Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War  (Read 1235 times)

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12527
    • View Profile
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #15 on: 29 October, 2017, 04:19:01 pm »
it's a book you don't have to buy that has zero effect on the original version.

And you could say the exact same thing about Before Watchmen.

Well yes exactly. Though lets not get over excited here. Before Watchmen is more akin to getting some of the current talent to write something like oh I don't know 'Tales from The Hoop' or 'Halo Jones - Highskool in The Hoop' or some such. This is more like that animated Wachmen Comic they made (don't think that could have been a success as it wasn't followed up as I recall.) Whatever you think of it, it in no way diminishes the original.

Don't forget that collecting the stuff in trade is, in a different, way tampering with the original. Reprinting that trade is keeping it accessible to others and putting, aside elitism about folks who prefer colour comics being somehow inferior (look I don't get it either but its difficult to impose my views on other folks) its a similar thing. Reformating a tale to try to give it as wide an audience as possible.

Rebellion, like DC are a business and as such will try to exploit their properties in ways they believe have value (commercial that is).

Jim_Campbell

  • 2000AD Creator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 11871
  • Letterer to the Stars! (and PJ)
    • View Profile
    • deviantArt Gallery
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #16 on: 29 October, 2017, 04:33:28 pm »
it's a book you don't have to buy that has zero effect on the original version.

And you could say the exact same thing about Before Watchmen.

Yes, you could. But that doesn't make this the same as Before Watchmen, which you well know and your pedantry here is only intended to disguise the weakness of your point.

Who appointed you gatekeeper of who does or doesn't get to enjoy Halo Jones? What qualifies you to make judgements on the critical faculties of people you've never met?

Your point is still bollocks and I'm disappointed but unsurprised that you've chosen to double down on the stupidity and elitism rather than just step back, take a deep breath, and acnowledge that "artistic vandalism" is a ludicrous way to describe this.
Eagle Award Nominated Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Jimmy Baker's Assistant

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 912
    • View Profile
    • Massacre For Boys
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #17 on: 29 October, 2017, 04:43:28 pm »

Rebellion, like DC are a business and as such will try to exploit their properties in ways they believe have value (commercial that is).

True enough, and it must be somewhat difficult to keep endlessly rehashing the same four Alan Moore books so as to keep the income stream alive. Personally I believe the better option would have been to give Moore & Gibson the rights to Halo and let them finish it. But that ship has sailed.

Jimmy Baker's Assistant

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 912
    • View Profile
    • Massacre For Boys
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #18 on: 29 October, 2017, 04:44:53 pm »

Your point is still bollocks and I'm disappointed but unsurprised that you've chosen to double down on the stupidity and elitism rather than just step back, take a deep breath, and acnowledge that "artistic vandalism" is a ludicrous way to describe this.

Same old abusive nonsense, although at least you haven't demanded an apology yet.

JOE SOAP

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 14450
  • Enquiry Agent
    • View Profile
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #19 on: 29 October, 2017, 04:45:34 pm »
Personally I believe the better option would have been to give Moore & Gibson the rights to Halo and let them finish it.

Can't just do it for them and not everyone else.


Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12527
    • View Profile
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #20 on: 29 October, 2017, 05:01:35 pm »
Personally I believe the better option would have been to give Moore & Gibson the rights to Halo and let them finish it.

Can't just do it for them and not everyone else.

This is always the trouble with calling for creators to get properties back. In an ideal world that's a fine ideal. The trouble is it would probably (kill off) 2000ad and thus a source of good creators getting an audience to support creator owned ventures. Its the same with DC and Marvel. It feels simplistic to label them the villians for keeping rights and having house characters, this provides a solid backbone for the industry and its talent.

Image shows that the right book can work and some have real success with creators own works, for which they own the rights. Dave Sim and other pioneers did likewise. More often though the creators who have that success have made a name for themselves with the corporate houses (big or small). Shops and the market place depend on these piublishers too.

So for the moment and I'd imagine sometime to come - speaking from my stand point of utter ignorance I accept - the industry needs the balance it currently has for all sides. To sustain that publishing houses, be it the giants like Marvel and DC and their bigger corporate owners, or the little fish like Rebellion need a business model that enables them to be sustainable. That includes retaining rights.

Is it perfect, no, are they perfect, no. Is it what we got and until change happens over a period of time - yep so idealised stamping of feet actually dreams of a world that isn't realistic. Trying to change things, sure, but folks need to accept that will take time and a shift in the market place that doesn't seem to be coming in a hurry.

TordelBack

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 23224
  • Thunder Chops is dragged off, gnashing...
    • View Profile
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #21 on: 29 October, 2017, 05:18:58 pm »
Just to clarify a bit, 'twas I introduced 'artistic vandalism' into this discussion, not JBA, and while I was using hyperbole for dramatic effect, it's not far from how I feel about it: colour art is great (look at Frazer Irving, J. H. Williams or D'Israeli, like bathing your eyeballs in joy), but even the best colouring job on top of art intended to be B&W is always a backwards step: it obscures, distorts and misrepresents the original work. Especially so when that work is close to the apogee of B&W art, as Gibson's Halo Jones definitely is. Hence, a somewhat exaggerated accusation of vandalism. 

However, as always I actually take the Raymond Chandler position on adaptations: the originals are still on my shelf. And if colorised work draws in a new reader, or gives added pleasure to an old one, great.

Jimmy Baker's Assistant

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 912
    • View Profile
    • Massacre For Boys
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #22 on: 29 October, 2017, 06:08:35 pm »
However, as always I actually take the Raymond Chandler position on adaptations: the originals are still on my shelf. And if colorised work draws in a new reader, or gives added pleasure to an old one, great.

The accusation of elitism did sting a bit, so perhaps you have a point on this.

Jim_Campbell

  • 2000AD Creator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 11871
  • Letterer to the Stars! (and PJ)
    • View Profile
    • deviantArt Gallery
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #23 on: 29 October, 2017, 06:24:55 pm »

Same old abusive nonsense, although at least you haven't demanded an apology yet.

A car is bigger than a chair. A mountain is bigger than a chair. Because you can say the same thing about a mountain and a car, clearly these things are the same. Or can you genuinely not see what rhetorical nonsense that is? As Colin notes: Rebellion aren't publishing Halo Jones prequels, they aren't commissioning new creators to produce Books 4-9, they aren't folding Halo Jones into the Dredd universe, so suggesting equivalence between this new edition and DC's Watchmen shenanigans is obviously rubbish.

You can continue to double-down on this, because you're a grumpy old contrarian with a pathological inability to modify your position once you've taken it, or you can take a step back and just concede that that was a stupid comparison. It's entirely up to you. Or, and I freely admit this is a possibility, I've misread/misunderstood your post and if you [i[weren't[/i] saying that, I'll happily re-consider if you'd like to clarify. 
Eagle Award Nominated Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

IndigoPrime

  • Administrator
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7017
    • View Profile
    • http://www.craiggrannell.com
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #24 on: 29 October, 2017, 06:56:06 pm »
Bloody Rebellion, taking advantage of one of their most popular stories and making an edition that will bring it to a new range of readers, potentially bringing in profits that will enable the company to commission more new comic art from a number of budding comics creators. Those bastards.

(As for colouring, weren't a few of the pages coloured at the time anyway, for centre spreads and back pages, or am I imagining things? EDIT: Apparently not. I thought I saw a coloured book III back page during a recent Prog org. Must have misremembered covers or something.)
« Last Edit: 29 October, 2017, 07:03:15 pm by IndigoPrime »

TordelBack

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 23224
  • Thunder Chops is dragged off, gnashing...
    • View Profile
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #25 on: 29 October, 2017, 07:15:39 pm »
The opening Hoop centre-splash of Book 1 was coloured, IIRC.

Frank

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7181
    • View Profile
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #26 on: 29 October, 2017, 07:18:16 pm »
... Rebellion aren't publishing Halo Jones prequels, they aren't commissioning new creators to produce Books 4-9, they aren't folding Halo Jones into the Dredd universe, so suggesting equivalence between this new edition and DC's Watchmen shenanigans is obviously rubbish.

He was responding to the point that he doesn't have to buy it*. He was saying that, in that respect (but no other), it's a bit like the reaction to Beyond Watchmen. Everyone was free to not buy it, yet we all had a wee moan about it anyway.

It's only like Beyond Watchmen in that respect, but that's how metaphors work. If you couldn't say one thing was like another unless they were like each other in every respect, then the only suitable subject of similes would be same sex twins and Adele songs.

You understand all that, yet continue to make your ridiculous point in the same shrill, emotionally incontinent, and personally abusive manner. None of this matters.


* I don't agree with him, by the way.

jacob g

  • Member
  • Sentient Tea Bot
  • **
  • Posts: 259
  • l'chaim fatass
    • View Profile
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #27 on: 29 October, 2017, 07:25:21 pm »
I think if we can live with constantly reprinted coloured version of V for Vendetta we can live with "new" coloured Halo Jones.
margaritas ante porcos

Jim_Campbell

  • 2000AD Creator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 11871
  • Letterer to the Stars! (and PJ)
    • View Profile
    • deviantArt Gallery
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #28 on: 29 October, 2017, 07:54:03 pm »
I'll take no lectures on what is and isn't acceptable from someone who badgered a creator into posting about something deeply personal and private with their incessant speculative posts, thank you very much. Wherever the moral high ground is, it's not where Frank is standing.
Eagle Award Nominated Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Jimmy Baker's Assistant

  • Member
  • Prog Stacking Droid
  • ***
  • Posts: 912
    • View Profile
    • Massacre For Boys
Re: Whole load of bits from London MCM - inc new printing of Charley's War
« Reply #29 on: 29 October, 2017, 08:04:05 pm »
I think if we can live with constantly reprinted coloured version of V for Vendetta we can live with "new" coloured Halo Jones.

That is a good point. Will be interesting to see how Gibson reacts to this announcement.* If he's okay with the new colouring then basically I have to concede there's no problem.

Had forgotten, until ebay reminded me, that there was a Quality Comics version, so it has already been done once before. Although that was apparently terrible.

*I presume Moore won't react at all.