How did Death actually escape....?

[Thread Zero]

No not in My Name Is Death but Death Trap.

Although lets hope John explains that one too!

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The thing is, in Death Trap the robo warden 1138 says, and I quote:
"Round the clock robo judge warders, state of the art locking systems and laser defense grids."

Yet when the truck full of hi ex, hits Iso block 99, only one robo judge survives! What happened to the others?
They can't all have been destroyed!
We dont hear any of the other robots before the collision either!

I think that's the only bit of the story that doesn't gel. Death escapes too easy. The laser grid isn't used as well. I know part of the block was blown up but still. I think there would be real judges posted to the block as well, as a second line of defence.

Dave, I also think you should put more action in any new Dredd cd. They still seem to be too dialogue driven. I know it's an audio cd but I would like to see more action. A Dredd story about some serial killer. Use parts of the city. Dredd has to hunt him down. Maybe done 100% serious without any humour.

Dredd on his own without Steel. I think she isn't needed in every Dredd adventure.

Hmmm. Maybe I should write one...

scojo

[GordonR]

>Hmmm. Maybe I should write one...
>
>scojo

Maybe you should.  It would certainly be a more realistic goal than this screenplay nonsense which you're currently subjecting us all to.

After all, Big Finish plan to do about eight of these a year, and *someone's* got to write them, haven't they?  Why don't you drop them an email asking them if they're looking for any more Dredd audio writers?

Although you might want to think about doing some *serious* work on your dialogue-writing skills first.  I think the most notable thing about your script is that, for someone who wants to be a writer and who clearly knows a lot about Dredd and his world, it's downright terrifying just how far off the mark your Dredd dialogue is.

I really mean this, scojo.  Look at any published Dredd story.  Any one at all.  Read the dialogue Dredd has in it.  Read it out loud to yourself.  And then do the same with the Dredd dialogue in your movie script.

See the difference yet?  Your Dredd doesn't sound anything remotely like the real thing.

[Thread Zero]

Before you judge me, first

A) Give me some examples where my Dredd dialogue is inaccurate. Oh what a surprise, you haven't. Just a sweeping comment. How typical Milo:)

I think my dialogue is very good. A prime example would be the first Grand Hall Of Justice scene. Very witty I feel.

B) Read the entire script.

I bet for every example you show where my Dredd speaks incorrectly, I can give you an exact prog where he speaks similar.

Milo, give me an example then. I have every single prog and I will find you an example where the original Dredd speaks in a similar fashion. Or not if I am wrong.

Over to you then Milo.

scojo

[Thread Zero]

Perhaps I should start for you for you Milo.

My Dredd says creep and punk. Original does.

My Dredd says too many vehicles/ perps in the way. Original does.

What you also fail to appreciate is this...
Any Dredd film has to be written for a non Dredd audience. In other words there aren't third person narration captions like you get in a comic.

So sometimes you have to have the characters explain things. See the scene when Dredd explains what a futsie is.

Anyone as I say, give me examples of my poor Dredd dialogue.....

scojo

[W. R. Logan]

>Over to you then Milo.

Haven't we had this converstaion before? I'm sure I can remember a time when professional writers told you where you were going wrong and all you did was argue the toss. Now we see Scojo's next big writing project and the same people are starting to comment on it, so expect the roundabout of I'm right and the whole world is wrong from Scojo.
My question is how much money have you made from writing? How much money have some of the people who have offered you advice made?
At a guess I'd say you'll say zero, whereas some of the advice is coming from people who pay their mortgage and live off the proceeds of their writing. How about biting your tongue and listen to what they have to say, they'd probably offer even more constructive critisim if you didn't piss people off so much.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Link: http://www.2000ad.nu/classof79" target="_blank">Class Of '79

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[GordonR]

>Anyone as I say, give me examples of my poor Dredd dialogue.....

Why certainly.  How about this clunker, for example, taken purely at random from one of the latter sections?

"DREDD
I?m sure you do, Leech. Still no harm in checking, is there?"

That's nothing like Dredd, and you do this all the way through the script.  Dredd adding pointless chatty phrases like  'incidentally', 'actually' etc to his sentences.  

Or the all-time clunker champion, right at the end:

"Let only the guilty fear me. Justice has a face. And I am it. For I am the law. I am Judge Dredd."

How generous of you, scojo, to gift such a great joke to any audience willing to sit through two hours of Dredd versus the evil sugar-dealers.  Trust me, they'll be howling with laughter when you give them this camp classic.  Or was it your intention to write a sly comedy all along?

Anyway, don't just take my word for it.  One or two people here and over at the 2000AD newsgroup have given you much longer and more painfully accurate critiques of your script than I've got time to write here.  And, yes, they all seem to mention your terrible dialogue, amongst other things.

Or, is it as always seems to be the case with you, that everyone else is wrong and you're always right when it comes to amy discussion about your under-appreciated writing abilities?

I was serious about the suggestion that you should pitch a Dredd audio script to Big Finish, btw.  I mean, good lord, if they're hiring Dave Stone to write Dredd, you might well have a shot after all ;>

Seriously, though, put your Dredd writing skills to the acid test and pitch it to a professional outlet who are maybe looking for more material.  Or are you afraid of what a professional editor might think of your work?

 Now, if you excuse me, I've got a paid script treatment for a Playstation 2 game to get finished...

[Thread Zero]

As ever Milo you are wrong.

You criticse me for that line:
"DREDD
I'm sure you do, Leech. Still no harm in checking, is there?"

Is that it?

Whats wrong with that line?

Milo, if this is an example of my terrible dialogue, I am shocked!

Dredd is winding Leach up. Leach says he lives a virtuous existence and Dredd agrees, then says he will look anyway.

Dredd doesn't believe Leech.

Has anyone heard of subtext here?
Hidden meanings in sentences, I guess not. Used a lot in good dialogue.

Milo, I cannot believe this is a serious criticism. I really can't. If this is the best you can do, well I am, I am speechless.

For example, when Dredd says

"There's no need to show us the way out."
he is beginning sarcastic!

Of course he doesn't need to be shown the way out!

Like he will look in Leach's hab regardless of Leach's insistence he is innocent.

SUBTEXT! Real meaning hidden.

Read that whole Crime swoop scene again and imagine Dredd is saying the lines in a sarcastic tone.

Get it now?

Someone look up the word subtext in a dictionary for god's sake.

Or the all-time clunker champion, right at the end:

"Let only the guilty fear me. Justice has a face. And I am it. For I am the law. I am Judge Dredd."

That is to end the film on. Considering everyone knows the I am the law saying, I hardly think my line is a clunker.

If this is the best you can do, well roll on my bad dialogue. On the nose dialogue isn't for me. Sorry.

scojo

[Thread Zero]

Oh one more thing Milo,

Patrick on the ng said the two plotlines wern't related.

I told him they were not meant to be until the end.

To say he didn't get my screenplay would be something of an understatment.

I love the way you lot attack my writing over trivial things like:

"No Harm checkingis there?"

Frankly its the most pathetic thing I have ever read. I am being one hundred percent serious here.
Reminds me of Jim who criticised me for using here is instead of here's. Or somthing similar. a few months back.

If you lot are incapable of reading in between the lines, and unable to see the points where Dredd is sarcastic, well I pity you Milo etc.


scojo


 

[Thread Zero]

Frankly Milo's criticsms are pathetic. If I met him for real I would say that to his face.

I bet he could't write a better line than:

Leach:
I never knew love making was now a crime.

Dredd:
It isn't. But we're workin on it.

Or when the butler falls to the ground unconscious
and Dredd says:
There's no need to get up.

Ever heard of humour?

To attack me for lines like this, saying my dialogue is awful, is pathetic.

scojo

[Thread Zero]

Criticisms too.

Can spell when I try!

scojo

[Thread Zero]

An another thing Milo and Jim,

(probably typing this to myself but what the hell)

You say my dialogue is awful.

Here's a great example of my dialogue:
The scene where Dredd questions the ugly in the med bay. Just over half way through the script.

Where's the awful dialogue in that?

My dialogue in that scene is as good as anything Wagner could write.

And Dredd's final line to the perp is funny too.

So I can't agree with you at all.

scojo

[davidbishop]

'How did Death actually escape.... in ... Death Trap? The thing is, in Death Trap the robo warden 1138 says, and I quote:
"Round the clock robo judge warders, state of the art locking systems and laser defense grids."
Yet when the truck full of hi ex, hits Iso block 99, only one robo judge survives! What happened to the others?
They can't all have been destroyed!
We dont hear any of the other robots before the collision either!'

Yes, that didn't work very well. In retrospect, I probably would write that differently. On an audio adventure, it's problematic making big splashy action sequences that would look great in a comic work just for the ears.

As for why you don't hear any other robo-judges before the explosion, well, there's a simply answer. The audio adventures are produced to a strict budget which limits the number of professional actors employed. Once you go above a certain number of characters, you have to ask the actors to double up - providing the voices for more than one character. That causes its own problems. So, where possible, the audios need to keep the character count to a minimum - hence the lack of multiple robo-judges in Death Trap.

'I think that's the only bit of the story that doesn't gel. Death escapes too easy. The laser grid isn't used as well. I know part of the block was blown up but still. I think there would be real judges posted to the block as well, as a second line of defence.'

Actually, half the building is destroyed - it's not quite World Trade Centre destruction, but it's pretty close. There were no human judges present for the reason stated in the story - Death can't easily possess robots.

'Dave, I also think you should put more action in any new Dredd cd. They still seem to be too dialogue driven. I know it's an audio cd but I would like to see more action. A Dredd story about some serial killer. Use parts of the city. Dredd has to hunt him down. Maybe done 100% serious without any humour.'

Like I said, all action stories create real problems in audio-only adventures. I'd certainly agree there's some clunky dialogue in Wanted: Dredd or Alive and that's all my fault. Death Trap is an improvement, IMHO. My third Dredd is much better - but I would say that, wouldn't I?

Sorry, but I wouldn't do a humour-less Dredd audio. Humour is a big part of Dredd's appeal - not so much the character, more the city and its people. To strip out all of that just turns Dredd into an ultra-violent cop. Of course, it's easy to go too far in the other direction - a balance of the two is best, I think.

Oh, and my name is David - not Dave.

'Dredd on his own without Steel. I think she isn't needed in every Dredd adventure.'

Perhaps not, but she is a useful character to help drive the plot forward. You can split story threads between Steel and Dredd, which is useful to breaking up scenes and helping to show the progression of time.

'Hmmm. Maybe I should write one... '

Go right ahead. I think you'll find it quite challenging!

davidbishop

[Jim_Campbell]

> Frankly its the most pathetic thing I have ever
> read. I am being one hundred percent
> serious here.
> Reminds me of Jim who criticised me for
> using here is instead of here's. Or somthing
> similar. a few months back.

Sigh ... Your dialogue-writing is, at best,  stilted and, at worst, hysterically ham-fisted.

If you can't see why colloquialisms make dialogue flow more naturally, then you've no business calling yourself a writer.

This instance to which you refer (and it was the difference between using "it's" and "it is", IIRC) occured because _you_ bloody _asked_ me to be specific and, when I finally got my point across, you began bleating about how I was nit-picking.

Every line of dialogue I've ever had published has been read aloud at least twice and probably re-written that many times.

Every major character has reams of backstory that there is no point revealing in the script because it's not relevant to the plot, but it helps _me_ understand the character, helps _me_ to hear their voice.

It's not always about naturalistic dialogue - Daemonifuge didn't have very much - it's about giving your characters a distinctive voice. With pre-established characters, it's about maintaining the voice that the character already has.

You've had that "Justice has a face ..." drivel critiqued more than once as an example of an absoluter howler.

It's just plain bad dialogue, Scojo. No more, no less. A good writer listens to what other writers (and fans) say about their work and learns from it, rather than berating them for misunderstanding his or her genius.

Get a grip, lad.

Cheers

Jim

[Thread Zero]

Hi David. Sorry for calling you Dave. Thanks for your reply.

So Dave,

I agree with your comments about Dredd needing to have a balance between comedy and seriousness.  My you know what (on the fan page hint hint!) has a similar balance.

Although I wouldn't mind hearing one cd where it's played completely straight. A democracy storyline maybe?

Interesting what you say about the budget. Never really thought about that before. I remember you said something about audio working best when there are only a few voices in any given scene. Otherwise it can get confusing.

Whether Dredd really works as an audio or not, I do like them. They are fun.
I must admit Dave, the scene where Dredd first meets Death and they spar (verbally that is) is great.
Death claims Joe is just like him. He taunts him.

Worth buying.

scojo -thinking that Dave gag has run its course
 

[Thread Zero]

Jim,

You choose the final closing line. You take it out of context and say it's bad.

Surely you realize it's the CLOSING LINE to the script. AND DREDD IS NOT SEEN. IT IS A VOICE OVER. (V.0)

It's supposed to sum up Dredd and end the movie. That is why it is the final line. Imagine Dredd saying that line with such authority, you are taken aback.

That was the point of the line.

If you don't like my script, at least say the story is bad becuase the structure is poor, bad characters etc. No, all you go on about is some line, as if that is the sum of its parts.

Its like reviewing a film and saying you hate it cos one line stinks. You ignore everything else but just comment about:

Let only the guilty fear me. Justice has a face and I am it. For I am the law. I am Judge Dredd.

What's is so wrong with that line?
If an actor said that line with real menace and authority, it would work.

I think you talk doggy doo Jim.

At the end of the day we're entitled to our point of view. But to criticse my writing because of lines like that, well I think you are cluching at very weak straws indeed.


scojo