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Author Topic: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES  (Read 4160 times)

Goaty

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #15 on: 11 October, 2017, 06:39:53 pm »
Plus, it's top secret.

AKA Black Alert. So it classified.

TordelBack

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #16 on: 11 October, 2017, 11:00:18 pm »
I do get that, honest.  I also appreciate that the show can't - and shouldn't be - constrained by 50 years of established guff. That would be disastrous, and besides no Trek movie, series, season or individual episode has ever felt obliged to do so.  There are episodes of Voyager where characters assert the complete impossibility of things that actually happened to them just the episode before.  (I watched an episode just tonight where the Doctor and Janeway discuss her hypothetical reaction to the supposedly unlikely scenario of Harry Kim meeting an alien girl, falling in love and wanting to leave the ship... an event that had occurred in the previous season).

It's just... even if turns out to have inescapable unworkable side effects (which it will), you'd think the existence of instantaneous spore-based travel might have come up again independently in a society of scientists and frequently desperate explorers, and the dozens of alien races and rivals we've encountered, over the subsequent 100+ years the various shows have covered. 

Instead of just being discovered once by Stamets and his pal, and then hushed up.
« Last Edit: 11 October, 2017, 11:05:56 pm by TordelBack »

blackmocco

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #17 on: 11 October, 2017, 11:17:08 pm »
I do get that, honest.  I also appreciate that the show can't - and shouldn't be - constrained by 50 years of established guff. That would be disastrous, and besides no Trek movie, series, season or individual episode has ever felt obliged to do so.  There are episodes of Voyager where characters assert the complete impossibility of things that actually happened to them just the episode before.  (I watched an episode just tonight where the Doctor and Janeway discuss her hypothetical reaction to the supposedly unlikely scenario of Harry Kim meeting an alien girl, falling in love and wanting to leave the ship... an event that had occurred in the previous season).

It's just... even if turns out to have inescapable unworkable side effects (which it will), you'd think the existence of instantaneous spore-based travel might have come up again independently in a society of scientists and frequently desperate explorers, and the dozens of alien races and rivals we've encountered, over the subsequent 100+ years the various shows have covered. 

Instead of just being discovered once by Stamets and his pal, and then hushed up.

I guess the easiest cop-out answer on my part is perhaps it has come up, just not on the Enterprise, Enterprise-A, Enterprise-D, DS9 or Voyager.
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #18 on: 13 October, 2017, 01:41:00 pm »
I think I've figured out why I'm not enjoying this very much. It's a bit of an arsey reason, though, which is disappointing.

It's because it's about war.

The original Trek was all about hope for the future - in the midst of the Cold War we're given a Russian as a trusted bridge officer, in the midst of racism and sex inequality we're given a black woman as a trusted bridge officer. It was fantastic in ways that are just standard today, in ways that we can't fully appreciate.

This new series has none of that - it's all about looking good, being clever  and shooting aliens.

There's enough real war in the world these days, I don't want it in my Star Trek as well.

(Yes, DS9 did war too, but that was in a time before the world fell into insanity.)


blackmocco

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #19 on: 13 October, 2017, 03:47:13 pm »
Sharky, the original series and TNG (and DS9 more specifically) dealt with war every second episode. Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, Borg, etc. Star Trek has always reflected the times it lived in. This is no different.

Maybe you just don't like this show. There doesn't always have to be a reason.
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TordelBack

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #20 on: 13 October, 2017, 04:18:53 pm »
This new series has none of that - it's all about looking good, being clever  and shooting aliens.

You're not the only genuine trekkie of my acquaintance I've heard expressing dislike (or even disgust) for the series, and there's no reason that someone who likes Next Generation has to instantly glom onto this very different beast.  I personally don't rate DS9 as highly as most seem to, precisely because I could never get behind the idea of Starfleet on a war footing.

HOWEVER, you're wrong about the series lacking the elements you cite. The interesting bits for me sp far have been the tension between Starfleet SOP as we understand it, and the extreme actions that Burnham initially and Lorca subsequently are prepared to undertake to defeat the existential threat posed by an effectively medieval ideology, itself a response to perceived acculturation.  That science, co-operation, empathy and all that good Federation stuff still seems to trump the blindly aggressive victory-at-any-cost attitude seems to me to be as pertinent and optimistic a theme as ST has ever had.

At a slightly more meta- level, we kicked off with two non-white women as our captain and commander, and still have a broadly 50/50 M/F crew supporting a very central female POC lead - that's no small matter, even in 2017.

Plus: explosions! Spaceships!  Aliens!
« Last Edit: 13 October, 2017, 04:23:39 pm by TordelBack »

The Legendary Shark

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #21 on: 13 October, 2017, 04:26:59 pm »
The focus, though, was more about avoiding war and finding other ways to settle disputes. Sure, there were shooty episodes in all series but Discovery seems to be all about war from the get go.

Yes, the ethnicity and sex of the characters are diverse - probably moreso than any other iteration - but in this day and age that's no so cutting edge.

There are many things I do like about what I've seen so far but I just find it disappointing. If I want to watch wars amongst the stars I'd watch Star Wars - I expect more from Star Trek.

I told you it was an arsey reason! :D


Professor Bear

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #22 on: 13 October, 2017, 06:31:05 pm »
Orville - because I'm going to derail this thread too - covered this very topic this week.  With the creature designs for their own Klingon-types being quite close to Discovery's, it was hard not to think of it as a potshot, even though with USTV production schedules being what they are, I know it probably wasn't.

blackmocco

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #23 on: 13 October, 2017, 06:39:56 pm »
The focus, though, was more about avoiding war and finding other ways to settle disputes. Sure, there were shooty episodes in all series but Discovery seems to be all about war from the get go.

Yes, the ethnicity and sex of the characters are diverse - probably moreso than any other iteration - but in this day and age that's no so cutting edge.

There are many things I do like about what I've seen so far but I just find it disappointing. If I want to watch wars amongst the stars I'd watch Star Wars - I expect more from Star Trek.

I told you it was an arsey reason! :D

Well, it is all about war. That's the whole point of the show. Exploring what it's like when these non-aggressive characters are actually put to the ultimate test and thrust into the middle of a war without it all being wrapped up neatly in 44 minutes with a nice, haughty moral at the end. It's an attempt to do something different with the template (and honestly, I don't see that much difference in tone from DS9's war arc. This one just looks less cheesy because they're throwing in $8 mil per episode.) Honestly, space battles and war were dime-a-dozen on the earlier shows, particularly TOS, but they didn't have the fx budget to show us how that would have looked. Like TB, I think you're missing the grey areas between the black-and-white that the show is very clearly showing us but look, if it's not working for you, it's not working for you. That's okay too. There's plenty of other TV to watch.
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blackmocco

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #24 on: 13 October, 2017, 06:46:57 pm »
Orville - because I'm going to derail this thread too - covered this very topic this week.  With the creature designs for their own Klingon-types being quite close to Discovery's, it was hard not to think of it as a potshot, even though with USTV production schedules being what they are, I know it probably wasn't.

I doubt CBS gives two shits what Orville is doing at this point...
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #25 on: 13 October, 2017, 07:21:02 pm »
I'm not trying to convince anybody, just explaining why I, personally, find this series disappointing so far.


Goaty

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #26 on: 13 October, 2017, 07:26:04 pm »
Well, I enjoy it, and it's the Star Trek!

von Boom

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #27 on: 13 October, 2017, 08:03:29 pm »
Orville - because I'm going to derail this thread too - covered this very topic this week.  With the creature designs for their own Klingon-types being quite close to Discovery's, it was hard not to think of it as a potshot, even though with USTV production schedules being what they are, I know it probably wasn't.

I doubt CBS gives two shits what Orville is doing at this point...

Nor Fox.

JOE SOAP

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #28 on: 13 October, 2017, 08:32:01 pm »
For the first time in my life I'm regularly watching Star Trek, so it must be doing something wrong.

Professor Bear

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #29 on: 13 October, 2017, 10:53:45 pm »
As has been noted, the first Trek reboot movie did great and brought in many new fans.  Who promptly fucked off by the third one.

Orville - because I'm going to derail this thread too - covered this very topic this week.  With the creature designs for their own Klingon-types being quite close to Discovery's, it was hard not to think of it as a potshot, even though with USTV production schedules being what they are, I know it probably wasn't.

I doubt CBS gives two shits what Orville is doing at this point...

Nor Fox.

That's where you're wrong - Fox will be taking careful note of when to cancel it.