Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!  (Read 2645 times)

Leigh S

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 5196
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #30 on: 18 October, 2017, 09:10:19 pm »
Possibly they just didn't like it? In the sense it was off "model" (which given how flexible Dredd is, is some feat), scrappily and seemingly hurriedly drawn and at times weirdly framed  - that last panel....

In don't need to compare it to the best or worse to judge it on its own merits, which are for my eye, some nice colouring, some nice aliens and a sense of fun in the populating of the crowd scenes, but failing for the already mentioned reasons

dweezil2

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 4423
  • Credit Cards Accepted.
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/ashleybeechbum
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #31 on: 18 October, 2017, 09:48:09 pm »
"I don't like the art" I can understand, "It's the worst art evah!!!!" Not so much.

dweezil2

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 4423
  • Credit Cards Accepted.
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/ashleybeechbum
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #32 on: 18 October, 2017, 09:50:07 pm »
Really quite shocked at the vitriol levelled at the Dredd art! ... In my 40 years plus of reading the comic I've seen better and I've certainly seen worse.

The reaction on social media is an interesting way to gauge the age of readers. When you see someone claim this is the worst art the strip's ever seen, you can tell they stopped reading before 1990.

The names of Russell Fox, Ilya, and Manuel Benet must be foreign to them. Like Simon Roy, none of them are awful artists, but they didn't demonstrate a great understanding of what makes the strip or the character work.

I'm guessing this Frank.

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12533
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #33 on: 18 October, 2017, 09:51:21 pm »
Art is of course subjective but I'm always a little surprised by how conservative fans of 2000ad can be when it comes to comic art. One of the things I love most about the comic is it exposes me to stuff I might otherwise not see and art like this feels fresh and different. While I might not have read Prophet or know Simon Roys work I love seeing these different takes on a character who we've seen drawn so many times in so many ways.

That doesn't invalidate anyone not liking the art, arts like that, its just that sometimes you can spot an artist and draw breathe cos you can predict the reaction... and of course sometimes I'll agree with it. Its just sometimes people get so excited, like art they don't get on with on Dredd feels like its an insult or some such. Rather than a gentle shrug of the shoulder, a quiet ho hum, not for me and move on...

... that cover design though this week IS AWFUL AND HAS DESTROYED MY LIFE!!!!

Magnetica

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1060
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #34 on: 18 October, 2017, 09:57:28 pm »
I read a lot of negative comments about it on social media before I read it and I was concerned to say the least. But actually I think Frank has a point about it being the depiction of Dredd, or more specifically for me the uniform that is a bit off. The rest of it is perfectly fine. And again as Frank says even some of the greats took a while to get their Dredd look right. As well as Ron Smith, the one I remember is Ian Gibson (but I actually only read his earliest Dredds in recent years so they were viewed with the benefit of hindsight) - the helmet just looked all wrong. And then he developed his way of drawing it and it became one of the classic depictions.

Richard

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1587
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #35 on: 18 October, 2017, 10:09:50 pm »
I liked Russell Fox! Especially on that Armitage special about the haunted house.

geronimo

  • Member
  • Mek-Quakes Leftovers
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Speaking as a failed comics artist & writer.......
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #36 on: 18 October, 2017, 10:35:59 pm »
After hearing all the negativity I was surprised to find myself enjoy the strip more than I expected; I think the presence of the aliens gave MC-1 a sense of a cosmopolitan-galactic city which I haven't felt in recent times.

But the plot was just a bit 'meh' as they are these days overall, and I reckon that is what has annoyed the Squaxx, the standard of Dredd stories has really slipped and now the standard of the art looks like it could be in freefall too and that would be the last straw for a lot of readers.

As a fan of Slaine I already feel taken for granted the way the plot is stretched to catwalk levels of unhealthy thinness, but Absalom and Indigo Prime show that the more mature and sophisticated strips work best nowadays, after all we are a more mature and sophisticated audience these days!!! :)

The Corinthian

  • Member
  • Page Numbering Droid
  • **
  • Posts: 166
  • Gaze into the Fist of Pob!
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #37 on: 18 October, 2017, 11:43:01 pm »
The reaction on social media is an interesting way to gauge the age of readers. When you see someone claim this is the worst art the strip's ever seen, you can tell they stopped reading before 1990.

I saw the strip before seeing any online comment and my immediate reaction was "this looks like something that would have been in a Sci-Fi Special c.1992/3" (just as an observation rather than a criticism).

Personally I thought it was a good match for the alien material, perhaps not so well for the MC-1 stuff, but very, very far from the worst that Tooth has ever seen.

CalHab

  • Member
  • Sentient Tea Bot
  • **
  • Posts: 387
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #38 on: 19 October, 2017, 07:40:42 am »
Art is of course subjective but I'm always a little surprised by how conservative fans of 2000ad can be when it comes to comic art.

Many readers (and commenters) are not actually readers of comics, just readers of 2000AD. Hence when something doesn’t fit their narrow definition of what 2000AD is, they get upset c.f. John Hicklenton.

SmallBlueThing(Reborn)

  • Member
  • Sub Basement Sewer Unit
  • *
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #39 on: 19 October, 2017, 08:46:27 am »
I'm afraid I also thought the art on the Dredd strip, er, "not to my liking". I could say more but for some reason feel like that would be unwelcome. I hope we never see the like in the prog again, unless he tries a completely different style.
Cover also stuck out for me as being absolutely appalling. Not sure if the subject matter (sheets) or the cluttered straplines, but I've not seen a prog cover that would have forced my money back in my pocket so hard as that in a very long time.
Slaine was okay (will read better in the collection), Grey Area was a decent end to a game changing story and I look forward to more, Indigo Prime still seems to be telling a story in the most obtuse way possible, and the highlight was the return of Harry.
Usually when the prog is middling, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but with that cover, that Dredd art, Indigo Prime and that font in Slaine... this gets a double raspberry from me.
SBT

norton canes

  • Member
  • Page Numbering Droid
  • **
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #40 on: 19 October, 2017, 10:45:22 am »
Lots to pick up on this week, as the longer than usual thread testifies.

Cover: Like most I love the illustration itself (although, yeah, it could have been a bit more blood-soaked), but it's all downhill from there in terms of font choice, layout etc.

Dredd: This is the first time I've encountered Simon Roy's work. Having read this thread and seen that he's an artist of some renown, I've Googled his other work and really liked what I've seen. Pretty much everything he does in this strip is great, with the exception of the Judges, but... let's remember that plenty of legendary 2000 AD artists have taken a few goes to find the right balance between their style and the strip's 'house' style. From his work here I reckon Simon would be great on a Cursed Earth story.

Plot-wise it was OK but I didn't get the thing about the alien's hands? They looked exactly the same as the suckery hands of the other faction and the gun laying on the floor was the same as the ones they were all using on the first page, no?

Slaine: If I read this in one go in a TPB I think I'd be happy. In weekly installments, it's not especially satisfying. 

Indigo Prime: Lovely stuff, especially the panel where the blood gushes from the mirrors. The panel where Jerry is sitting very casually with his muscle structure on display is great too.

Absalom: First time for me with this strip. Reminds me a bit of Ben Aaronovitch's 'Rivers of London' stories. Hooked already.

Grey Area: Oh. A couple of weeks ago I was expecting this to be a 12-part mega-story. Never mind... it was wrapped up pretty adroitly, pity we didn't get to see more of the AGS, unfortunately they just ended up as villainous cyphers. Early 2018 for more, please.   


In all the high standard kicked off by prog 2050 has been well maintained over the subsequent weeks, loving the progs right now.

Richard

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1587
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #41 on: 19 October, 2017, 04:34:22 pm »
Quote
...the gun laying on the floor was the same as the ones they were all using on the first page, no?

No, it was one of the robots' guns. Look again and only three of the four robots are armed.

TordelBack

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 23237
  • Thunder Chops is dragged off, gnashing...
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #42 on: 19 October, 2017, 07:51:50 pm »
How odd to come here specifinlcally to praise the Dredd this week only to see it being described as 'the last straw'! Thought the art was delightful, packed with fun details, and the story solid and well told.  There's no accounting for taste!

Frank

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7181
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #43 on: 19 October, 2017, 08:26:46 pm »
(Zenith is) 'Stock, Aitken, and Marvelman'.

There it is, Homer; the smartest thing you'll ever say, and there's no one around to hear it.

None of the stories grab me, so I'll echo Richard and Magnetica's thoughts on Grey Area's genre hopping. It's worth remembering this was nobody's favourite strip until Abnett ditched the initial premise with the God Star/Holiday On The Buses storylines.

Abnett and Harrison give good BANG-BANG, but why the former felt Bitch Face's technical acumen needed mansplaining is a mystery. It joins Absalom's 'in a relationship' status update and discussion of police employment policy in belt and braces corner.

No unnecessary detail in Tiernen Trevallion's wonderful art; the esoteric filigree on everything from soft furnishings to capstones is evidence of an artist fully engaged with his material. This art was the highlight of the issue, for me, and the dog with the robot arse made me laugh out loud.

His character design is incredible, although the recurrence of the Batman 1966 trope of genteel villain with two freaky henchmen so soon after Praetorious and his Hollow Men in The Alienist invites comparisons. It's not a competition, but dog-skulled robot huntsmen win.

Also, MY STONES HAVE DROPPED and I CANNOT COME NIGH TO MYSELF, FOR I AM LACKING IN SANCTITY are comedy gold.



Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12533
    • View Profile
Re: Prog 2053 - Leap of Wraith!
« Reply #44 on: 19 October, 2017, 09:21:11 pm »
Art is of course subjective but I'm always a little surprised by how conservative fans of 2000ad can be when it comes to comic art.

Many readers (and commenters) are not actually readers of comics, just readers of 2000AD. Hence when something doesn’t fit their narrow definition of what 2000AD is, they get upset c.f. John Hicklenton.

Oh yeah I get that, but that makes it all the more surprising to me. I read a LOT of comics and have pretty diverse tastes in our old four colour delights. I place a lot of that at the door of 2000ad. One of the things I love most about the title is it exposes me to many stories, writers and artists I might otherise drift past. It really diversifies my appreciation of the medium as a whole and the diverse potential in it.

For while there's a core tone to much of 2000ad its always been a pretty broad church and never had an artistic style that's dominated in a way you'd get a house style in many mainstream (US that is) comics.