getting him the Beano, which he's been reading since he was about seven, because "it's now full of fads and trendy stuff like fidget spinners" (his words, he's 12) and despite my offering to buy him any comic whatsoever, said he'd prefer a games magazine. His brother (14) has had 2000ad weekly for the past three years or so, and gets upset when I ask him if he still wants me to get it for him, because "duh, obviously". We are currently negotiating my buying him a subscription if he goes to uni in four years.
SBT
The Phoenix is okay as a gateway to other comics, but I can see the lack of a cohesive identity losing younger readers once their attention spans start to expand. Apart from the Tamsin strips that appear once in a blue moon, it doesn't offer a lot in the way of substance.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 27 September, 2017, 06:14:36 PM
So the logo of the girls' comic is bigger than the logo from the boys' comic? The castration of white male culture at the hands of the matriarchal conspiracy continues.
Good! Not a moment too soon.
Watch the advert!
Scream/Misty special (https://youtu.be/P1x_L6HqlfM)
So much fun!
Joyful! :lol:
Excited and nervous!!!
Looks great. I will be buying the one with the correct cover.
My copy has arrived! I've ordered both covers (in fact two copies of the 'original' by mistake).
I look forward to reading it later.
Excitement in Hawk Towers reaches fever pitch, this is going to be a cracker.
Quote from: Mattofthespurs on 14 October, 2017, 10:22:22 AM
My copy has arrived! I've ordered both covers (in fact two copies of the 'original' by mistake).
I look forward to reading it later.
Mine too! Yet to read, but it looks to be a nice quality thing.
I confess I can't compare it to the originals, as I never read any back in the day.* I plan on getting that nice Misty connection at some point, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
* Maybe not a bad thing experiencing this for the first time, albeit I understand the stories will be original anyway.
Absolutely loved this-Sentinels and Black Max highlights for me. Wonderful updates.
Please Tharg more!!
I really liked every thing in the special. But most of them read more like pilots to revival then stand alone stories. Thirteenth Floor seems to be the only one coming back for sure. I really want to see more Death-Man: The Gathering and Fate of the Fairy Hunter. Those two really left me wanting.
I'd love to know how sales for this went and what are the prospects for a wider revival of the featured strips.
The whole thing gave me such a buzz.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 20 October, 2017, 04:32:27 PM
I really liked every thing in the special. But most of them read more like pilots to revival then stand alone stories. Thirteenth Floor seems to be the only one coming back for sure. I really want to see more Death-Man: The Gathering and Fate of the Fairy Hunter. Those two really left me wanting.
Yes that's what I felt. It seemed more like a first issue rather than a special. If we don't get more then it will be nothing more than a curio piece.
I got the impression we're getting more Death Man whether we want it or not.
Also, I misread the 13th Floor advert. I thought when it said 'I'm Back!' and '2018' it meant, New Series! But on second read, it just says Volume 1 collection. Oops.
So Molch-R will probably have a fit at this but I've only just realised that this is new material. I thought it was reprints. Sorry for not paying attention.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 25 October, 2017, 09:53:44 PM
So Molch-R will probably have a fit at this but I've only just realised that this is new material. I thought it was reprints. Sorry for not paying attention.
Go to your room and think about what you've done.
Just got this today. Some danged good stuff in there, stories and art both. Hope this is the start of more of these kinds of revivals, even just as occasional specials.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 25 October, 2017, 10:21:36 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 25 October, 2017, 09:53:44 PM
So Molch-R will probably have a fit at this but I've only just realised that this is new material. I thought it was reprints. Sorry for not paying attention.
Go to your room and think about what you've done.
Some good did come from watching that cockwomble's YouTube review.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 26 October, 2017, 01:43:36 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 25 October, 2017, 10:21:36 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 25 October, 2017, 09:53:44 PM
So Molch-R will probably have a fit at this but I've only just realised that this is new material. I thought it was reprints. Sorry for not paying attention.
Go to your room and think about what you've done.
Some good did come from watching that cockwomble's YouTube review.
Oh he was delightful.
"I acknowledge at length that this comic failed 30 years ago when there was a much larger domestic comics market - and now I demand to know why they haven't done this new version exactly like that one. Also the Beano is ruined now because girls can read it."
I enjoyed the art in this a lot. My reaction to the stories was more varied, mostly lightweight introductory stuff, where I would have preferred something more complete and suitable substantial, considering this is a special (akin to an annual, in my mind). It's mostly not bad however. The only story, I think I disliked, was Death Man, as it just seemed a way of shoehorning in a bunch of characters in a kind of cross-over. (I suspect those that read the originals back in the day may have got a kick out of it, though, but it left me scratching my head, and a bit.) That being said, the idea is interesting, and I'd be interested to see what they do with it, in future.
My favourite tales seemed to be the Misty portion, which unfortunately was the smallest. The Dracula one wasn't bad as a kind of introduction/catch up.
Quote from: Mardroid on 26 October, 2017, 05:21:29 PMThe only story, I think I disliked, was Death Man, as it just seemed a way of shoehorning in a bunch of characters in a kind of cross-over. (I suspect those that read the originals back in the day may have got a kick out of it, though, but it left me scratching my head, and a bit.)
I have raved about the characters that appeared in Death Man - especially Blake Edmonds from Death Wish - here and elsewhere, and I was disappointed in Death Man not just as a standalone story (it's yet another Zenith rehash, and starts in a previous 2000ad special), but also as a reintroduction to these characters, seeing as none of them actually do anything that they're noted for, and the ones that get to speak are off-model, thus negating any nostalgia. I gather other more UK comics-literate types like Bear Alley (no relation) were similarly confounded.
Quote from: Mardroid on 26 October, 2017, 05:21:29 PM
I enjoyed the art in this a lot. My reaction to the stories was more varied, mostly lightweight introductory stuff, where I would have preferred something more complete and suitable substantial, considering this is a special (akin to an annual, in my mind). It's mostly not bad however. The only story, I think I disliked, was Death Man, as it just seemed a way of shoehorning in a bunch of characters in a kind of cross-over. (I suspect those that read the originals back in the day may have got a kick out of it, though, but it left me scratching my head, and a bit.) That being said, the idea is interesting, and I'd be interested to see what they do with it, in future.
My favourite tales seemed to be the Misty portion, which unfortunately was the smallest. The Dracula one wasn't bad as a kind of introduction/catch up.
I agree the Misty stuff was best. Fate of the Fairy Hunter seemed like a nice one & done, Return of the Sentinels was a good introduction but like a lot of the content felt like a first episode rather than a complete story so if there isn't any more it might be a waste of time.
Was disappointed that there was a lot of stuff that didn't appear in either Scream or Misty, considering the wealth of material available. Loved the artwork in Fate of the Fairy Hunter, The Dracula Files & 13th Floor. Death-Man: The Gathering was the worst strip, a prologue really with loads of characters that were rushed introduced.
All in all I hope we have more issues.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 26 October, 2017, 02:47:44 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 26 October, 2017, 01:43:36 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 25 October, 2017, 10:21:36 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 25 October, 2017, 09:53:44 PM
So Molch-R will probably have a fit at this but I've only just realised that this is new material. I thought it was reprints. Sorry for not paying attention.
Go to your room and think about what you've done.
Some good did come from watching that cockwomble's YouTube review.
Oh he was delightful.
"I acknowledge at length that this comic failed 30 years ago when there was a much larger domestic comics market - and now I demand to know why they haven't done this new version exactly like that one. Also the Beano is ruined now because girls can read it."
Link.
Quote from: JLC on 27 October, 2017, 06:47:58 PM
Link.
Oh, seriously... you don't want to go there!
Just take our word for it and don't inflate his view count and financially reward him for being an arsehole.